 Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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OP
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I finally decided to install the Speed Bleeders, that I bought for my first 2007 TBA but was never able to install them as they arrived while I was in the hospital recovering from my accident (April 2008). So I pulled out the instructions and removed the front bleed screw to install the Speed Bleeder. Well...trickle...trickle out comes brake fluid (this wasn't mentioned in the procedure). I install the Speed Bleeder and tighten things up. Did the same to the rear brakes and had no fluid leak out, during the swap, and the brakes seem to work. I haven't tested the Speed Bleeder on the rear yet. I removed the reservoir cover and stuff to find it empty ! I filled it and tried to use the Speed Bleeder, with no effect. My neighbor the mechanic (He also rides) came over tonight to help me out and suggested we swap out the Speed Bleeder for the original screw. We did this and then started to gravity bleed the front brakes. Went through almost half a bottle before deciding that something is still not right. Several times, we'd close the bleed screw and try the brakes and nothing. I did notice, after he went home, that when I did operate the handle, some bubbles would come up out into the reservoir from the "hole on the right" (It looks like it's got a little white plastic piece - reed valve or something ?). I did a little reading here last night and it seems gravity bleeds don't seem to really work. So I'm debating on getting a vacuum pump like this one at Harbour Freight. My neighbor is wondering if the master cylinder got messed up when it drained, since we were never able to get any pressure. I'm hoping this isn't the case. Any suggestions ? I'm really bummed. Tomorrow will be sunny and temps in low 60's (15-17 deg C) and I wanted to take her out for a ride.  Thanks in advance. Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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 Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
I had speedbleeders and threw them out. Novel idea but when you do a brake swap it screws with getting a good bleed. If you can swap em and NOT lose fluid they probably work well.
Unbolt your front caliper and let it hang (support it with wire ties or velcro...whatever. You basically need to get the line so it'll allow the bubbles to move up the line.
Once suspended remove your master clinker cover and push fluid in from the bottom up. Do it slowly, you don't want brake fluid splashing all over your tins.
Once you have fluid in the lines and system you should be good for bleeding again.
The idea behind the caliper hanging and the line being straight up/down is to allow the air to move easier. You may even want to hang the caliper like that overnight.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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Learned Hand
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OP
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Thanks Z, I'll give that a try.
When you say "push fluid in from the bottom up", are you saying to add brake fluid in from the bleeder screw ? Am I going to need a cheap syringe or something similar (I've got the hose, thanks to the stupid speed bleeders)?
Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Posts: 5,616 |
You'd need one of those reverse bleed kits. I have one if you want to borrow it. Its kind of a pain in the ass cause its manual. I should have got an air powered unit.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,354
Learned Hand
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OP
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Well, I got the caliper off and the line relatively vertical for the night.
I'm still hoping to get her back on the road tomorrow. If this does not work, plus some more gravity feed, I'll let you know. Maybe I can come over on the weekend and borrow your brake fluid "splasher" gizmo.
Thanks Z !
Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,212
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Front ones can be a pain, i think i cycled a full bottle of oil several times before i got all the air out and the brakes as they should be, i found that putting the end of a bleeder hose in a jar with half oil and just on brake off brake on break off brake etc etc, and finally got her done. I bought some of those bleeders, was going to put them on this year, maybe now i won't.
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Tip the front caliper up a bit, on mine there is recess in the ceiling of it that tends to capture a small bubble in there.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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Learned Hand
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OP
Learned Hand
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Thanks Wade & Mike !!
Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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Something doesn't sound right at all. Unless you had the bleeder nipple out for a long time you shouldn't have lost more then a tablespoon of fluid from the res. If it was low enough to not have any in when you checked it then id say you did have an issue with the master cyl in the first place. The best piece of equip for this is a hand held vac bleeder pump for 35 bucks at any autozone. Hook it up to the nipple,remove master cyl cover and start the squeezing. It wall draw the fluid from the res down the line and into a catch can on the vac unit. Just keep adding fluid til its all new then close the nipple. Done. If there is a problem after that then its usually the master cyl.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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Learned Hand
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OP
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I don't know why fluid leaked out on the front but not the back, when I swapped in the damn Speed Bleeders. It started coming out as soon as I pulled the original bleed screw/nipple. Possibly because the front reservoir sits a bit higher than the rear? But, I think I finally have all the air bled out of the front. It only took ~2/3 of a bottle. As Z suggested, I pulled the caliper and let it sit with the brake line as vertical as possible overnight. Today, I did the gravity drain for a few minutes, then close the vent screw and work the master cylinder, observing the little air bubbles coming out of the return port (looks like it has a little white reed valve in it - the port on the right if you're standing and facing the bike.). After no more little bubbles came out, I'd stop and start to slowly drain again for a few minutes, then repeat. It took about an hour or so of doing this until I noticed instead of air, I noticed a little upwelling of fluid. Checking the wheel, it wouldn't turn. So, I repeated about 5 more times, then adjusted the level and put it all back together. I also pulled the Speed Bleeder off the rear (again, no fluid leakage) and re-installed the original vent screw & cap. I rolled her back & forth a few times, testing the front brake and she seems to work. I then rolled her outside and gave her a quick rinse, to be sure no brake fluid is sitting anywhere (as suggested by my neighbor). Fired her up, while I dried her off. I rolled her back in, testing the brake and it seems ok. I did notice, when I pulled the caliper, that the pads might need to be replace before the end of the summer, if not sooner (depending upon how much riding I get in). I'll take her out, for her first ride of the new year, later and see how the front brake holds up. If the front brake still seems iffy, I may take Z up on his offer to borrow his manual injector toy. Thanks to all for the advice. Steve PS: Does anyone want to buy a barely used set of Speed Bleeders ? I have a good price just for you... 
Last edited by Conwy; 03/12/2014 3:03 PM.
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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The way you arte bleeding the brakes isn't the correct way. I was taught to bleed brrakea by alternating squeezing the brake lever with the bleeders open then closing the bleeds and releasing the lever.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
That is the way you do it with conventional bleeders. Speed Bleeders have a valve in them making the open and close not needed. They seem to only really work when have little to no air in the system. Another good way is to attach a piece of clear tubing to the conventional bleeder nipple and run it down into a glass jar with brake fluid in it. Making sure the tube end is below the level of brake fluid in the jar open the bleeder. Then you just pump the lever or pedal with the bleeder open and watch the air bubbles in the jar. Once you can pump the brake and see no air in the jar it is bled.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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Yup to the clear tube in a jar as well. I used to bleed my brakes the old fashioned way til I bought the vacuum hand pump.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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Learned Hand
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I'm very familiar with ball check valves, which is what the Speed Bleeders are basically. But since the general consensus is that they are useless, I'm going to ditch them or sell them cheap to someone who wants them. I think I'm going to get the vacuum pump system, that I included in my first post, sometime later this year. There's a cheaper version, but it seem most reviews describe it as worthless junk that often breaks the first time out of the box. I still want to replace the brake fluid for the rear brake line and there is not as much of a gravity flow with it as with the front. The vacuum pump arrangement might come in handy with this. Brakes are working fine now, nonetheless. And I now know my front brakes have clean, fresh fluid in the lines...  And my ride was great this afternoon !!  Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2008
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The speed bleeders are not useless,they are only good for bleeding during regular maintenance. If your bleeding and empty system they are no good. I use them but if it needs a major air bleed I ignore the speed bleed function and just teat them as if they are regular valves.Pump the lever hold,open valve,close valve,release.
Bill.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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Learned Hand
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OP
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Quote:
The speed bleeders are not useless,they are only good for bleeding during regular maintenance. If your bleeding and empty system they are no good. I use them but if it needs a major air bleed I ignore the speed bleed function and just teat them as if they are regular valves.Pump the lever hold,open valve,close valve,release.
They are useless as far as I'm concerned. The procedure clearly says to remove the original vent screw and install the speed bleeder. Well as soon as the vent screw was coming off, I was losing brake fluid and it drained the reservoir (which doesn't really hold that much anyway) and gave me this whole mess.
I fully understand how they work, but in this case, I'm not impressed. And besides, something that was beat into my head, 30+ years ago, was to never trust a check valve anyway.
Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
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Quote:
Well as soon as the vent screw was coming off, I was losing brake fluid and it drained the reservoir
Can't help but wonder- did you have the reservoir lid off when you opened the bleeder ?
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2012
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Adjunct
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When i bleed my brakes i use a jar and a tube and only open the bleed valve 3/4 turn. if it's open too much air seeps back into the system through the threads. I position the master cyl. on the front brake with the bars to the left lock. This keeps the banjo fitting lower than the fluid in the master cyl and will eliminate a high spot in the system and makes sure there is no pocket of air bubbles. Also push the pistons back into the caliper. I've done the gravity feed and it works as does the pumping method. Sometimes if you have a lot of air in the system you can close the nipple and pump the lever then crack the nipple open and watch the air push out under pressure. I also have a vacuum bleeder that works well too.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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The hand pump version I got from autozone was 35 bucks and has held up just fine and works great. I completly change out my brake fluid front and rear once a year on both bikes. No need to spend more unless you want one for actual automotive use.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,354
Learned Hand
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
Well as soon as the vent screw was coming off, I was losing brake fluid and it drained the reservoir
Can't help but wonder- did you have the reservoir lid off when you opened the bleeder ?
Wade, no, the cover was on. I've never even removed it since I got the bike.
I supposed, if I had another person helping me, they could have been topping off the front reservoir while I swapped in the Speed Bleeder. It would have been messy, but it would have stopped the air bubbles.
But like I said, it's all back to normal now. Interesting experience though.
I'll look for the US$35 vacuum pump at AutoZone Mike, thanks ! Given the lower height of the reservoir for the rear brake and the fact that I could install/replace the Speed Bleeder with little or no fluid leakage, I don't think the gravity drain method will work on the rear line, and I'm not keen on going through the whole air in the line ordeal again.
Steve
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 950
Banned
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Banned
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That hand pump is a great little tool. Replacing your brake fluid isn't done nearly enough by most riders and its a dang cheap way to keep your brakes in great shape. The hand vac makes that job a breeze.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Having rebuilt several calipers, the speed bleeders work. In a round about way. First thing is to get fluid through the system. leave the bleeder open and gently work the lever until the brake fluid flows. then use the speed bleeder just like a conventional one. When you are almost finished, you will be pumping the lever two or three times, holding it down, slightly opening the speed bleeder, then closing it, then release the handle, repeat until you have full lever. Used to hang the calipers, etc. Now just leave them in place (after the rebuild(s)) when bleeding them. With the speed bleeders in place bleeding the calipers is a one bottle, no caliper re-positioning event. Without them, the process is hanging the calipers and using inordinate amounts of brake fluid. And this is with yours truly bleeding them, no helper and no vacuum devices.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Having rebuilt several calipers, the speed bleeders work. In a round about way. First thing is to get fluid through the system. leave the bleeder open and gently work the lever until the brake fluid flows. then use the speed bleeder just like a conventional one. When you are almost finished, you will be pumping the lever two or three times, holding it down, slightly opening the speed bleeder, then closing it, then release the handle, repeat until you have full lever. Used to hang the calipers, etc. Now just leave them in place (after the rebuild(s)) when bleeding them. With the speed bleeders in place bleeding the calipers is a one bottle, no caliper re-positioning event. Without them, the process is hanging the calipers and using inordinate amounts of brake fluid.
And this is with yours truly bleeding them, no helper and no vacuum devices.
I got them to work as well, doing just as Moe says, except I use 2 wedges to fully collapse the cups/pistons 1st, with the bleeder cracked and hosed into a glass, I change out the fluid every year too. I also think they were worth the little money that they cost. I fought with stubborn air bubbles in the calipers at first too, not anymore.
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Learned Hand
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Go to a feed store... they have vet supplies. Get a LARGE (but inexpensive syringe. Put a small clear hose in the syringe end and GLUE IT WITH SUPERGLUE... If you don't it will blow off and you will wet your bike with brake fluid. Both DOT 3 and DOT 4 are excellent paint removers. Get a 1/4" piece of clear hose; about 2" will do and put it OVER the thinner piece of clear hose. GLUE IT. OK, now to bleed.
DO NOT USE SPEEDBLEEDERS; they have a one way check valve.
Get a bottle of brake fluid and pull it into the syringe by pulling out the plunger. Put the 1/4" hose piece over the open bleed valve. If the system is completely empty, no problems but if the system already has brake fluid be aware that you should open the bleeder with the 1/4" hose already on the bleeder as the system has some pressure in it and the bleed valve will weep (drool brake fluid). You may want to use some teflon tape to seal the bottom of the bleed valve while it is loose... they will leak there under pressure using this method. If you retain the bleed valves after bleeding, you can just leave the teflon tape in place.
The cap on your master cylinder should be off. With the bleed valve open, push the plunger on the syringe in and this forces brake fluid WITHOUT ANY AIR BUBBLES through the caliper and brake line and then into the master cylinder. This method ensures you don't have to sit there pumping a brake handle till you get blue in the face.
You can install speed bleeders at this point and they will work as advertised. They have a red fluid sealing goo on them and that stuff works better than teflon tape which tends to goo up in brake fluid. The syringe method of pushing brake fluid through a system works better than any variety of pumps... I do a lot of vintage stuff and work with dry systems that have been rebuilt and recommend it.
wiredgeorge
TX Hill Country
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Another good way is to attach a piece of clear tubing to the conventional bleeder nipple and run it down into a glass jar with brake fluid in it. Making sure the tube end is below the level of brake fluid in the jar open the bleeder. Then you just pump the lever or pedal with the bleeder open and watch the air bubbles in the jar. Once you can pump the brake and see no air in the jar it is bled.
This is brilliant. Why have I never thought of this???
07 Speedmaster
14 Daytona 675R
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Re: Stupid Speed Bleeders !!!! Air in my brake line !
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Quote:
Another good way is to attach a piece of clear tubing to the conventional bleeder nipple and run it down into a glass jar with brake fluid in it. Making sure the tube end is below the level of brake fluid in the jar open the bleeder. Then you just pump the lever or pedal with the bleeder open and watch the air bubbles in the jar. Once you can pump the brake and see no air in the jar it is bled.
This is brilliant. Why have I never thought of this???
This is what I do, but I try and keep the jar above the brake caliper, so the brake fluid & air is always moving up to the jar.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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