 Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
The two are not remotely in the same category for one thing.
Wearing a seat belt in no way effects comfort or freedom whilst driving. Being entombed within a 2 ton steel/sheetmetal sedan on four wheels is indeed not remotely related to motorcycling. (IMHO)
Its the law in this state anyway. Thats why I wear it and force of habit.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12 |
I know this will not be a popular statement but here goes. Sometimes laws must be enacted to protect idiots from themselves. The helmet law is such a case in point.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98 |
So everyone is getting sick of the helmet discussion huh? Better put in my two cents... When I took my MSF course, my instructor said one (of several) thing(s) that resonated with me, that is: "No one plans on being in an accident, so before you head out, ask yourself if you are wearing everything you would want if you were in an accident." Well, that is your decision, but for as me, I'll take the helmet.
~Topher
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
The discussion should not be whether it is good or bad, you shoudl or shouldn't wear a helmet or a seat belt, but rather do you want that choice or not.
I dont ride without a helmet. I don't drive without my seatbelt on. However, it should be my choice, not goverment mandated.
Laws should be in place for public safety, not individual safety. For example drunk driving laws. They protect others from getting hurt. Not wearing a helmet or a seat belt does not prevent others from getting hurt. They do not prevent accidents.
Soren
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
Quote:
I know this will not be a popular statement but here goes. Sometimes laws must be enacted to protect idiots from themselves. The helmet law is such a case in point.
So, you unequivocably would refer to all those that do not wear a helmet as "idiots"? Thats a very bold and stupid statement. it reeks of "stupidity" on a high level.
Lots of people smoke fully aware of the risks and the denigration to their health. They are in many cases doctors, lawyers, dentists, professionally educated and fully aware yet they choose to smoke. They are not any more idiots than a motorcyclist who "chooses" to opt out of a helmet when he or she sees fit.
Here's to all the "idiot" safety geeks and nazis out there who hold this opinion. I raise my glass to you and invite you to kiss my nether region in full daylight in a public forum.
I'll choose to be free as I see fit as long as the law allows. My rosy pink Irish keister awaits your attention.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
I know this will not be a popular statement but here goes. Sometimes laws must be enacted to protect idiots from themselves. The helmet law is such a case in point.
I find that most of these "We know what's good for you" sort of laws are put together by clueless politicians who are using them to either gain votes or get extra cash from special interests.
Quote:
Wearing a seat belt in no way effects comfort or freedom whilst driving
Unfortunately, that is not always true, but they are getting better. The OL had a terrible time with seatbelt vs boob interference problems until we got the new Dodge with an adjustable shoulder belt anchor. I have an ex who was an even 5 ft tall. In here case, it was shoulder belt vs neck. If she ever got into a crash, it would have been really bad. Just driving a half hour would start sawing through her skin.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
Lots of people smoke fully aware of the risks and the denigration to their health. They are in many cases doctors, lawyers, dentists, professionally educated and fully aware yet they choose to smoke. They are not any more idiots than a motorcyclist who "chooses" to opt out of a helmet when he or she sees fit.
Yes they are.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
The helmet battle always seems to degenerate into a "I know you are but what am I!" fest.
To those of you who know better than those of us who don't, thank you. Your words of wisdom will forever inspire us.
Now give it a rest. This ain't the lounge.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 299
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 299 |
Quote:
I know this will not be a popular statement but here goes.
And here's another one . . . The "choice" everyone loves to hang onto in these ramblings is not "free" by any means. Take any study (like this one) and you see you're actually being very selfish when you decide to ride unhelmeted. The fact is that choice makes living more expensive for the wise/unwise rest of us. So don't dare tell folks that your 'freedom choice' doesn't affect them.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
Quote:
Quote:
I know this will not be a popular statement but here goes.
And here's another one . . . The "choice" everyone loves to hang onto in these ramblings is not "free" by any means. Take any study (like this one) and you see you're actually being very selfish when you decide to ride unhelmeted. The fact is that choice makes living more expensive for the wise/unwise rest of us. So don't dare tell folks that your 'freedom choice' doesn't affect them.
I already told em. I'll tell em again in the state of Arizona until the proverbial cows come home. As long as its legal to ride with or without I will make my decision as I see frggin fit on any given day. Safety nazis be doggoned to heck and back.
In other words. Tuff Shiite.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179 |
Interesting article. One must remember all data presented was for both, a combination of helmeted and un-helmeted motorcycle accidents. The Physician's Assisstant's (PE) conclusions are based like many statistics, to meet the agenda of the author. It's strange he chose not to break down what numbers he did have into helmeted and un-helmeted categories in the tables.
I don't remember which post it was, but one of my favorites was the increase of head injuries in Florida of 67% since repealing the helmet law. At least they were honest enough to say motorcycle ownership increased by %89 percent, and failed to mention the delta of ", negating the obvious push for reinstating the law.
"Selfishness" is one conclusion based on a very loose interpretation of skewed data. I for one 'choose' not to accept this interpretation.
My favorite quote from a friend of mine was, "98% of all statistics are useless." Steve McQueen cool double entendre.
Additionally, please divert my tax dollars from a variety of US social welfare programs and use them for medical costs of North Carolina riders, helmeted or un-helmeted (remember the Physicians Assiant does not clarify).
The guilt trip doesn't work. I tried it on my daughter when she was six and she saw right through it.
Evan Williams sure does make a good bourbon, wish this site had a spell-checker.
Regards,
Tom
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105 |
Whitzoo-
Here on Fort Irwin, soldiers are required to sign a statement of understanding that they'll be "not in the line of duty" if they get in an accident without full PPE.
'04 Black Speedy/BUB exhaust/AI removed/UNI Filter
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
I'd like to see where those stats came from... It's not that I don't believe you, but you know what they say about statistics. I mean there are probably people who wreck on some back road, their head (with helmet) hits the pavement and they get up and ride away. It never gets reported or added to some tally somewhere, and nobody is the wiser. Whereas if they didn't have a lid, they'd be in an ambulance getting added to the other tally.
These guys had a publication listing the findings of some studies that were less than politicaly popular. http://www.mmaweb.org/
If they still have copies, I'm sure they would be happy to send you one.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Okay... I know that everyone is talking about there right to chose and all... but I'm just curious... how many of you who ride without helmets wear your seatbelts?? Why???
And, how is that relevent? Seatbelts and helmet laws are about as similar as apples and dildoes. Being strapped into a big steel box (or small tin one if you favour cheap imports) is an entirely different situation.
As was mentioned earlier, the stats for deaths "caused" by not having a helmet on are often misleading. When Joe Nutso crashes at 180 MPH on his banzai special, the helmet nazis will list cause of death to be massive head injuries and never mention that he bled to death through having been ripped in half or that his rib cage was completely flattened by a passing truck.
anicdotal "data" is also useless. The nooby that fell off his bike whilst parking and the scratches on his lid "proves" that it saved his life is not evidence. It is quite likely that, without the added weight of the helmet, his head would never have touched the ground.
For each of these, there is an equally unlikely situation where a helmet proved to cause more harm than good. For example, some years ago, a rider with a fullface helmet decided to bend down anf pick up a newspaper without getting off his bike. He'd done it dozens of times, but this time, he lost his balance. He fell over, the bike fell on him, and he was still bent in a way that he couldn't get out from under it. Also, the end of the hendlebar went inside his lid and pulled the chinstrap so tight that it strangled him. Had he been lidless, he would probably have survived with little more than scrapes and bruises and a sore back, but this is more a case for thinking about what you are doing than for never wearing a helmet.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
The main problem is that no matter how accurate any set of statistics is, you're still playing the lottery on which statistic you will fall into if and when you crash. Even if it was proven that helmets cause 90% of injuries in a head on, you could be that 10%...
Point is, this dead horse is beaten so flat it is unrecognizable.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 177
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 177 |
I have only one reaction to the helmet debate. When I was in my 20's the only time I used the helmet is when I went on the Air Force base, (law), I also got the bike up to 120 mph, went from asphalt to RAIN GRROVES. Talk about at thrill. I'm 50 yo, I dont want my 1st accident to by my last. It is a choice. Farrrrrr tooooo many as^&%#s' on the roads. "I did not see him" Also must say, would not want my coconut to survive and be a quadriplegic. Oh well going out for a ride now. See you!  
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
True, but the main thing is that you should be allowed to pick which set of risks you want to take. I know much better than some idiot politician who never even sat on a bike in his life what my riding conditions are, so I should be the one to decide how best to deal with them.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Oh I agree. But that is still the problem and it goes for both sides. They are picking one set of statistics, we may want to pick another...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 250
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 250 |
It's not Pennsylvaina yet. But since Big Bens accident they are trying to get the helment law reinstated.
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Point is, this dead horse is beaten so flat it is unrecognizable.
yeah. we made jerky out of it.
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 Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626 |
A false sense of security is the only possible danger I can see from wearing a helmet. What I don't like is a government
saying 'We have this law to protect you against your own bad decisions, but it's okay, it's for your own good.' Maybe
the decision the law makes for you is a good one, but it sets a precedent for another law that may also be a good decision. The two examples I'm thinking of are; wear your seatbelt and wear a helmet. The problem is by the time a stupid law is made, there are too many precedents for it and we're stuck with it. I can make my own good decisions, and if I make bad ones, I will live, or die, by them.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
How bout the "caution: contents hot" on a coffee cup? Seems silly, but someone would (and has) take someone to court over a burnt groin from spilled coffe in traffic if it wasn't there.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Motorcycling without a Helmet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
Point is, this dead horse is beaten so flat it is unrecognizable.
yeah. we made jerky out of it.
Looks like we're boiling the bones for soup now.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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