 Octane
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I'm puzzled.I've been running 98 octane prtrolin my bike since I got it.It runs great but the other day I could only get 95 octane.So I filled up with that. I have usually been getting about 18KPL since I re-jetted it a couple of months back[128 mains]. On the run with the 95 I got over 20kpl.The bike "seemed" to have a "tiny" bit slower acceleration,but that could be my imagination. I can't see how lower octane would improve mileage, but in Thailand years back I had a Honda do the same thing .I used to run 95 then when it wasn't available I ran 91 and mileage improved?  Anyone know why? My Triumph manual says run a "minimum" of 95 . Our Octane rating is different from America 91 I think is your 89.Not sure
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
A lower octane number would get you better mileage because it is more flammable (has a lower flash point) whereas a higher octane number has retarders blended in.
That's why lower numbers don't do well in compression ratios over 8:1 or so, you get pre-ignition, that evil ping where the flame goes boom before the piston makes it to TDC.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Were you not paying attention when I just recently explained octane ratings again?
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Were you not paying attention when I just recently explained octane ratings again?
There was an old Aussie from Brisbane,
Who gassed up his ride with propane.
With knocking and pinging,
His ears were a'ringing,
So he got him a tank of octane.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
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I must have missed it.Where did you explain it Ian?
I understand what you said Wade.
I didn't seem to be get any pinging, but maybe in my imagination, it seemed fractionally[as in nano-seconds] more sluggish.
.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Were you not paying attention when I just recently explained octane ratings again?
Ouch. Ian must think you was snoozin' in class 
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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I was probably off tilting at windmills on the cone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfHnzYEHAow
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I don't remember what thread it was now, but I have explained it before that several times too. People have the misconception that "premium" gas is better gas, it really isn't, it just has more octane to resist pre-ignition. The octane rating is a measurement of a fuels resistance to combustion. The higher the rating the less flammable so the fuel won't self-ignite as it is compressed creating pinging in a higher compression engine. So the lower rated fuel actually burns more easily. You should actually run the lowest rated fuel you can that doesn't ping in your engine. When it fires too soon it creates that ping and can cause damage eventually.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Yes Ian, I remember now that you explained this a few times.I understand what you are saying.
I do "seem" to have a bit more "oomph" with the 97 octane.It doesn't seem to need as heavy a hand on the throttle.The 95 "seems" to need a very little bit firmer twist.That could be imaginary though.
I'll need to do a bit more experimentation I reckon.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I only ever use 95, only when it's not available will I go to 98. I personally cannot feel any power difference but I do get better mileage on 95.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
There is little to no difference in power, if anything the lower octane should produce slightly more power due to it's easier combustion. You probably would never feel the difference though as it would be so small. The higher octane would produce more power in the higher compression engine since it would ignite when it's supposed to instead of early.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 372
Adjunct
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Now lets ask a question that I'm not sure has ever been explained. I have been using ethanol free 93 octane, even though the engine doesn't need 93 octane is that going to cause damage to the engine?
'06 America, Raask foot controls, the bike use to be Graphite and Silver, now its Red and Black.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Now lets ask a question that I'm not sure has ever been explained. I have been using ethanol free 93 octane, even though the engine doesn't need 93 octane is that going to cause damage to the engine?
No. Only to your wallet.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Now lets ask a question that I'm not sure has ever been explained. I have been using ethanol free 93 octane, even though the engine doesn't need 93 octane is that going to cause damage to the engine?
Nope. Like the man said, just your wallet. A higher octane number, even as high a110 would not hurt anything, the worst would be an incomplete combustion of the less flammable fuel vapor which would just go out the pipe. Every little molecule of aliphatic hydrocarbon needs to oxidize to get the most bang at the correct time.
Well , we done beat this hoss enough. The PETA libertards gone be comin' around soon. Class dismissed. 
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 105
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
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Quote:
ethanol free
Ethanol free is a very very good thing. You WILL get better performance and higher MPG with ethanol free. For starters, ethanol provides a mere 76000 btu per gallon. Gasoline is typically around 114,000 BTUs per gallon.
More
Gasoline (conventional, summer formulation)114,500 BTUs
Gasoline (conventional, *winter formulation) 112,500 BTUs
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, E10 - ethanol) 111,836 BTUs
Why do so many state and federal revenuers loves them some ethanol? Both entities tax **almost all on highway motor fuels by the gallon sold / dispensed. Ethanol = lower MPGs, which means more gas sold per vehicle which equates to more tax collected.
And just when we thought ethanol was all about "helping" the planet...
Hardy har har 
*Ever wonder why your MPG may drop in Winter? Many regions supply a Winter gasoline blend to consumers. if memory serves, the northeast is currently dispensing Winter gas. It used to start around early November when i was in the gas biz.
** There used to be a few exemptions to on highway fuel taxes. Agricultural was one. Haven't kept up with this since late '07 though.
Further blap - Diesel fuel generally contains 129,500 BTUs. My slide rule is mighty dusty, but I believe that's a factor in why diesels get better MPG. Why is diesel usually priced so high, and we have so very few choices in diesel vehicles? You don't suppose that less tax collected via better MPGs has anything to do with this, ya?
Imagine a small pickup with a turbo / intercooled diesel mill getting say, 30 MPG? I want one. Now. Can't have it here in Corporations R' Us State of America. Sorry for the politic. The daily raping we're getting from those elected does get old though.
The feds are pushing toward 15% corn juice. The AMA is trying to block it. Very bad news if the feds succeed. Most bikes no likey 15%.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Most internal combustion engines don't like 15% to the point it will damage them. Unless you drive a flex fuel vehicle it won't like 15%.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Quote:
ethanol free
Ethanol free is a very very good thing. You WILL get better performance and higher MPG with ethanol free...
Yep. I prefer to run 87 (US) pure gas with a splash of Lucas octane boost...why the Lucas? Well, my bike has hotter cams and a Firestarter CDI with ignition advance, so I use it just in case...
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
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Thank you all.I will now run 95 petrol in my bike.We are lucky "they" have blocked mandarory ethanol here for now so I get 95 and 98 ethanol free.
Thanks again.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Buckster's my favorite.
Buck, as a current small diesel driver amidst this whole dieselgate thing, I 100% feel your pain!
Also Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it sucks up water molecules from the humidity of the air. That's what makes it ruin seals and fuel lines n such. Our bikes are new enough that it's not much of an issue, but many small engines (mowers, trimmers etc) have real problems with it.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
That same moisture issue corrodes tiny passages in those small carbs too.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Buckster's my favorite.
Buck, as a current small diesel driver amidst this whole dieselgate thing, I 100% feel your pain!
Also Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it sucks up water molecules from the humidity of the air. That's what makes it ruin seals and fuel lines n such. Our bikes are new enough that it's not much of an issue, but many small engines (mowers, trimmers etc) have real problems with it.
I've got a 2007 America[last] carb.model so no ethanol for me!
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 146
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 146 |
I think that's why I can't get a trimmer or weed whacker to last more than a year, and it's always a gas tank, gas lines or carb related problem.
I'm sorry to state that I've switched over to battery power for lawn care duties.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Just use Stabil ethanol treatment.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 1
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 1 |
Check www.pure-gas.org and see if there's an ethanol free station nearby. They're usually located near marinas.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Check your non ethanol with water based food coloring to make sure it's actually non corn. Shake up a sample and the pure gas and aqueous dye will form a meniscus. If it's got corn the dye will tinge the whole sample since ethanol is hydrophyllic. Gas is hydrophobic.
Rabies is hydrophobia. Get vaccinated every year.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Rabies is hydrophobia. Get vaccinated every year.
Wade,I think you need to cut down your medication mate
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Need decent gas? Go make a buddy at your local small airport, they will sell you all you want.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 1
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,464 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Need decent gas? Go make a buddy at your local small airport, they will sell you all you want.
Ah, the good old days. We used to do that - then use the runway to race each other. The control tower would sound a siren when a plane approached so we could get out of the way.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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Well I'm running 95 now and I see no difference except an increase in mileage and cheaper prices at the pump. 
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
Well I'm running 95 now and I see no difference except an increase in mileage and cheaper prices at the pump.
Exactly what are cheaper prices in US Dollars, may I ask? 
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Re: Octane
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Oh it doesn't make a hill of beans difference Ryk. Australian $1.42 for 98 Octane vs $1.35 for 95. [per liter] so that's , U.S. yer taxin' ma brain here son,.......... ............. about, $1.02 vs 97c U.S.? 4 liters to a U.S. gallon I believe, so, around 20c U.S. a gal.cheaper
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
I couldn't readily find the answer from Google, we would be thrilled to be able to buy 95 Octane at your prices. They won't trust us with the good stuff, I guess. I did buy 92 Oct. in Arizona last week for $2.02 a US gallon, that's as low as it gets here, CONUS. It's still weazelpizz, IMO.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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$2.02 a gallon? Luxury!
I wrote a little confusingly.We pay $1.02 U.S per liter.That's $4.08 U.S.a gallon,
that is 98 Oct.though.
There's a different system for the rating apparently.
I've heard 89 in the states is 91 here.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
The only place gas prices are going, is back up now. Opec has almost accomplished what it set out to do and that's getting the non member competition to start capping off wells, in lieu of drilling new ones..
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 198 Likes: 1
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 198 Likes: 1 |
USA $0.53 USD a litre....luxury! Australia $1.02 USD a litre....luxury! UK $1.62 USD per litre....enjoy your cheap riding guys. 
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
but I bet you guys across the pond don't adulerate your gas with FRIKKIN CORN JUICE !!!! we get that subsidized crap funneled down our orfices. but that is another little chat for another pub 
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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They're trying to push ethanol down our pumps whether we like it or not here,at the moment. Luxury Pieman ,you could ride from Land's end to John O'Groats for a gallon couldn't you?  Only Joking! I used to live in Northumbria. I was in Sweden quite a few years ago and remember I never thought I'd see the day when petrol was cheaper there than the U.K.but it was at the time.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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Quote:
The only place gas prices are going, is back up now. Opec has almost accomplished what it set out to do and that's getting the non member competition to start capping off wells, in lieu of drilling new ones..
I thought it was shale oil manufacture keeping the prices down.Is that not true Ryk?
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: Octane
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Canadian Shale, also called Tar Sands by some and due South of there is the Bakken region (North Dakota to Colorado, Eastern Montana and Wyoming, which has purportedly more reserves than S Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq and Iran all together. But deliberate OPEC over production has created a world wide glut with the intention to shut down non-OPEC member oil production by stopping new well construction and the capping off of many wells and be consequently shut down due to unprofitability. OPEC wants their worldwide hegemony reinstated, no matter how much money they lose in the short term or who they have to pay off. Once a well is shut down, it takes more than a snap of their fingers to re establish production, as well as their crackerjack crews and specialised equipment move on to other work somewhere else. Governments are a player in all this as well, because their tax revenues are by a percentage of the end user price, low prices means not as much money in their coffers, and they just don't like that. BTW, almost all the oil production in the Bakken region are on privately owned lands, A huge percentage of the Federal Govco managed real estate (and there is a lot of it) has had drilling permits routinely refused to accommodate ($$$$$$$$) the wishes of OPEC s goals. It's obviously good to be the King.
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Re: Octane
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I see.I agree with all you say,but if Opec go too hard surely the non-opec players will be "open for business" again.At least I hope so.As you say,it'll take time to get things moving again.
I hope the players would sort of mothball their oil and keep it on "standby" sort of.At least if they had a little fore thought they would.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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