Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Rich, lean, no in-between

first let me say this. I know some of you dislike me because i've posted so often about problems i'm having. Thats fine, but all i ask is for some serious replies. If my posts bother you please don't read them and reply with insults. i'm simply trying to get help that i need very badly. thank you.

now, as i said recently i found that problem i was having with running rich which happened to be the carb vent tube which on the california evap models goes to a valve that opens when you start the bike. I disconnected it and used a piece of fuel line that just hangs down to by pass the valve which apparently isn't opening all the way. 100 miles later not a trace of soot. And this with having put my shims back on which i had removed when it was sooting the plugs. However, today all of a sudden it developed a hesitation when i whack the throttle open. It happens only sligtly on the street but badly when in steady cruise on the freeway. Then it's not a hesitation but the exact same symptom as you get when you first start running out of gas. It cts then goes randomly. It's not the tank breather, i checked all the rubber and even tried the WD40 trick to check for vaccum leaks. Switched plugs, checked the plug wires at the plugs and coils, (and they are new nology coils and wires) removed the slides twice and checked needles for straigness and both times was VERY carefull to get the diaphrams back on right and checked them for holes/tears. removed the petcock fuel line and turned it on with a container below it to see if it was flowing strong. it was. And the plugs are now lean looking. the center porcelin in snow white and there's no soot except the usual slight bit on the edge of the threads.

And heres another hint......i can be at freeway speeds and it's doing this badly, then gun it and under wot accelleration it doesn't do it. Seems like it happens at about mid throttle either at steady cruise or when whacking the throttle from low to midway, the latter being a slight hesitation.

I just don't know what to do with this bike at this point. can't sell it like this but i can't ride it either. So if anyone has any ideas please share, but those who want to insult me i'm asking you PLEASE refrain.

Daz,
That sounds similar to the problem I was having before I put on the new coils.
I only have about 300 miles on them & the problem has gone away.
But I still think I might have a CDI going bad.
That is just based on what I am reading on different forums.
I did try a new CDI & I still had the problem though not as bad.
I am now running the original CDI with new coils & so far it is alright.
I just put some fresh Dino oil in,filled the tank with gas & added stabil.
Went for a 15 mile ride.
The bike ran great.
It is now covered in the Garage for a while with a trickle charger on it.
Wish I had a good answer for you.
I am going to have some Coronas now.
You got me hooked on them.

Daz, first everyone here benifits from the collective knowledge of it's members. If you have a problem and finally figure it out when we can't, then we learn from your trial and errors. Second the guys are just busting your chops and having fun. I know it's frustrating to have a downed bike and believe me the other members know it too. Now to get back to your problem: 1) You have solved your Over rich problem. 2)Now go back to the throttle position chart that Dinq posted for us and make note of where you are experiencing the difficulty. Try working on that area and see if you can locate the problem......And as an example of the fellowship between all members if you lived in Oklahoma, I would not mind using my spare time to help you track down the problem.......Angelis

Thatsnjust it....i HAVE worked on the area that should be suspect and everything else i could think of. Thats why i posted, cuz believe me i didn't want to ! It's gotta be something leaning it out but for god's sake, i just got done finding a problem that had it running rich no matter how low i took the jetting, and it ran great. now it's set as rich as it ever been and it's lean ! I couldn't recreate this scenario in my worse nightmare ! The problem must be an overall (both cyl.) lean condition since both plugs look lean and the hesitation AFAIK is a symptom of running lean. But with no apparent air leaks i'm not sure what it would be. i suppose i'll try hooking up the evap and see if it then starts running rich again. Maybe somehow that fix WASN'T.

heres a question.....on the bikes with no Ca. EVAP on them, does the T fitting on the float vent tube nhave a hose on it, and if so does it just hang down as a drain or if not where does it attach to?

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heres a question.....on the bikes with no Ca. EVAP on them, does the T fitting on the float vent tube nhave a hose on it, and if so does it just hang down as a drain or if not where does it attach to?

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We have no hoses or T fitting at all on the float bowls of the non-Ca carbs. Just a nipple on the bottom of the carb float bowls and the drain screws in the bottom sides of the float bowls. We put an empty cat food can under the carbs and turn the little allen screw out. It just runs straight out of the bottom of the carbs into the can. No nothing there.

Are you sure Pat? The carb diagram for all models shows vent pipe with a T fitting just like mine. Look at the exploded view at bikbandit. And the guy who did the instructions for EVAP removal said when he plugged that hose off the bowls over-ran and gas spilled all over the bike. Stop confusing me !:)

now, i just took the bike for a ride with the EVAP hose back on and it doesn't do it !But this leaves me where i was before and in a while i'm sure my plugs will be black again. Plus whats very odd is that for 70 miles with just a drain hose hanging instead of the EVAP hose, it never did it. At 70 miles after i hooked up that hose is when it started. the only thing i can imagine, and if it's the case i'll be ok, is that somehow the cannister became full of gas causing the richness and venting the bowls aided the bike in getting a less rich condition. Then over the course of the 70 miles the cannister drained and the bike no longer pulled extra fuel from there and then became lean. A VERY wild guess i suppose, and i really don't know if thats even possible. In any case i'm still living in bummedville.

Daz...I don't think folks should be giving you a hard time but you exhaust us with your problems. Why? Because you dismiss sound advice. These bikes are not that difficult to work on.
I offered you a days peek at your problems as a fellow Triumph owner and you did not reply. Others have stated you need help..just another set of eyes if you will.
Don't be such a glutton for punishement.
I have a Cali bike and I'll match it up against all other TBAs in the country...except the ones I have worked on with the same stupid aggrevating problems you have.
From your SIG I can see you have problems. Unfortunately you can't go half way with the Cali bikes. Its all or nothing.
You complain of lack of power. I can fix that. You complain with vibration. I can fix that. Believe me..my bike was crap from the factory. While my schedule is now booked until jan '07 I can refer you to my partner. He knows Triumphs and yours should be a piece of cake to work out all the bugs. You shouldn't be thinking of selling your ride because you can't figure out these problems. Triumphs are wonderful motorcycles but they are NOT boring, non-inspiring Japanese copy cat bikes. They need TLC to make them reliable if your so decide to modify them. Please think about it.

I appriciate it, but while i may sound like i know very little with all the questions i ask, i'm really not nearly as inept as i may sound. I'm not a bike tech by any means, but i've spent my life troubleshooting all kinds of things and i think i'm somewhat good at it because i'm the guy all my friends and family come to when they need most anything repaired. the point isn't that i'm trying to impress you, but that this problem isn't as simple as you may think. no one here or at a number of other forums including non triumph bike forums has been able to come up with any ideas i haven't already tried.

I appriciate the offer, but i can assure you that while you my know your stuff, and i'm sure you do, i don't think either of us want to spend 10 hours tearing things apart only to find it's been a waste of your time and mine. Just to even KNOW if anything tried has worked requires 70-100 miles of riding. So in other words, the logistics of working out this problem in a few hours at your garage just aren't possible. I know i won't change your mind that i'm being stubborn, but it's like the saying goes..."i guess you had to be there".

anyways, all that aside, i already have it corraled in knowing it's got to do with the EVAP system. So now it's just a matter of nailing the exact flaw. I've come all this way and trust me, i WILL get to the bottom of it. All i ask is help when i have questions that will save me time in figuring them out myself. I don't require that anyone reads my posts, and if it IS exausting, no offence meant, don't read them. I mean that literally with no mean spiritedness whatsoever. Unlike most people i ask questions that i know others probably are less likely or no more likely than i to know because i find that if you put it out there you at least have a chance someone will happen upon an idea that helps. Anyways, thanks for the offer, but i think i'm almost there.

very well then. But the offer still stands.

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first let me say this. I know some of you dislike me because i've posted so often about problems i'm having. Thats fine, but all i ask is for some serious replies. If my posts bother you please don't read them and reply with insults. i'm simply trying to get help that i need very badly. thank you.

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First let me say that everytime you have asked for help with your multiple issues with your bike you have received many serious responses from members willing to help and they have, in my opinion, offered some very sound advice.

But when you get defensive or overly sensitive and begin prefacing your post with a statememt such as the one above... this is where I feel the need to speak.
This type of statement can serve no other purpose than to bring on more of the types of comments you wish to avoid. I understand the frustration brought on by your situation but this is not the answer to your problem.

Furthermore, you have had more than one offer from members who are willing to take their time to help you fix some of your problems. The members of this board have gone far above the call to try and help you resolve your issues.

As a member of this board, you should feel free to ask for or offer any help needed but I feel you should also be respectful of guidance and advice offered and be a bit more tolerant of others who may be making light of your situation.

In closing I'll say that I sincerly hope you resolve your issues with your bike and are able to accumulate many trouble free miles of riding... all I ask in the meantime is that you lighten up a bit. ?

Lighten up? I think you misunderstand. I've recieved plenty of good advice which i'm gratefull for, and i'm not talking about that. But when someone replies for the sole purpose of saying insulting things like "why don't you stop moaning about your problems and just ride the bike", how in god's name do I become the ahole here? Amazing, just amazing. All i'm trying DESPERATLY to do is get a serious answer for a problem thats ruining my bikeing experience and instead of friendly helpful fellow bikers trying to help i get insulted. then when i say anything back i'm the jerk. Funny how this doesn't happen in my personal life but it happens online where people feel they can insult you while hiding behing the anonymity of the web. i'm not stupid and i'm not young and clueless and i know the difference between lighthearted jabs and mean spirited insults. Thats simply an excuse used when i reply back in kind to make ME look like the bad guy when all i ever do is talk bikes.

As for being respectful of guidence and advice given.........show me ONE post where i wasn't. i'm not talking about insulting replies, but honest advice given to help. Show me ONE.

Well.... so much for lightening up huh?

you still don't get it. try talking to the person who throws the first punch, not to the one who throws none till assaulted. So simple yet so hard to understand i guess. by the way, i wouldn't call your post light either.

No.. I understand perfectly.. it's you I believe who are missing the point.
I simply ask that you refrain from prefacing your posts in such a manner.

This is a public forum and as such posters are sometimes open to ridicule. If this is something you don't deal with well then don't make posts that will open you up to their remarks.

And while I'm sure you'll have something to say in retaliation to this post as well, I can assure you that it will be my last on this subject.Just please bear in my mind that the next thread you start with a statement such as the one above will be edited to it's basic request for help.

And that was the "light" version of my response..

Daz, I'v offered advice to you from time to time and recieved same from you. What I think chy's point is, I may be wrong. I often am. Is that you seem to have become so frustrated in your attempts at reaching mechanical perfection, you may have lost your perspective on motorcycling in general. If you haven't read Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, pick it up. If you have, perhaps a second read is in need. I'm not taking a jab at you. You just seem to have lost any joy and pleasure in riding your bike. Which is the only reason I own a bike. Sometimes you have to just walk away from a problem for a bit to see it. I, being a mechanic in daily life often find that a problem with a customer's vehicle is often very hard to find at first. If you search too hard sometimes, what is right in front of you is often overlooked. With my bike at least. If she gets me there and back again. I generally feel its been a good day. Im not hiding behind anominity on the net. If you venture to my little corner of NC, Im the only one in town with a triumph. Well One of the new one's anyway. Here's a bit of advice a customer of mine used to give me when he saw that I was frustrated. " Drive slow and drink alot of water". Didn't help me solve the problem. But it did give me a good laugh. He's past on to the great beyond now. But I still reflect on his words in times like these.

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daz, lots of good advice from your posts. no one hates you. i could rebuild your house and your truck. i don't know squat about the bike i have rode for 8500 miles. a friend of mine showed me the manual and how to do a few things to the bike and is going to help me with a few of your post. two heads are better than one. you may have missed something or are over looking something. take his offer. it could make your life easier. friend

Hi Dazco,
I had a simmilar hesitation and I found I needed too resync my carbs. Good luck

Well, arguing aside, it's done. It was indeed the evap system and after 120 miles today the plugs look perfect and the bike runs as it always did. Vibes are also almost gone. Whatever that was the fuel problem must have amplified it.

Seems greybeard nailed it long ago when he mentioned the cannisters being full due to overfilling the tank. But i couldn't find a way to empty them and apparenty plugging off the nipples wasn't enough to remove it from play. Googling it i found lots of info on this malady especially with cars where it's apparently very common. Once i ran it for about 70 miles this week with the vent hose detached apparently they finally dried up and all is back to normal even with my shims back on the needles.

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the plugs look perfect and the bike runs as it always did. Vibes are also almost gone.

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well, this is excellent news!

ride on...ride on...

Yes it is, thanks. And i WILL, every chance i get. (forgot how fun it is to ride it when it's running right)

Daz- glad you figured it out. Bothers me that you would want to get rid of your bike whenever a difficult to diagnose problem pops up. I think I posted on your vibration thread that it was likely a small problem, you just had to find it.
I knew nothing about the innards of my bike when I bought it, but absolutely refuse to take it in for service or anything. Even something as simple as having tires mounted and balanced, the only time someone else touched my bike, was screwed up royally (I've since bought a truing stand, and now true and balance myself). I know what its like to have something unresolved, I can't sleep til its right.
Whenever I run into a seemingly insurmountable problem, like when my engine made that horrible hammering sound after I adjusted my valves, or the terrible vibration in the twisties, I remind myself that these bikes are easy to work on, and they are bullet proof. There is nothing like the sense of self-satisfaction you get from doing your own work, and finding/resolving problems.
Just got in from a trip to Barber Museum in Birmingham. 600+- miles in rain, heat, and cold. Cruised a few hours 85 to 90mph. Easily hit 100 when I wanted to. Bike never missed a beat.

I agree......i don't trust the dealers either. I just know how that goes. especially today when all kinds of service is so unreliable and mechanics are either inexperienced or take no pride in thier work. But that aside even if i wanted to the nearest dealer is an hour away and if you make an appointment they tell you you may be there all day. and thats just for simple things. And i don't have anyone who can follow me there and bring me home then bring me back when it's done. At least no one i would want to put that on. So it's up to me. But i'll tell you this.......as torturous as this fiasco was i now know my bike like the back of my hand and i know the next time i have to troubleshoot it i'll be able to find the problem much quicker. Aside from engine internals i touched on just about every part of the bike in looking for the vibration and then the fuel problem. Not saying i'm glad to have gone thru this, but there is that one silver lining.

Very cool Daz.. glad you got it sorted out. Time for a road trip eh?

Thanks. Yes, even tho i ran thru a whole tank yesterday i'm itching for more. Gotta make up for all that time lost !

Ok Daz, you have the problem solved, now post it to the tech vault.......Angelis