Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech valve adjustment, dealer hours, shim question

I had my valves adjusted last week, 11.8K miles.

Dealer charged 3.5 hours. Does that sound about right?

4 valves were out: 3 got 3.05 shims, 1 got 2.90 shim. Does that sound like a lot of adjustment? If that was way out, do you think I have done any damage to the engine waiting until 12K miles?

Somewhere back around 7K or so it had noticable clicking and I asked the mechanic what he thought and he said it sounded OK. Then a couple weeks ago he said it sounded like I needed an adjustment [without my asking] so I took it in.

3.5 hours is about right. It's hard to say about the shims without knowing what was there to start with.
Here's the 'Readers Digest' version of the work involved.
1. Remove the battery cover and disconnect the battery.
2. Remove the seat(s). (to get at the tank bolt)
3. Remove the fuel tank.
4. Remove the cam cover.
5. Turn the engine 2 full revolutions, stopping each 1/4
turn to check the valves and noting the clearance.
6. Remove the cams if the valves need adjusting.
7. Remove the shims as needed.
8. Inspect the shims for wear and measure the true thickness.
9. Calculate the required thickness.
10. Install the new shims.
11. Reinstall the cams.
12. Turn the engine over by 1/4's again to make sure of the adjustment.**
13. Reassemble the bike.
14. Start it up and warm up the engine, checking for noise and leaks.**
15. Take a test ride.**

** Anything wrong at these points means doing it all over again, usually for free.

As for possible damage, a lot depends on just how far off the were and which way. Tight valves will burn in short order. Very loose valves will eventually pound the cam faces and valve stems out of shape. I once worked on a Honda 350 that had a cam that had been hammered so badly that the hardened surface was flaking off.

I've had mine done 3 times at 2 different dealers. Both of them charged 2 hours labor, and that included a carb sync. But that time can vary a bit, no more than 1/2 hour though, because if the camshaft farthest back(intakes?) has an inside valve out of adjustment, then they HAVE to pull the camshaft to fit a new shim in. Of course that 2 hour labor time is IF the dealer techs are smart and have figured out how to take out and put in a different shim on the rest of the valves without taking out the camshafts.

I wouldn't worry about damage. There's a reason why the valve adjustment interval is 12,000 miles, and they wouldn't just guess at that figure. If anything, the service intervals are on the conservative side.

It's always better for a valve to be loose and tic-tic-tic, than it is for it to be too tight. A slightly loose valve will never hurt anything other than performance. Whenever I do my own adjustments, I leave them just shy of the OEM specs so that there's no chance of them being too tight.

Hi Everybody

I have another question about measuring the valves. I bought a Craftsman feeler gage but the size gap between feelers seems like it will be too large to get a good idea of the gap. What brand feeler gauge would you recommend?

Thanks

Brad

i got mine from sears, worked out just fine

Frank

Might wanna determine which leaf is 06 and which is 09, then take a sharpie and write "six" and "nine' on respective leaves.

D'nask me how I determined the need for this

Hours are about right. I stood at my mechanic's shoulders with my head in the way and dumb questions. He kept right on working, but although I wanted to learn how to do it, it's pretty involved and I'll probably have him do it again next time. Also, I'll tell you young guys that I do my own valve adjustment on my "old" Triumphs, takes a 7/16 wrench, a feeler guage and about 15 minutes. Yeah, yeah, I know, more power, better perf., etc. Still.

after doing the job once i dont thin its very hard to do, too me about 3-4 hours and that was really taking my time and driving to get shims. the shop manual and takeing your time if your mechanically inclined is all you need

Frank

I just thought I would relay an experience I had with a, let's say, a local Mechanic around my parts.

I rang the shop and asked if they could check and see whether they had the 6 different sized shims I was after. Eventually I got put onto the mechanic who reckons that if after measuring the gaps it showed that they were loose (not too lose and definitely not tight), then it wasn't really necessary to change the shims. I then questioned him on what the Triumph and Haynes manuals said regarding tolerances etc (which obviously he knows) and asked him if whether the exhaust valve that showed 0.34mm (should be no more than 0.30mm) would be still alright, and he answers yeah, shouldn't be a problem.

He then explains how over time the valve springs will loosen up (something like that) and subsequently, the distances will naturally close up quite by themselves.

MMM, I think, never heard that one before, leave it with me I say (so I can talk to you blokes I thinking) .

Anyway, I have already spoken to a couple of members and even a local Aussie member who only lives 4000km away in West Aus (tadpole) who I rang, and the concensus so far is, "it's bullsh#t" . Mainly because the manuals don't say to keep the tolerances within the ranges specified for nothing and Taddy being an ex mechanic, says that in his experience many motors do in fact behave like what the local mechanic reckons but, being on his 3rd Bonny since 01, every time it's been the opposite for him.

So trusting my BonnyAmerica members viewpoints more and anyway, wanting to go through the checking and shim replacement procedure anyway, I ring an online shim mob and hopefully the shims I ordered will be delivered today, if not tomorrow.

Anyway, I just thought I would let you guys know for interest sake cos to me quite frankly, I thought this comment from the mechanic just didn't make a lot of sense.

In fact, this in one of the reasons I wanted to do all my own mechanical work cos I just don't trust others anymore (particularly this bloke) to do stuff to my bike . I want it to last me a fair while and anyway, there's no better feeling than learning (sometimes the hard way) about your bike and seeing it run nicely. It's sort of like you have more of a relationship with it or something. Now I'm just sounding weird.

So if anyone has any thoughts on this one, I'd be interested in hearing them.

I bought a CTA Feeler Gauge model A314 gauge, from either Advanced Auto Parts or Pep Boys. There were indeed several models, some that had only a few leafs and very limited gap selection. This one has a good number of leafs.


Gerry

John,

A betterer way to get shims is to go to the various local dealerships with your micrometer in hand and a listing of the acceptable range of shim sizes you need. Try the parts desk but you will find that going into the garage and asking one of the mechanics will usually get you to their shim stash. Then measure away and bring your old shims. Sometimes you get to swap the shims even-stevens.

Honda uses them in their older sickles. Yamaha uses them in their V-Max.

Another point: Mic the shims you received from the online shim mob before you even think about using them.

Hi Jim. Well the mechanic I was talking about was actually the local dealer as well. I just didn't want to refer to him here but anyway, my first stop was to get the shims there but I got the "talking to" (geez I hate that) like "a bit of advice for you stuff". Hey, I get the advice I need here and I know it's free and accurate (most of it anyway). So after "the talking to" basically suggesting not to worry about it, I then straight away emailed an online mob in Aus called precision shims . That was not yesterday but the day before about 4pm. Gave him the measurements I needed to 2 decimal points ie one of the shims I needed was 2.975 so I asked for 2.97mm so there would be more not less clearance.

Well they arrived overnight at 11am yesterday. Measured them straight away and yep, they were virtually spot on the money. Like the 2.97 might have been 2.975, so there was nothing in it to worry about. So put them in, put the cams back on exactly how they had come off, and they fit very nicely where they should have. Tightened the caps in the right order and then measured the clearances and what do ya know, spot on. You beauty.

So now I'm putting her all together with the next thing to do is trying to work out how to do my float levels. Anyway, sorry for the war and peace but just needed to explain all was good so that you didn't think I was doing anything that might have got me into trouble.

I just today was reading a thread about adjusting the float bowls. search on oldroadie as a member and 'bowls' as the word. Hum bowls and Ed. Maybe I should rephrase that? No?