 The problem is...
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A funny thing happened on the way to the recovery, motorcycles (and boats) missed the party. In 2008 the economy collapsed and the effect was devastating to the automobile market which fell over 30% in one year. Last year saw record new car sales and a fully recovered auto market but the motorcycle market has been stagnate for going on 9 years. I'm talking total sales over 600cc street bikes all brands. Why? In my opinion it's scooters. Enter the millennials that large generation who...
A: Don't want to work hard enough to earn the money required to purchase a real motorcycle (whatever brand)
B: Don't want to put in the effort required to learn to shift a motorcycle transmission and learn the skills needed for a bike capable of highway speeds.
C: Don't mind being seen on a PeeWee Herman scooter...no, I take that back because they always wear full face helmets even though their machine tops out at 35 miles per hour.
D: Are so dumb that they think a scooter is safer than a motorcycle. News flash you can get killed just walking across the street you don't need 2 wheels.
E: A real motorcycle requires one to get a real motorcycle license.
Bottom line is today the streets are literally crawling with cheap, slow, Chinese scooters ridden by 25 year olds still working part time at McDonalds hoping their state will double their minimum wage...and still living in mommy's house. Recognizing the problem Triumph and Harley Davidson have introduced good budget motorcycles but they don't stand a chance with millennials. Even Honda can't sell their scooters because no-name Chinese junk is good enough for this generation.
Last edited by outerbanks; 08/22/2017 10:36 PM.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: The problem is...
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Hey now, OB! Don't be so hard on those millennials out there, dude! 'Cause it appears most of 'em are at least smart enough to know that one would have a tough time texting while trying to operate a motorcycle, what with all that required constant gear-changing and all, and whereas so many of 'em apparently and unfortunately believe texting while driving a car with an automatic transmission is a snap. And so, can you really blame the constantly texting little millennials out there for their apparent reluctance to purchase a motorcycle?! I think not, right?!  (...and besides, I'm not so sure the idea of more of those preoccupied with texting little millennials out there on the road is such a good idea anyway...hell, maybe it's a GOOD thing more and more of 'em are forgoing getting their drivers licenses now days, and so unlike back when you and I couldn't WAIT to get ours when we turned 16)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: The problem is...
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You see the problem then Dwight and you're correct about many of them not even bothering to get a regular driver's license. Every kid I knew was at the DMV on their 16th birthday getting their license (freedom) as soon as possible. Years ago my daughter took her drivers test with our old Jeep Wrangler, her first car. She said the other kids in her class were amazed that she could drive a manual transmission much less learn to drive on one.
I know someone who just bought her 17 year old son a very clean one owner 2006 Mustang GT (automatic of course) in the hopes that it will encourage him to get off his ass and get his driver's license! This is the mentality of the generation that motorcycle manufacturers are trying to sell new bikes to. Seems pretty bleak. I guess their reality are computer games or something.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: The problem is...
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Quote:
You see the problem then Dwight and you're correct about many of them not even bothering to get a regular driver's license. Every kid I knew was at the DMV on their 16th birthday getting their license (freedom) as soon as possible. Years ago my daughter took her drivers test with our old Jeep Wrangler, her first car. She said the other kids in her class were amazed that she could drive a manual transmission much less learn to drive on one.
I know someone who just bought her 17 year old son a very clean one owner 2006 Mustang GT (automatic of course) in the hopes that it will encourage him to get off his ass and get his driver's license! This is the mentality of the generation that motorcycle manufacturers are trying to sell new bikes to. Seems pretty bleak. I guess their reality are computer games or something.
Yep.
I was just in L.A. last week to attend my best buddy's daughter's wedding in Santa Barbara. Beautiful ceremony, btw.
Well anyway, one of the stops I made while back in my old stomping grounds was at a classic m/c restoration shop located close to LAX...the Garage Company...
http://www.garagecompany.com/
And, while in conversation with the founder and owner of this concern, Yoshi Kosaka, he told me business wasn't going so well lately, and due to, as he said, "the kids just aren't getting into motorcycles like we did", and when he said "kids", he meant people under 40 years old.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: The problem is...
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"Hey now, OB! Don't be so hard on those millennials out there, dude!
'Cause it appears most of 'em are at least smart enough to know that one would have a tough time texting while trying to operate a motorcycle, what with all that required constant gear-changing and all,"
I read this and laughed. I live in a college town (A&M) and pulled up to a red light the other night behind one of these mindless snowflakes. He is sitting on a scooter and texting. The light turned green and he proceeded through the intersection while continuing to text with his right hand, driving with his left hand on the throttle while making a left turn. UNBELIEVABLE.
I am afraid he may not be long for this world.
Mark
College Station
13 America
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Re: The problem is...
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Don't be harshing on scooters too badly. My wife bought one soon after I bought my America. Then she quit riding it. So I stepped up to the chore - just to keep the carb clean, you understand. Then I bought one for myself, then I bought another one for her. So now we've got 3 of the little buggers in the garage. A Chinesium 150, a 50cc Ruckus and a 250 BIG Ruckus (mine). NOW you understand why my America still has less than 10K miles. 
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Re: The problem is...
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Good news is, they are not all spoiled brats. Out side of the city kids are still kids, mini bikes,go carts and the motorhead life style still exists in rural areas. At least here in Michigan it does.
Tin Man 2
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Re: The problem is...
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Quote:
Good news is, they are not all spoiled brats. Out side of the city kids are still kids, mini bikes,go carts and the motorhead life style still exists in rural areas. At least here in Michigan it does.
Yes this is a city thing, even in Virginia Beach you never see scooters in the rural area south near the North Carolina line. Real people live here and besides it would take too long to get anywhere on slow ass scooters in such areas. Scooters are a waste of money because even an inexpensive 750cc motorcycle is capable of getting on the highway and taking you anywhere you want to go not just creeping around the city getting in everyone else's way.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: The problem is...
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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What about the 500 & 650 cc scooters? I hear that some people even tour on them. I never understood why someone would buy one when they could buy a "real" MC like an America or even a Sporster for the same price or less. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: The problem is...
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I see them on the highway here every once in a while, I coul never understand why buy a 650cc scooter either when there are cheaper motorcycles available and even bigger ones cheaper.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: The problem is...
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
... I coul never understand why buy a 650cc scooter ...
I'm talking 400cc plus here ...
9-10years ago, I was given one as a loaner when my America was in being serviced.
I'd never buy one myself but after putting about 30 miles on it, I could see they would easily appeal to some.
They're twist and go automatics, they're easy to ride, comfortable, have in-built storage and can easily keep up with traffic (at legal speeds and more!).
The Honda Silverwing can do 100mph and that new BMW C650 GT (below) does 110.
The ones I've seen tend to be ridden by more - ahem - 'mature' riders, maybe because they also so easier to get onto with a step through frame !!
I've seen several of those two-wheel-up-front types too. The one that tilt into corners.
The Triumph dealer I bought a few bikes from moved over to Guzzi & Piaggio and he said they were a hoot to ride. They could corner like you wouldn't believe.
Scooters in general though, people into bikes generally won't buy them and take the piss cause they've never ridden a larger cc one and people who buy them love 'em.
"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
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Re: The problem is...
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I could see the appeal also to non-bikers. But if you want twist and go get a Zero.  That couple on the ad could be riding a 650 Beemer MC that would be much cooler IMO. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: The problem is...
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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They're the answer to a question nobody asked.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: The problem is...
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
I could see the appeal also to non-bikers. But if you want twist and go get a Zero.
super fun to ride a Zero!! no shift, no clutch, no noise, no vibration, pure instant acceleration!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: The problem is...
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The definition of COOL might be changing. Those who buy the big Scooters love them. Those who wear bright yellow vests would seem a natural fit for a mega scooter. We that run to black leather, not so much.
Tin Man 2
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Re: The problem is...
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I guess it's regional, I never see those high dollar larger scooters on the road around here. Even though they are automatic there is no way a millennial is going to spend that much money on one, no way. What big scooters are is a desperate attempt by real motorcycle companies to figure out how to appeal to millennials and still make a profit but while they are shiftless for the unskilled they forgot about the cheap factor. And the cheap factor is paramount to the millennial. They might as well have simply added an automatic transmission option to their standard motorcycles like Honda did way back in the 1970's with the CB400A Hawk. It would cost the manufacturers less and almost nobody would know the rider wasn't a geek because it looks like a real motorcycle. But if you ever ride an old Hawk remember the clutch lever is really a parking brake. 
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: The problem is...
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For many of us half the enjoyment of riding a bike is the sound of a nice sounding engine, not super loud just pleasing. It seems like Harley understood this with their Livewire electric bike a few years ago, kind of a jet engine whine as I understand it. Wonder if it ever will be put on the market?
Tin Man 2
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Re: The problem is...
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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The first and last time I rode a scooter was about 15 years ago or so.
The owner of the Triumph dealership that I'd stop by now and then had recently picked up the Aprilia brand at the time, and part of his contract with that brand's holding company Piaggio was that he'd also have to sell and service their line of higher displacement scooters.
And so, on a lark while there one day I asked the owner if I could take that 500cc model out for a short spin. He said sure.
After I hopped on the thing and made my way out of their parking lot, I pulled out into the street and twisted the throttle on that sucker and instantly got up to about 20mph or so.
That's when I pulled in the lever on the left side handlebar in order to engage the clutch and to up-shift to second.
Seems I had forgotten that scooters in general have an automatic transmission, and that that hand lever sittin' over there on the left side, at least on this Aprilia model, was actually a brake lever.
And so, and because of course scooters in general also don't have a gas tank sitting between your knees like motorcycles generally do and thus a place in which one can sandwich their knees against while riding them and feel more a part of what they're riding, I almost shot right through that scooter's windshield while attempting AND succeeding in keeping from crashing that little sucker as a came to a sudden, unforeseen and completely unanticipated stop!
I still crack up every time I think of this.
(...and btw, another thing I didn't come to appreciate about riding motorcycles over scooters until after I took this little spin on one of 'em, is that I REALLY like the idea that one uses the braking force of their engine to slow down and assist stopping on manual shift motorcycles, and whereas on scooters it's solely done by use of their brakes due to their automatic transmissions...and I didn't like the feel of that, I might say)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: The problem is...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
...
After I hopped on the thing and made my way out of their parking lot, I pulled out into the street and twisted the throttle on that sucker and instantly
got up to about 20mph or so.
That's when I pulled in the lever on the left side handlebar in order to engage
the clutch and to up-shift to second...
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: The problem is...
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Quote:
Quote:
...
After I hopped on the thing and made my way out of their parking lot, I pulled out into the street and twisted the throttle on that sucker and instantly
got up to about 20mph or so.
That's when I pulled in the lever on the left side handlebar in order to engage
the clutch and to up-shift to second...
I know, huh! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: The problem is...
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
You see the problem then Dwight and you're correct about many of them not even bothering to get a regular driver's license. Every kid I knew was at the DMV on their 16th birthday getting their license (freedom) as soon as possible. Years ago my daughter took her drivers test with our old Jeep Wrangler, her first car. She said the other kids in her class were amazed that she could drive a manual transmission much less learn to drive on one.
I know someone who just bought her 17 year old son a very clean one owner 2006 Mustang GT (automatic of course) in the hopes that it will encourage him to get off his ass and get his driver's license! This is the mentality of the generation that motorcycle manufacturers are trying to sell new bikes to. Seems pretty bleak. I guess their reality are computer games or something.
Here is an even worse example. Food. There is a new store opening near mine called "Beef Cake Fuel." They specialize in premade meals for millennial males. UPS drivers are delivering lots of premade meals to millennials.
Too lazy or too ignorant to learn to cook, go the the store or even go out to eat.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: The problem is...
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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When my stepson turned 17 we offered to help him buy a motorcycle.
" No thanks...they're too dangerous" instead he preferred to play computer games, some of them around motorcycle racing .
He didn't get the essential point that as Korbytsky said ' the map is not the territory.'
I notice though that when we took him for a birthday meal, he didn't just want to chew the menu.
I took the Road Less Travelled.
Now where the ****** am I?
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Re: The problem is...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: The problem is...
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Quote:
For many of us half the enjoyment of riding a bike is the sound of a nice sounding engine, not super loud just pleasing. It seems like Harley understood this with their Livewire electric bike a few years ago, kind of a jet engine whine as I understand it. Wonder if it ever will be put on the market?
Harley Davidson's Livewire project was just a test. They were willing to invest in the R&D for a good electric motorcycle and the reactions while positive fell on their ass when the most important 2 questions were asked; Would you buy one and how much would you be willing to pay for one? That's where the novelty stopped being interesting to potential buyers. While hybrid cars are status symbols for tree huggers and Teslas are status symbols for the wealthy electric bikes are neither.
The reality is unlike a hybrid an electric motorcycle is plug in only and recharge takes 1-3 hours and that's if you had the infrastructure to plug in to.
In the end Harley let Polaris take the initiative and the electric Victory Empulse which retailed for $20,000 failed brilliantly. When Polaris killed Victory they were offering $10,000 discounts on new Empulses.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: The problem is...
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Well the novelty of an electric bike may wear off, but a good looking electric with a pleasing sound might just do alright. Harley may be the upscale manufacturer who could make it work.
Tin Man 2
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Re: The problem is...
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On any given Sunday you might take a ride possibly with friends to a restaurant in the country for lunch. 2 hours out and 2 hours back on the scenic route at 65 miles per hour maybe some hills and such. Just a normal afternoon but you can forget about it on an electric motorcycle because it simply doesn't have the range. Special quick charging stations (1-hour) are not to be found in rural areas and a 110 outlet would take over 5 hours to recharge the bike if the restaurant would let you plug in. Then there is the fact that you could buy 2 Bonnevilles for the price of one electric motorcycle and you see the marketing problems.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: The problem is...
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Don't get me wrong, I like and own I.C.E. bikes. That said I believe with the advances being made, Electric bikes will play a role in the future. I think there may be room for a premium electric bike right now in the premium sector. Much like Tesla has done in the auto sector. Go for the high end buyer, not the mass market buyer. It's all in the Marketing, make it pretty with a good sound and build the market from there. There were 400 bikes at the local Harley Dealer this Saturday for the 2018 intro, pull up on a Live Wire and you would be the center of attraction, and Ego stroking sells. Keep your eyes open, somebody will build it and soon. Confederate, Ducati, BMW, Harley?
Tin Man 2
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Re: The problem is...
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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The big problem is that they don't come with a virtual keyboard to poke at whilst riding down the street.
And riding a real motorcycle requires more attention than youngsters are capable of.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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