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Need help Backfire Issue EFI
#536575 01/19/2014 12:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
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Preview;
I bought my 2011 America used last summer from a dealer. The previous owner had installed the British Customs Air box removal kit and Short slash cut pipes. Previous owner also removed the O2 sensors and installed the plug in resistors to trick the ecm to open loop operation. The air injection (AI) system has not been removed and is completely plugged in and funtional. I verified the TORS map is currently installed with my pc and plug.
My Problem;
Bike runs nicely with great power most of the time. At cold start up with enrichment (choke) on the bike make a rythmic popping and spitting through the carb and out the exhaust. Once warmed up and Choke turned off the rythmic popping and spitting goes away and settles down to a nice smooth idle. Regularly during my ride the bike will pop from the throttle bodies then immediately backfire through the exhaust when slowly opening the throttle. For example, when taking off easy from a stop it will pop/spit from the throttle body then backfire out the exhaust. Sometimes from a stop taking off it will die out which is dangerous in traffic. Another example is when criusing at part throttle then easing in to open throttle I will hear the pop in the throttle body then backfire through the exhaust. Another example when cruising at a constant speed then ease off throttle the quickly back on throttle it will pop then backfire again.
My Theory,
Sounds like a vacuum leak. I have checked the throttle body mounting rubbers and they are tight and not cracked. there are two vacuum lines at each throttle body intake that go to solenoid switches (see pics below). I am not sure what these do so I haven't removed and plugged them to see if this is the source of a suspected vacuum leak. Can I safely disconnect these and see if the bike improves? Are these the last link to the AI system? If so can I remove the AI system with these? I have heard theories the bike runs better (less popping or backfires) with the AI system in place.
Other theories welcome;
What do these symtoms sound like to you?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Rick.



2011 "UMPH" America w/ Air box removed and BC Exhaust.
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
Race #536576 01/19/2014 2:51 PM
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Post a pic of your spark plugs.


I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. Edgar Allan Poe
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
StandingBull #536577 01/19/2014 3:35 PM
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Did this develop this problem or did it always do it?

Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
jryan #536578 01/19/2014 10:54 PM
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The bike has done this since I got it.


2011 "UMPH" America w/ Air box removed and BC Exhaust.
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
StandingBull #536579 01/19/2014 10:57 PM
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Quote:

Post a pic of your spark plugs.



I'll post some pics tomorrow. Thanks.


2011 "UMPH" America w/ Air box removed and BC Exhaust.
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
jryan #536580 01/19/2014 11:05 PM
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What you call "vacuum lines" to the throttle bodies are sensor lines. DO NOT REMOVE OR BLOCK THESE.

You can remove the AI plumbing but with the O2 sensors gone and turned off in the computer the AI is doing nothing and so is not contributing to you problem (except looks crap).

IMO backfiring through the throttle bodies and under accelleration is bad and a sign of an air leak in the inlet somewhere.

Mild intermittent popping through the exhaust is normal under decelleration (closed throttle) on our EFI bikes with the AI removed/off. Excessive popping or any backfiring through the exhaust is not normal.

I suggest replacing the inlet rubbers AND new silicon tubes for the sensor lines (what you called "vacuum lines") as the latter are known to fail.

Plenty of info on removing the AI on the RAT forum.


Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
foglefar #536581 01/20/2014 12:19 AM
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I'd do the carb cleaner leak test. I chased a idle single cylinder pop for a week to find the orings went to ****** on the intake and spacer.

Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
Race #536582 01/20/2014 9:59 AM
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Quote:

Preview;
I verified the TORS map is currently installed with my pc and plug.





You are running the TOR map? With no air box? Was the TOR map modified? Any PowerCommander module to correct the fueling?
Air leak is a possible issue but I would think the TOR tune/map would still be far from optimum for that configuration. If the TOR map was not modified (using TuneECU or adding the PC module) to allow for the additional fuel to go with all that fresh air you may need to make some additional tuning tweaks.


09 America, some modifications
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
foglefar #536583 01/20/2014 10:51 AM
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Quote:

What you call "vacuum lines" to the throttle bodies are sensor lines. DO NOT REMOVE OR BLOCK THESE.

You can remove the AI plumbing but with the O2 sensors gone and turned off in the computer the AI is doing nothing and so is not contributing to you problem (except looks crap).

IMO backfiring through the throttle bodies and under accelleration is bad and a sign of an air leak in the inlet somewhere.

Mild intermittent popping through the exhaust is normal under decelleration (closed throttle) on our EFI bikes with the AI removed/off. Excessive popping or any backfiring through the exhaust is not normal.

I suggest replacing the inlet rubbers AND new silicon tubes for the sensor lines (what you called "vacuum lines") as the latter are known to fail.

Plenty of info on removing the AI on the RAT forum.



Thanks for the info. I will keep chasing a vacuum leak.


2011 "UMPH" America w/ Air box removed and BC Exhaust.
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
MattyMo #536584 01/20/2014 10:59 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Preview;
I verified the TORS map is currently installed with my pc and plug.





You are running the TOR map? With no air box? Was the TOR map modified? Any PowerCommander module to correct the fueling?
Air leak is a possible issue but I would think the TOR tune/map would still be far from optimum for that configuration. If the TOR map was not modified (using TuneECU or adding the PC module) to allow for the additional fuel to go with all that fresh air you may need to make some additional tuning tweaks.



I have been waiting for a better map to come out for the EFI America. I don't feel comfortable adjusting the tables myself. Is there a better map for Air Box mods and Pipes that I am not aware of?


2011 "UMPH" America w/ Air box removed and BC Exhaust.
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
Race #536585 01/20/2014 11:18 AM
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Not that I am aware of at this time. TTP (http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/triumph-twin-power-efi-tunes.php) is working on it and will have them available in the future.
I did a bit of research on it some time ago and it appeared that the EFI models had less to gain from the removal of the air box compared to carbed models. The air flow limit of the injectors & throttle body is not that much more than can be achieved with a modified box rather than no air box & pod filters. I opened mine up a bit but left it in place. Then had engine mods done and a trip to the performance shop for tuning.
A proper dyno tune is your best choice. Power Commander is an option but one I refused. Found a good, experienced tuner using TuneECU and had the custom tune done.
Good luck with it.


09 America, some modifications
Re: Need help Backfire Issue EFI
MattyMo #536586 01/20/2014 7:36 PM
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Quote:

Not that I am aware of at this time. TTP (http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/triumph-twin-power-efi-tunes.php) is working on it and will have them available in the future.
I did a bit of research on it some time ago and it appeared that the EFI models had less to gain from the removal of the air box compared to carbed models. The air flow limit of the injectors & throttle body is not that much more than can be achieved with a modified box rather than no air box & pod filters. I opened mine up a bit but left it in place. Then had engine mods done and a trip to the performance shop for tuning.
A proper dyno tune is your best choice. Power Commander is an option but one I refused. Found a good, experienced tuner using TuneECU and had the custom tune done.
Good luck with it.




What he said.^^^


Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge

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