 HD vs RE
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Joined: Sep 2015
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3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Sep 2015
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Road Rash Heals. Freckles Grow Back. Ride
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
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Quote:
It's bad enough that Harley-Davidson is in the midst of a two-year slide in U.S. motorcycle sales, but it may have a new headache to contend with. India-based motorcycle maker Royal Enfield is introducing a new big motorcycle to the Indian market, a move that could lead to Harley-Davidson losing its dominance overseas.
The people who might be considering buying a H-D might be swayed by Enfield?
Really?
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"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,066 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,066 Likes: 1 |
Yeah, the Indian made RE's are pretty flimsy looking, and made out of old melted down cans and shopping carts. But the pot metal/aluminum/copper alloy has great corrosion resistance.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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The new Harley 500/750 Street models were brought out primarily to compete with lower cost bikes in foreign markets, the new 650 Enfield will hurt H.D. in India. The bigger Harleys are very highly taxed abroad and are only bought by the affulent in India, thus their sales will not be impacted nearly as much as the"little" Harley's.
Tin Man 2
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
The REs are not gonna be a problem for any other bike makers over here unless the quality is greatly improved from their previous offerings. Sure, their price point is gonna be attractive, but that just puts them in the same category as cheap Chineese knockoffs, where available. Japanese bikes are just too darn good to get knocked off by a cheap Indian bike, and a person who WANTS to buy a HD is not gonna be tempted by a RE. The bottom line is quality, quality, Quality, regardless of how the "Wallmart" sensibility affects U.S. customers. There's a big difference between people looking to buy a cheap big screen tv for $500 and a motorcycle purchaser looking to drop 6 to 8 thousand dollars for a product. They're gonna sell a lot of the new 650s in India and that's it.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
The REs are not gonna be a problem for any other bike makers over here unless the quality is greatly improved from their previous offerings. Sure, their price point is gonna be attractive, but that just puts them in the same category as cheap Chineese knockoffs, where available. Japanese bikes are just too darn good to get knocked off by a cheap Indian bike, and a person who WANTS to buy a HD is not gonna be tempted by a RE. The bottom line is quality, quality, Quality, regardless of how the "Wallmart" sensibility affects U.S. customers. There's a big difference between people looking to buy a cheap big screen tv for $500 and a motorcycle purchaser looking to drop 6 to 8 thousand dollars for a product. They're gonna sell a lot of the new 650s in India and that's it.
They may sell ok in places like Thailand too, IF as you say ,the quality is there.The 500s are made out of metal and FEEL well made but if they start leaking oil or having relability problems that'd be the end of the road.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,707 Likes: 3
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,707 Likes: 3 |
they are going to sell a bunch here in the states as well, the build quality is better than it was in the early 2000's
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
The inclusion of one KEY word in the following opening line of that article...
"Earlier this month, Royal Enfield introduced in India its first big twin-engine motorcycle."
...belies the accuracy of much of what that article supposes.
That key word being "big" of course, as Americans haven't considered ANY motorcycle as being "big" with an engine displacement of under 1000cc for at least three decades now. Hence, these new twin-cylinder 650cc Royal Enfields are NOT "big" motorcycles...at least not within the American lexicon.
And thus, and even though traditional H-D buyers MIGHT be "dying out", there will still always be a market for "big" motorcycles here in the land of "Bigger is Better" America.
And so, after reading that article's very first line, I pretty much took the rest of it and its prognostications with the proverbial grain of salt.
(...in other words, I think Rich's earlier take on this about the American motorcycle market was spot on)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 874
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jan 2005
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They better have good customer support and a parts network.Nothing like importing something nobody knows how to work on.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
The new Harley 500/750 Street models were brought out primarily to compete with lower cost bikes in foreign markets, the new 650 Enfield will hurt H.D. in India. The bigger Harleys are very highly taxed abroad and are only bought by the affulent in India, thus their sales will not be impacted nearly as much as the"little" Harley's.
You know what, I'd completely forgotten about those !!
Probably what I had in mind was perceived difference between the two manufacturers :
H-D - all whizz bang and hi tech first world
Enfield - sold off by us Brits in 1949 and often considered to be made out of washing machine parts and recycled tuna cans.
I've mentioned before I bought a new Bullet about year or so ago, it was genuinely a nice little bike.
Everything was steel and it really wasn't finished off bad at all but maybe that was because it was an export bike.
I'll be polite and say that I've heard the quality of their home market bikes are not of the ... ahem ... same standard.
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"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,251 Likes: 13
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,251 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
They better have good customer support and a parts network.Nothing like importing something nobody knows how to work on.
Exactly, like a Triumph 
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
...
Probably what I had in mind was perceived difference between the two manufacturers :
H-D - all whizz bang and hi tech first world
Enfield - sold off by us Brits in 1949 and often considered to be made out of washing machine parts and recycled tuna cans.
Hmmmm...funny Ade, but THIS might be the very first time I've ever read or heard anybody put the words "whizz bang hi tech" and "Harley-Davidson" in the same sentence, if ya know what I mean?! 
(...unless you were specifically and solely referencing H-D's recent new line of those mid-sized water-cooled V-Twins...but then again, even those bikes aren't exactly cutting edge technology, ya know)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 728 Likes: 1
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2005
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Maybe RE is going after the Yamaha XS 650 market that challenged Triumph back in 1968 thru 1979. 
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Quote:
...
Probably what I had in mind was perceived difference between the two manufacturers :
H-D - all whizz bang and hi tech first world
Enfield - sold off by us Brits in 1949 and often considered to be made out of washing machine parts and recycled tuna cans.
Hmmmm...funny Ade, but THIS might be the very first time I've ever read or heard anybody put the words "whizz bang hi tech" and "Harley-Davidson" in the same sentence, if ya know what I mean?!
(...unless you were specifically and solely referencing H-D's recent new line of those mid-sized water-cooled V-Twins...but then again, even those bikes aren't exactly cutting edge technology, ya know)
Yeah, pretty much.
Brake down in a H-D and you need a 15yr old with a laptop.
Brake down in the wilds of nowhere on an Enfield and the village blacksmith will have you going again in no time.
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"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,666 Likes: 16
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,666 Likes: 16 |
I think in general motorcycle sales are down. The younger crowd really don't seem to have the two wheeled interest as in the past. The little bikes and hipsters seem to get along OK so Triumph in the US did well in 2016. They sold 13000 units in the US, the most ever in the history of Triumph according the the link. LinkTwo big dealers in the last 5 years around me closed. Not sure where they are selling them. If I do see a Triumph it is usually a Bonneville.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 797 Likes: 17
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 797 Likes: 17 |
The article is based on the market in India. I saw a couple of their bikes at the Chicago IMS show last year. They are not the quality build of a Triumph, but for the money I thought the were a good bike.
I had no idea they were such a huge company and so dominate in India. Cannot imagine Harleys would be that great on the roads there.
Road Rash Heals. Freckles Grow Back. Ride
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
The article is based on the market in India. I saw a couple of their bikes at the Chicago IMS show last year. They are not the quality build of a Triumph, but for the money I thought the were a good bike.
I had no idea they were such a huge company and so dominate in India. Cannot imagine Harleys would be that great on the roads there.
Yeah, probably not a Big Twin nor maybe even a Sportster, but the Harleys referenced by that article which evidently are selling a bit in India were the newer and smaller 500cc and 750cc water-cooled V-Twin Harleys, Bill.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Maybe RE is going after the Yamaha XS 650 market that challenged Triumph back in 1968 thru 1979.
Yeah Bob, good point.
As I recall, back in '68 and when Yamaha introduced their XS650, the price of one of those was about 2 to 3 hundred dollars less than what a new T120 Bonnie would cost.
(...and back when 2 to 3 hundred bucks was a lot of money)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
We didn't get the Yamaha 650 until 1970 as I recall but I could be wrong.I had a 1973 model.
Although their handling didn't seem as good out of the box as a Brit. bike, they were bullet-proof dependable, which the Triumphs,BSAs and Nortons of the time were not.
Enfield will need to be reliable if they wish to take on the current markers and they're not noted for reliability in their current form.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47 |
I'll report back if I see any in India either in a showroom or on the street, going there for the month of January.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6 |
You will probably see more 350cc Bullets than you can shake a stick at.
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"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374 |
A dealer near me just picked up the R.E. line, they didn't have a twin yet but the 500's looked like a nice bike. The dealer now handles Indian, Motus and R.E., so it's a great place to check out something a bit different.
Tin Man 2
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
I've owned an Indian Enfield 500 single...it was cheap to buy and run, dead simple to maintain and I enjoyed it.
But it wasn't a serious motorcycle.
True they use them a lot in India, but they break down a lot too....easy to fix usually but that's not the point.
I'd have another old one if it was cheap enough just to potter around on but I wouldn't spend serious money on a new twin...I'd rather have a real, practical motorcycle that is built from decent materials and will hang together for more than a tankful if petrol.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Or as the late Willie Rushton once said
" Never go in holiday anywhere they still point at aeroplanes."
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,399 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Or as the late Willie Rushton once said
" Never go in holiday anywhere they still point at aeroplanes."
There will be about 5 regular users on this site know who Willie Ruston is ... and that includes you and I 
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"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 374
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2014
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The new 500's are now a fairly modern design, they are even fuel injected now. No real comparison to the older model 500.
Tin Man 2
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Or as the late Willie Rushton once said
" Never go in holiday anywhere they still point at aeroplanes."
Oh c'mon, Alan ol' boy!
Now, when it comes to the subject of world traveling, wouldn't this "advice" be more than a little limiting?
I mean, how would YOU like it if, say, one of us YANKS would posit a thought such as, "Never go on vacation where they still spell words with that superfluous letter 'u'." ???
Uh-huh, SEE?! Not so FUNNY now, IS it!
(...well, at least I'll bet the British Tourism Bureau wouldn't care for it, anyway!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47 |
Quote:
Or as the late Willie Rushton once said
" Never go in holiday anywhere they still point at aeroplanes."
I did not know him by name but I am familiar with his actions and by his face. I read his wikipedia page noting many of the books that he authored but failed to see any about his travel adventures.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
If you think that's bad, try the works of Peter Tinniswood.
I'll just give you one quote concerning Belgians
" Eaters of horse flesh, they let us down in two world wars. They're hopeless at golf. They drive on the wrong side of the road, and they're forever yodelling about their blasted fiords and their loathsome fretwork egg-timers."
Oh and I'm off there tomorrow on the bike.
( and I like the Belgians)
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47 |
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,152 Likes: 12
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,152 Likes: 12 |
Quote:
The new 500's are now a fairly modern design, they are even fuel injected now. No real comparison to the older model 500.
fuel injected but still have a kick start. how exactly does that work? your battery is too weak to turn over the motor but has enough to fire the injectors and ignition?
or just there for looks.
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Quote:
Bon Voyage
Thank you....outside temperature forecast for tomorrow morning here?
-1 degree.
Brrr
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 514 Likes: 2
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 514 Likes: 2 |
Not heard his name for years, but seeing as i emigrated 37 yrs ago i do tend to forget things from way back.
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,175 Likes: 47 |
Quote:
If you think that's bad, try the works of Peter Tinniswood.
I'll just give you one quote concerning Belgians
" Eaters of horse flesh, they let us down in two world wars. They're hopeless at golf. They drive on the wrong side of the road, and they're forever yodelling about their blasted fiords and their loathsome fretwork egg-timers."
Oh and I'm off there tomorrow on the bike.
( and I like the Belgians)
Ah yes but they do have 180 brewers in the country which is almost a new one every second day of the year. 
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Yes, and I'm home now having done my best to sample them all.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: HD vs RE
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,193 Likes: 22 |
Er, breweries, not Belgians...that is.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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