 Can it be fix
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Trying to tighting down the header bolts I now have two pieces that have broke off from the block. What are my options?
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Are you saying you snapped the studs? That can be fixed, easier if there's a stub you can work with, but it's fixable. If you just pulled the studs out and stripped the mount it's time to investigate Helicoil or Timesert thread repair.
Chunks of the cylinder are a different story and will probably require engine disassembly to repair, either by replacing the jugs or by welding up a filler pad and reboring/threading a new mount.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Can it be fix
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if you do end up needing new jugs I have some 790s with pistons I'm looking to sell. used but still good.
02 bonneville america, only bike i've owned, bought new. tpusa 994 big bore, Carillo rods, stage one head work, fcr 39 carbs, bc bomber pipes
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
Trying to tighting down the header bolts I now have two pieces that have broke off from the block. What are my options?
Are you talking about small pieces of the fins?
If so don't mention this to Dwight 
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2010
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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The header bolts are threaded into the head, not the jugs, or am I wrong.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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The header studs go into the head
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 16
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Hopefully the shadow will shed some light on exactly what is broken.
Last edited by mikemm03; 07/02/2013 7:09 PM.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
The header bolts are threaded into the head, not the jugs, or am I wrong.
You're right, I wasn't thinking, I reacted to the word "block". Still have to pull the heads if you're going to weld it up.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Hopefully the shadow will shed some light on exactly what is broken.
screw that, it's way more fun to speculate on the problem when given almost zero information 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Told me content currently unavailable when I went to look at the pic. If I had needed to sign in to see it I wouldn't have looked, I don't do facebook.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
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I couldn't see it either, we need better information to be helpful.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Jun 2013
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[image]http://http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/Lostnshadows71/media/image_zps5364c948.jpg.html[/image]
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Re: Can it be fix
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Ok hope that works this time
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Re: Can it be fix
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Here ya go. 
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Jun 2010
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you might be ok if there's still enough thread to hold a bolt tight. if not then i'm not really sure. those are the exhaust bolts.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2010
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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It looks as if the sealing ring is still intact, I would go with new copper rings and new studs. A person wouldn't even notice unless they knew it was there. Also not a inch lb. of torque beyond spec. I don't have the book in front of me, but I seem to remember some low value like 18 Newt.Meters, you better look it up, as my memory sucks.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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I would surely do that first before I went further. You'll know immediately if there's an exhaust leak; then you can source a competent machine shop to build it up and repair IF you need to. And, use your torque wrench.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
.......... And, use your torque wrench.
One that's not been used as a cheater bar and that IS calibrated.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Thanks for the info everyone
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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If there isn't enough thread left that could be welded up and drilled and tapped again but have to remove the head to do it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
Here ya go.
ouch, that sucks and I would cry if it were my head, even if there are plenty of threads left 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Does a big bore kit come wth heads? I've trying searching for them and came up empty, anyone have any liks for them?
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2010
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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New or used replacement heads come with a head, big bore kits do not. I have a head off of a wrecked '08, 2104 miles of use, and it came complete with cams, valves, etc. ready to bolt on. I got it from one of the used bike vendors on Ebay. Do not bother calling Pin Wall as they list everything they have inventoried and is currently for sale, not listed, not available. But there are 2 or 3 others in the used parts business and it might pay off to query them, find 'em on EBay.
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
New or used replacement heads come with a head...
OOH-K!? 
(OR did you mean the vendor you bought yours from threw in a little somethin' somethin'?) 
Peace.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Scott,
You probably have a local hot rod club or and independent V twin shop. Make contact, they'll know the machinist in your area that can build that up and rebore and tap the hole. Much cheaper than buying another head but not as fast. Either way you're going to have to pull the head. It's not so hard, patience and organization are the key elements to success.
But first just put in a new stud and gasket and find out if you have a leak. Better to ride the rest of the season with her a little wounded and then do the repair over the winter.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Can it be fix
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Thanks old roadie I might try that here in a bit
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Here at Ghetto Shed (with the head on the motor) we'd clean that area REAL, REAL well, with a final cleaning with lacquer thinner, lightly "chase" the threads in the head, install a new (NOT old, EVEN IF UNDAMAGED) stud, with an industrial grade epoxy (I have had great success with Simpson's construction epoxy) spread on the threads, JUST LIKE THREAD LOCKER [on the head side]), let that set for 48 hrs, then "butter" over the outside area with the same epoxy until it's built up slightly larger (bulkier) than the stock area (this epoxy can be filed/grinded after hardened, if necessary). Let it cure for at least 48 hrs. (no time for impatience here), and re-install the header pipe and torque to the light side of the torque spec. with cleaned, lightly oiled threads on the header pipe side of the stud only, AND A NEW WASHER, since this would be a ONE CHANCE ONLY attempt. BEST OF LUCK! 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Make sure you use an epoxy capable of withstanding better than 500ºF heat if attempting something like that. Head I would guess might reach 350ºF to 400º under extreme conditions. (could be wrong on the temp, just guessing.) I do remember on one of my dyno runs the tech commented how cool our heads run.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Simpson's Construction Epoxy will. I think it's tensile strength is around 7,500. And it's gas resistant. I've used it on our dirt bike heads and cylinders, and I've used it to repair the float bowl float pin boss in one of the GS carb's. Four years and tens of thousands of miles on the GS since then. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Can it be fix
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I tried to start a new stud and it wouldn't go on. I will probably attempt the last ideals later on, thanks for the ideal
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Why not try some JB Weld made for high heat applications. Says it's good for exhaust manifolds. Never tried the stuff but it might be worth adding to the new stud after it is installed in what's left of the threads. JB Weld - High Heat
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I have used JB Weld when making custom parts as an attaching agent and it holds up to the temps for years and so far hasn't failed. These don't have the stress that the stud would but that stuff is tough.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Can it be fix
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Erle, have you tried this on a motor that has as much vibration as the triumph motor?
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Erle, have you tried this on a motor that has as much vibration as the triumph motor?
No.
I've used this exact routine on my dirt bikes header studs that have broken off a piece of casting JUST LIKE what your pic shows, from smashing the header/muffler against Mother Earth and her Appurtenances . After the fix, they "hit the ground" (or fence/trees/etc.) almost EVERY time we ride! (Yeah, I'm NOT as good as I used to be). I'm sure they're exposed to more stresses then a street bikes vibration (EVEN Sportsters  ).
The Simpson epoxy is MOST often used in commercial building construction to retro-fit missing/misplaced reinforcing steel into foundations, slabs, columns that will be subj. to extreme tension (uplift, foundation movement/pull out, etc.)
If you tried to pull that epoxied stud out of that head after it's cured, you'll pull a BIG chunk out of the head, before that stuff lets go. Pay attention to the "One try only" comment!
I've also "Buttered over" the brittle, plastic carb. thingy that breaks EVERY TIME when cleaning the Ethanol ****** out of them. EVERY single piece to those carbs can be ordered, EXCEPT that little piece, and the plastic slide caps. Since those carbs are SO RARE, They are over $300 each, so Jerry-rigging is a MOST!
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Hey Scott, Two things to keep in mind here. #1. Be SURE the stud will be PROPERLY aligned perpendicular the head! THIS MUST BE DONE PRIOR TO APPLYING epoxy to the threads and installing into the head. #2. This IS NOT a "Proper fix". It is only a permanent, "on the bike" fix. Should last forever. BUT, removing the head and having it repaired at a machine shop would be best.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Why not try some JB Weld made for high heat applications. Says it's good for exhaust manifolds. Never tried the stuff but it might be worth adding to the new stud after it is installed in what's left of the threads. JB Weld - High Heat
I repaired a straight six Ford manifold on my 62 E100 with JB and it was still going strong six years later. Tough stuff and you can file it to shape, too.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Can it be fix
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Well, we put the epoxy on and let it set for a week and then yesterday put it all back together and used the copper permatex. I let that set for 24 hrs before I start and up and the thing still has an exaust leak. I'm very confused now
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Too bad you couldn't post a sound clip of the leak.
What about a picture of the header pipe where it goes into the head?
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Can it be fix
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Joined: May 2010
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Quote:
Here ya go.
I see enough mating surface to make a seal, and plenty of threads left to hold the tube fast, it's baffling to me, you can't make this work. One other thing, that is an abnormal amount of existing carbon buildup (in picture), could this have been leaking before you damaged the head?
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Re: Can it be fix
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Yes it was leaking before, that's what started the whole screw up
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