Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods Advanced Versus Retarded Timing (EFI) TOR TUNE

So I get mixed explanations about this, I seem to be getting some pinging happening on early throttle up under load, lasts (that I can hear) about 1k rpm or so seems to kick in around that 2500-2900 rpm then slowly taper off. Many posts and "triumph" will say that's pretty normal for the bike (2013 Storm) but I am not totally convinced. Best I can tell the TOR tune (which I have) is supposed to retard the timing, I did not notice this sound until after they downloaded the tor tune. I also have the PCV and the AT300 autotune. But here is the rub, why would the TOR tune retard the timing if the OEM tune has a map that will adjust timing based on rpm and throttle percentage? If my power commander makes up for any fuel issues is there any real benefit to having the timing "retarded" I ran high octane fuel (premium) before the change and did not have any ping. Even Dynotech suggested to leave the tune in with the more advanced timing and tune on top of that instead of the TOR tune, that's how they do it. Anyone have some input for me on this?

First there is no advantage to running premium gas, it is not better and in fact does not burn as easily as lower octane gas. Higher octane fuel is geared to higher compression engine as it has a higher resistance to pre-ignition. The ping you get with lower octane fuel is due to pre-ignition from the fuel igniting due to compression. It can also be from carbon deposits. The carbon gets hot and causes the ignition too soon. If the new map you have causes ignition too soon you will get a pinging sound so that new map could be your issue. What ever it is fix it before it causes damage. Try your old map and see if it goes away. You should actually run the lowest octane fuel you can without pinging. I agree that the timing should probably have been left alone and just adjust the a/f mix for the new pipes.

yes thats what i am going to try Ian, makes perfect sense. Been winning about this since the dealer did the tune and still a year warranty so its on them if something is a miss, plus they did the dyno tune to boot.

If it is under warranty and they did all that I would drop in back in their lap and tell them to fix it.

Good on ya Ian for 'splainin that gas thing. Some folks buy the marketing joke that higher octane gas is somehow "premium". It's not, it's just plain ole gas with a retarder blended in. Lola pings sometimes on a lug takeoff so I run 90+ and that cured it. I think this fellow has some mapping issues, the gas is an easy fix.

although I am aware of some of the myths about the premiums there are other benefits to it are there not? I was always under the impression that greater additives are put into the premium in order to help prevent deposits and stuff building up over time( a cleaner burn as it were) as for the mapping, maybe not sure yet, I do run an autotune AT300 on the bike with 2 wide band 02 sensors in the headers so I can set my own AFR targets over the full rpm and throttle % spectrum and they are all within 13:1 at maximum and the high of 13.7 to 13.2 in most other cells. I am just trying to figure out this "knock" or what ever the hell it is. Plus, if there is a retarder in the fuel would I still be dealing with the knock? and how would going back to say 87 deal with that if it knocks at 92 (assuming its a contributor) not sure it is though.

If your A/F is verified correct while the pinging is happening, doesn't that point back to a timing issue?

If the issue is timing , and I think it is from the info you have given us,the octane won't make much difference. The only thing different in premium fuel is the higher octane the rest have the detergents in it just like the premium.

Download TuneECU and compare the stock and TOR tunes to see if the timing is different. Both tunes will be on the TuneECU website. There is a tune comparison feature in the program that makes this easy.

yes that is my thoughts, the timing and i do have tuneecu and i have looked and the timing is retarded in the TOR tune versus the stock tune ( i am gonna look again though) but assuming i am right (pretty sure i am ) that should deal with any knock i thought. I populated those cells (which are usually not in PC) with a 13.7 AFR, not sure it did anything but will need to make another run with autotune running and make sure its not just finding its way. I tried to record it but they way i had was not great so i am gonna try something else.

so back to this for a sec. Why would Triumph retard the timing on the TOR tune, I mean we are only talking a better flowing pipe (the TOR tune does not even account for a high flow filter) I did finally figure out the tuneecu comparative feature and it seems the only things changed are up in the 3k to 6k rpm range and indeed the timing has been changed (retard) some a fair bit, say 10 degree's.

Ed, Sorry for not getting back to you. Open TuneECU and in the file tab (top left) pick the map your bike is loaded with. You will see the various fuel and timing profiles. While in the file tab, you will notice the compare file. Click on it and find the map you want to compare. Once done you will see the original map and if the map you are comparing is different, a small white box will show up in each cell that is different. The maps will also change shades when cycling back and forth. To cycle between the maps, press F6 for a visual comparison. Also while comparing maps, go to the Display tab and click on 'graphic'. Now cycling through the F6 button will show any graphic difference in the maps.

Since you already found out how to use the compare feature, I posted it for others.