 A great man dies
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Today Nelson Mandela died. Having lived in Zimbabwe, I felt close to that which he stood for. He will always stand out in my mind as one of the greatest heroes ever. May he R.I.P.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Definitely a man willing to stand up for his beliefs and willing to suffer the consequences. Far more than most men. 
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Definitely a man of great compassion and forgiveness.
RIP Mr. Mandela
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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The world will mourn the death of such a courageous person.
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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We have lost one of the greatest men of all time.R.I.P. Mr.Mandela
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 226
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2008
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Errr,is this the same man who blew people up,obviously,fightin fer what he believes in.but two wrongs,dont make a right.......n yeah appartheid was a disgusting vision of how we should live.still..... 
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Re: A great man dies
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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RIP,but I can't think of a single thing he did for me or anyone I know.
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Well,
For instance,
Churchill wanted to turn out British troops on the Jarrow Marchers,His own people,but he's regarded as "Great"
Very few "Greats" are unblemished
I didn't say Mandela was a Saint.But he was a Great man.
If someone had jailed me for 27 years I'd be looking for revenge.He didn't.
Compare him to the murderer Mugabe.
Anyway,no argument that "two wrongs " etc.
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 226
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Mmmmmmmm. 
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
I agree Paul. He was one of the greatest men of our time. His astounding gift of forgiveness and remarkable leadership helped unite a country that was on a downward spiral towards civil war and racial hatred. For those who don't agree I suspect you may not have an in depth knowledge of the country's history and the man.he was by no means a saint. But he was great leader. I only wish we could have a leader with some of those qualities.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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"Churchill wanted to turn out British troops on the Jarrow Marchers,His own people"
A little dramatic, this is what actually happened according to recently released government papers.
As the march headed for London, Churchill demanded Home Office action.
Jarrow march
Marches: Protests in 1920s and 1930s
"The Chancellor of the Exchequer ( Churchill ) asked me to write to you about the march," said an official.
"Apparently these people are getting into a very distressed condition and Mr Churchill thinks that their arrival in London foot-sore and hungry would create a very difficult situation.
"He asks therefore what you are doing about it. His own view is that they should be intercepted while still some distance off, treated decently and tactfully, but turned back somehow or other."
No Churchill didn't spend 27 years in prison, but he never had his minions of the ANC kill domestic political opponents, mostly black.
Mandela is a great man, not a saint. He mellowed in prison and was forgiving, but by the time he was freed his sponsors were out of business.
Unfortunately the ANC is in power in S. Africa and things haven't been going well. Now that Mandela is dead it might be reported on more.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Unfortunately the ANC is in power in S. Africa and things haven't been going well. Now that Mandela is dead it might be reported on more.
Or get worse, since he as a high-profile figurehead is no longer around.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Thanassis,I think things will get worse.
It got worse from the day Mandela handed power over to Mbeke,if not before, his ex-wife Winnie Mandela was corrupt and criminal. Zuma has also been caught in corruption scandals.
I do think Mandela was the shining light of Africa though.To my knowledge they've never had an African leader that wasn't out to loot them blind
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
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Mac,I'm the Son,Grandson,and Great-Grandson of Northumbrian coal miners so forgive me if I take Churchills words with a grain of salt.
"He asks therefore what you are doing about it. His own view is that they should be intercepted while still some distance off, treated decently and tactfully, but turned back somehow or other"
Hearing of the almost feudal conditions of those times I just wonder what "or other" would be.
Anyway,I will refrain from any further posts on this subject
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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No offence was intended, no doubt workingmen in heavy industries would not hold Churchill in high regard in 1936 Britain. Considering the Battle of Cable Street took place the day before the Jarrow March started, I think the government in London was a little paranoid. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,995 Likes: 10 |
Dinosaur.
"Oh Man I only ride 'em.I don't know what makes 'em work". Donald "Oddball" Sutherland
"Don't let the bastards get you down". Kris Kristofferson
"I am only paranoid because everyone is against me". Larry [Frank Burns] Linville
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Errr,is this the same man who blew people up,obviously,fightin fer what he believes in.but two wrongs,dont make a right.......n yeah appartheid was a disgusting vision of how we should live.still.....
Mandela never blew up people. He blew up a lot of STUFF, but never people. He believed that by destroying certain infrastructure components, be could weaken the oppressive white minority regime. He was a pacifist and a true humanitarian and believed in the preservation of life.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 226
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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He may have never bloodied his own hands,but he didnt mind gettin other people to do his dirty work for him.as for a pacifist,he never renounced violence as a way against the oppressive white minority.even amnesty international wouldnt have nowt to do with him.as for winnie,his wife.........all that bein said he was a great leader for his people,its just that i dont believe we should hold him as the "great man" so many thinks he was,he was flawed,like all humans are.
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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Quote:
Quote:
Errr,is this the same man who blew people up,obviously,fightin fer what he believes in.but two wrongs,dont make a right.......n yeah appartheid was a disgusting vision of how we should live.still.....
Mandela never blew up people. He blew up a lot of STUFF, but never people. He believed that by destroying certain infrastructure components, be could weaken the oppressive white minority regime. He was a pacifist and a true humanitarian and believed in the preservation of life.
I believe the documents found at his capture would dispute that. Even Mandela and his co-defendants knew they were guilty as charged, their lawyers knew it and only hoped for avoidance of the death penalty.
I'm not sure how one could consider him a pacifist after his radicalization, his being on the ruling committee of the ANC and a co-founder of it's military arm the MK.
Of course one must think of this in the context of apartheid and the cold war. In the long run, so far, Mandela did a great service in the cause of freedom in his country.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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i dont believe we should hold him as the "great man" so many thinks he was,he was flawed,like all humans are.
By that standard there are no "great men", or women for that matter.
I think that his actions post apartheid are what really count.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: A great man dies
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
i dont believe we should hold him as the "great man" so many thinks he was,he was flawed,like all humans are.
By that standard there are no "great men", or women for that matter.
I think that his actions post apartheid are what really count.
Not unlike revolutionairies of any stripe. If you win and do good by your people you are a hero if you lose you are the goat. In racial terms he did very well as well politicaly, financially not so good. 2 out of 3 keeps him in high esteem.
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