 Carb Balancing
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639 |
So I had the surging feeling. I replaced my chain and brake pads. Still get it. So I changed the squirrel condoms and I think it was a little better. So I am thinking carb issue. So I built a homemake manometer as you find on a quick internet search. As I hook it up my right side has a much stronger vacuum than my left. So I try messing with the screw in the middle of the carbs and am confused. If I turn it counterclockwise does it move to favor the left carb or vice versa? That thing is a real PITA to turn too. Any other great ideas? I don't get any tach jumps. it for the most part rides great except at 30-40 miles an hour I get that surging feeling. Kind of like a rubbing and some vibration in the front pegs. I tried running her on the highway today with some throttle changes to see if a needle or slide was sticking. I do a lot of highway miles. So rev up and hold it at the same throttle position for about 20 mins. For the most part. So my two questions:
1. How do I get these things into balance.
2. Any other ideas on carb issues that make them surge? I haven't done anything with them for about 3 years btw.
Thanks!
Blue/White, Battery Relocated, 155/45's, AI removed, Cocktail shakers
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Turn your idle up to about 1500, turn the screw whichever way makes them even out. Its best to have one manometer per carb or a tool that does multiple carbs.
After adjustment give it a rap or two on the throttle and measure again.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Get a long piece of fuel line and take the gas tank off and set it up high in a safe place and run a fuel line from it on a shelf to the bike to give you easy access to the balance screw. You can also make a fuel tank to hang from the handlebars.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Are you revving the motor slightly and letting it settle back down to the level it wants to be at, in between readings. You're right about that adjustment screw being a hassle to manipulate. I remove the tank and use a long fuel hose, with the tank sitting up higher than the motor. Also, reverse the manometers to verify your instruments are consistent. Once you get the carbs close to balance, the slightest turn of the adj. screw will result in a change, I have the bike sitting perpendicular (not on the sidestand) to the ground, and have a fan blowing to the front of the motor to maintain a constant run temp. Don't be in a hurry, you'll get better results and they will balance out for you.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639 |
I was thinking taking the tank off would make life a lot easier. I will do try the trick when I get a chance to really get in there a work on it. As I was sitting here I was thinking, I wonder how accurate my homemade tool is from side to side. I will make sure to switch them back and forth. My biggest problem so far has been getting the angled screw driver in there to change the setting. Follow up question...so I should turn my idle up to 1500 for the adjustment and setting?
Blue/White, Battery Relocated, 155/45's, AI removed, Cocktail shakers
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Some guys turn up the idle...I don't.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
I adjust at normal running temp and about 9-950 idle. I have no clue what the other folks do. There are a lot of competent mechanics on here, getting some more opinions never hurts.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I do mine at normal idle. I also use homemade meter, just some tube, yard stick , and some 2 cycle oil.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
You should set the idle mixture before you begin adjusting the balance. Set each idle mixture screw to get the highest rpm. Doesn't necessarily mean the mixture screws will both be turned out the same amount either.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
IMO best way to set the idle mix is do disconnect and ground one plug with the idle just high enough to keep it running on 1 cyl. adjust that cyl. by turning the mixture screw in until it runs rough then back out until it runs rough counting the turns between the 2 rough points and the correct setting is 1/2 way between those 2 points. Then repeat to set the other side.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212 |
Quote:
IMO best way to set the idle mix is do disconnect and ground one plug with the idle just high enough to keep it running on 1 cyl. adjust that cyl. by turning the mixture screw in until it runs rough then back out until it runs rough counting the turns between the 2 rough points and the correct setting is 1/2 way between those 2 points. Then repeat to set the other side.
this is the way i have done it and it works well enough. I bought a carb tune for 2 cyl wich works well and a very long set of needle nose plyers that will reach in and turn the screw, counter clockwise for right side and closkwise for left side (sitting on bike) even pushing down on the spring will change the setting so you have to let it settle after the change and blip your throttle a few times, having a fan in front of the cooler is a must or she gonna get warm. You will never get it dead on, very close is usually close enough. Also make sure everything else is good, valves don't need to be done etc. I use the nipples on the intake and not the carb, i know others use the ones on the carbs, i want to balance whats making it to the engine and not just at the back of the carb, not sure if it makes a differance, just what i do.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639 |
I think I better set my mixture screws again then before I balance side to side. Thanks for the tip Ian. Do they "get out of whack" after a while? Had it set well for about two years. Also thanks for the clockwise tip on which way to turn the screw Ed.
Blue/White, Battery Relocated, 155/45's, AI removed, Cocktail shakers
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
They usually come from the dealer a bit outta wack. The factory just builds both carbs exactly the same and ship to the triumph factory who mounts them straight on the motor. They don't flow bench them or anything. Mount them up and sent em out. Any way all that stuff above is why I converted to a single carb.
you know valve adjustment need to be correct before carb balancing. If you valves on the one side are past tolerance on the high side and the valves on the other are out of tolerance on the low side it will affect the vacuum that those cylinders pull.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
IMO best way to set the idle mix is do disconnect and ground one plug with the idle just high enough to keep it running on 1 cyl. adjust that cyl. by turning the mixture screw in until it runs rough then back out until it runs rough counting the turns between the 2 rough points and the correct setting is 1/2 way between those 2 points. Then repeat to set the other side.
this is the way i have done it and it works well enough. I bought a carb tune for 2 cyl wich works well and a very long set of needle nose plyers that will reach in and turn the screw, counter clockwise for right side and closkwise for left side (sitting on bike) even pushing down on the spring will change the setting so you have to let it settle after the change and blip your throttle a few times, having a fan in front of the cooler is a must or she gonna get warm. You will never get it dead on, very close is usually close enough. Also make sure everything else is good, valves don't need to be done etc. I use the nipples on the intake and not the carb, i know others use the ones on the carbs, i want to balance whats making it to the engine and not just at the back of the carb, not sure if it makes a differance, just what i do.
This is the correct way. First spring for a CarbTune. The carbs should be balance several times a year and anytime you make adjustments. Always use a floor fan. You will be shocked by the improved performance.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
...The carbs should be balance several times a year and anytime you make adjustments. ...
These carbs hold sync very well...unless there have been vacuum demand changes, there's really no need. If your carbs don't hold sync & need to be adjusted several times a year, I would wonder why.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
Quote:
...The carbs should be balance several times a year and anytime you make adjustments. ...
These carbs hold sync very well...unless there have been vacuum demand changes, there's really no need. If your carbs don't hold sync & need to be adjusted several times a year, I would wonder why.
#1 My carbs stay in sync, I still check mid riding season, without removing the tank, only takes a couple of minutes.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 362
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 362 |
The shop manual states to adjust the idle before removing the vacuum port caps. Correct idle speed is 1,000 +or- 50 rpm. I bump the idle up to around 2,000 rpm to make the reading a little more stable. At lower rpms the vacuum gauge needles or mercury in the manometer tube will jump around a bit more making it more difficult to read.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I think I have adjusted my sync twice since 04, 2nd time didn't really need it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
[Quote] ...At lower rpms the vacuum gauge needles or mercury in the manometer tube will jump around a bit more making it more difficult to read. [/Quote]
That is why I use decent gauges with good dampers...simply not an issue.
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I added a simple ball valve at the bottom of the loop on the homemade version. That way start the bike with it closed, this prevents sucking fluid into the engine if way out of balance (also why I use 2 cycle oil) Ease the valve open it doubles as a damper.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
CrazyHorse is correct, very few are balanced from the factory. Most dealer don't check before delivery. Second, if not occasionally check how do you know they're balanced? If they never get out of balance, bravo!, bonus points!. If out of balance, you're dating a homely girl. Lastly, a CarbTune isn't cheap, but it's worth having especially if you have friends that ride classic Triumphs. Mine has been used on thirty bikes of friends and family. It's been well worth the investment, it's probably the only reason most even talk to me. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I think my sync manometer cost me about $10 with the ball valve.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
I think my Carbtune II was around $50, it's dry, comes in a nice case with room for appropriate tools. It travels well, besides I'm not as industrious as you Dog. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639 |
Ok so home from a very long weekend at a horse show with my daughter. What size is our fuel line? I'm going to go buy some tubing to rig up my tank to work on it. I have 23,500 miles. Haven't done the valve check as recommended. Should I be doing that too? This is turning into a huge project!! Runs great at speed. Just that 30-40 mph surging feel. Almost Ike something is rubbing. A whoomp whoomp feel. Looses something in text. Haha!
Blue/White, Battery Relocated, 155/45's, AI removed, Cocktail shakers
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Re: Carb Balancing
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 639
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
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Posts: 639 |
Thanks for your help guys. I did some work on the carbs. I'm closer but not perfect yet. These things can be more temperamental than my teenage daughter! At least I know what to do now with your help.
Blue/White, Battery Relocated, 155/45's, AI removed, Cocktail shakers
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