 More Sparkplug Options
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Should be Riding
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I have given up on getting the Splitfire plugs. I cannot seem to find them in any stores anywhere. I did order some online, but still havent gotten them after two months. Come to think of it, I never got a confirmation email and they never did actually charge me. So, they are out. I did hear a rumor that Splitfire went out of business, but haven't been able to confirm that. So.... Anyway... Besides the NGK Iridium Plugs (DPR9EIX-9), I have noticed that Denso also makes an iridium plug (IX24B) for our bikes. Here are the specs on the Denso Iridium IX24B: Iridium plug, 12mm thread, 19mm reach, 18mm hex, gasket seat, 0.4mm iridium projected center electrode, tapered cut U-groove ground, resistor, 0.35" gap Here are the specs on the NGK Iridium DPR9EIX-9: 12mm, 3/4" reach, 18mm hex, gasket seat, projected tip, resistor, fine wire (0.6mm) iridium center electrode, tapered cut ground electrode, 0.36"gap Just for the heck of it here are the specs for the Splitfire TP416B: 12mm, 3/4" reach, 11/16" hex, gasket seat, copper core, resistor, power tip, platinum fine wire center electrode, split "v" ground electrode w/platinum tips So.... which ones should I get? Soren
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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i have the ones off brents site, pretty sure the NGK ones and i am very happy with them. bike seems to run much better with them
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I Just installed the Iridium plugs from Brent. I only went for a short ride 4 miles didn't notice any difference from the stock plugs. It did start faster thought.
if life gives you lemons keep them because hey,free lemons.
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Should be Riding
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Just to confirm the number that the site I found them on was right, Is the spark plug number of the spark plugs from Brent DPR9EIX-9?
Soren
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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As far as I can find out, the iridium plug number for the TBA is DPR8EIX-9. Dunno what the difference is between the two, anybody else know ?
/Tiv
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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To reply to my own question, the difference between the 8 and 9 is apparently due to their temperature ratings.
/Tiv
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Should be Riding
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Wonder which one is right.
Soren
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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The 9 plug is slightly colder than the 8 plug.
NGK heat range numbers go colder as the number gets higher. Both 8 and 9 plugs are pretty chilly.
Oh, Splitfires are made by Autolite, or at least they used to be. Here's their web site: http://www.splitfire.com/
Last edited by PapaDean; 03/16/2006 10:09 PM.
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More About Sparkplugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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OP
Should be Riding
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So, my guess is that the hotter plug would be better in order to combust all the fuel more efficiently?
Soren
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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3/4 Throttle
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Quote:
So, my guess is that the hotter plug would be better in order to combust all the fuel more efficiently?
Soren
Not really. Plug heat range has to do with the ability of the plug to preclude heat at the tip. Too cold a heat range lets deposits build up on the plug. Too hot a plug lets the tip burn up from combustion temps. You can see that cold plugs have very little porcelain around the center electrode exposed to the combustion chamber, so it has less ability to pick up heat. Hotter plugs have more porcelain so they see more heat. On a modified engine, you may need a slightly colder plug, as the engine, making more power, will be making more heat.
A too hot spark plug can get to glowing and cause pre-ignition (not to be confused with detonation). A too cold plug can possibly lead to misfire, especially under a greater load, such as hard acceration, or going up a hill with your oversized sister-in-law on the back.
To get a proper heat range plug, start with a new stock one and "read" it after a hard, full throttle blast down the road (and shutting off the engine, pulling in the clutch, and coasting to a stop). The center electrode porcelain should be colored somewhat. What you are looking for is a medium brown deposit way up inside the plug, which sometimes takes a lighted magnifying glass to see. If the plug is pure white, it's lean; if it's really dark brown to black, it's too rich.
At least modern gasoline, though lower in octane rating, has less "junk" in to to foul plug gaps. That's why new cars can get away with such long service intervals on plugs.
What helps combustion is a large gap and a higher output ignition box (to be able to jump that larger gap). This gets the flame front going better. A winter bonfire is a good analogy: it's easier to start a big log fire with a plumber's blow torch than a small wooden match. Same in an engine with small and large plug gaps.
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Re: More Sparkplug Options
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I think JC Whitney still sells splitfires. I put iridiums in and couldn't tell any difference.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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The 8 is the right iridium. Trust me on this. I went thru a lot of research on the subject before i bought them. As for prformance, there is w/o the slightest shadow of a doubt a gain in power/accelleration compared to the standard NGK's. I actually spend a hour or so one day testing them. i went to a perticular stretch pf road and accellerated thru the gears with each plug a few time. I was actually suprised at how much difference they made. Iwill not go back to standard plug. Some may not notice it, but that doesn't mean it's not true. Some people are not nearly as sensitive to things like this as other. The best way to really see is to do as i did and do it on the same stretch of road because the bike can seem slower or faster depending on the road. Wider roads make the bike feel like it accelerates slower for example.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
The 8 is the right iridium.
Very cool! Thanks for all your trial and error research so the rest of us can benefit.
Using SparkPlugs.com cross reference and the Spark Plug Part-Number Interchange Guide that Phil posted, here are the equivalants I came up with using the NGK DPR8EA-9 :
Denso Iridium Racing IXU01-24 ($35.00)
Denso Iridium plug IX24B ($11.99)
NGK IX iridium DPR8EIX-9 ($6.95)
Splitfire Triple Platinum TP416C (No longer available)
Splitfire SF416C ($3.99)
NGK DPR8EA-9 ($2.24)
Autolite 4163 ($2.24)
Champion RA6HC ($2.24)
Denso X24EPR-U9 ($2.24)
I couldnt seem to track down much on the Bosch plugs except that spread sheet shows XR4CS as the regular Bosch spark plug number. I was hoping I could find an equivalent for the Bosch Platinum+4.
Soren
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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and you americans what about "motorcraft "sparkplugs?
had them in my old suzuki best ever plugs I had !!!!!!!!!!
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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nothing? 
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Hey GRZegorz, I don't think anyone was ignoring you its just that the NGKs seem to work the best on bikes. I drive a Ford truck and I don't use Motorcraft products. They have gone downhill a little. I switched my truck plugs to Champions. I will probably stay with NGKs when I change my bike plugs. I only have 1800 miles, don't need a change yet. Just waiting for weather to change.  Steve
Where's my $6 million??
05 TR America;2010 T-Bird
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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IKJ, The correct way to test to see if the plugs really made you bike faster would be to do a blind test with one of your good friends. Have your friend change both plugs out several times without you knowing which plugs are in the bike and you recording which times your bike seemed faster. If it matched up with the Iridiumn plugs then you would really know. He could even put the same plug in twice in a roll to really mix things up. You record, faster, slower, or no change. After several rounds of changes you would find out if what you think is correct. Of coarse this could also tell you that you are full of it, and maybe you really do not want to know that? But then again isn't a perceived performance gain as good as a real performance gain if there is no clock, track, or competetor?  Vegas
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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OK so where can one buy the NGK IX iridium DPR8EIX-9 plugs?
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Just about any auto parts store that carries NGK plugs should have them. I get my stock NGK plugs from Checker Auto Parts.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Derek, have you tried side gapping your bike plugs, yet?
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Well, believe what you want. But i spent the last 25 years of my life in a field that was constant testing of things which created subtle differences that are hard to determine as real or placebo. It's second nature to me. I know what to look for and look out for, and i'm not going to try and convince you because it really doesn't matter to me if you don't trust my findings. I know for an absolute fact they make the difference i discussed above and thats all that matters. So consider it placebo effect if you like, i happen to know better. You need to know me before you can even begin to know what the liklihood is of my making a incorrect judgment about the plugs. Quote:
IKJ, The correct way to test to see if the plugs really made you bike faster would be to do a blind test with one of your good friends. Have your friend change both plugs out several times without you knowing which plugs are in the bike and you recording which times your bike seemed faster. If it matched up with the Iridiumn plugs then you would really know. He could even put the same plug in twice in a roll to really mix things up. You record, faster, slower, or no change. After several rounds of changes you would find out if what you think is correct. Of coarse this could also tell you that you are full of it, and maybe you really do not want to know that? But then again isn't a perceived performance gain as good as a real performance gain if there is no clock, track, or competetor? Vegas
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Why doesn't Triumph recommend the Iridium plugs? It seems that NGK would cut them a deal if they switched to the more expensive iridium plugs as OEM since they would recoup the money many times over on replacement plugs. I've been a fan of Bosch Platnium plugs for a long time, but can't prove that they are any better than a regular OEM plug. They just make me feel better because I think that I'm using some new technology or materials. I have a local wrench turner that I have used for repairs on throw away cars, trucks, etc. and he felt strongly that only oem plugs should be used.
I'm going to check with the Advance Auto Parts store today to see if they can order the NGK Iridium plugs for my America. They may be 50%spark plugs and 50% snake oil, but I'll feel better thinking I've made an improvement. Before I put the new plugs in, I'll balance the carbs and get the bike running as good as I can, so if there is any noticable difference, maybe I can attribute it to the plugs/snake oil change.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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3/4 Throttle
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i'm running the oem ngk's 'almost' sidegapped. i lopped all but 2 pubimeters off the ground past the bend (easier to gap that way). not sure if was the new plugs or the cleaned out air filter(that had 2 cigarette butt filters in it  ) but she's running much much better now. no popping and good hard acceleration. the carbs are still not quite right though. i'm gonna spend the money on a balancer as i find its required more often than oil changes.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
OK so where can one buy the NGK IX iridium DPR8EIX-9 plugs?
Matt, all the plugs I listed above can be found at http://www.sparkplugs.com plus, I belive that Brent ( http://www.NewSpeedMaster.com ) sells them.
Soren
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
I've been a fan of Bosch Platnium plugs for a long time, but can't prove that they are any better than a regular OEM plug.
I use the Bosch Platinum Plus 4 plugs in my car. After switching from the stock regular plugs, I noticed a huge difference right away. I just was not able to track down any cross reference for the Bosch plugs, so I am not sure if they even make any that would be compatible for our bikes.
Soren
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
Why doesn't Triumph recommend the Iridium plugs? It seems that NGK would cut them a deal if they switched to the more expensive iridium plugs as OEM since they would recoup the money many times over on replacement plugs.
Yes, but it gives us a quick and easy upgrade to look forward to 
Soren
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Any of you guys bother to "index" the plugs?
That is where you make sure the electrode gap is pointed directly at the intake valves/carbs for optimum ignition. We used to do that on the motoX track all the time. You just use a very thin washer to get the alignment right. We made a mark on the plug and screwed in in until it lined up where we wanted, using various washers to get the angle correct.
I haven't done mine this way in years, just wondering if anyone still does it though.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Never heard of that, but it makes sense.
Soren
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Thanks Dinqua for another great tidbit of info. If you
keep telling us your secrets, we may learn something here. Did you turn the plug so the ground would be 90 degrees to the intake or pointing there?
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Derek, have you tried side gapping your bike plugs, yet?
Nope. I'm not one to do too much tinkering on my bike outside of the usual mods. I still have my airbox in.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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I ordered the NGK Iridiums DPR8EIX-9 PDQ (parts delivered quickly) overnight from Advance Auto Parts. They were $6.96 each. I'll buy a set of the copper washers and index the plugs. Thanks Pat. Indexing will be especially helpful if the plug gap would have been hidden from the combustion chamber/exhaust by the ground if simply torqued in.
As Soren said, the plugs are a cheap and easy upgrade. Oh, I won't forget to use some copper anti seize on the threads. It will mess up your torque values some, so you may need to reduce the force a few Nm, but it could save the threads in the head.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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From the NGK (Australia) site: "4. Heat Range With modified engines (those engines that have increased their compression) more heat is a by-product of the added power that normally comes with increased compression. In short, select one heat range colder for every 75-100 hp you add, or when you significantly raise compression. Also remember to retard the timing a little and to increase fuel enrichment and octane. These tips are critical when adding forced induction (turbos, superchargers or nitrous kits), and failure to address ALL of these areas will virtually guarantee engine damage. An engine that has poor oil control can sometimes mask the symptom temporarily by running a slightly hotter spark plug. While this is a "Band-Aid" approach, it is one of the only examples of when and why one would select a hotter spark plug. " Not sure about the 75-100hp though. I'd like see it in a Speedie 
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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I respect your opinion Dazco; However, I have a pair of 9s to put in my Speedie. Waddya reckon, please. Quote:
Well, believe what you want. But i spent the last 25 years of my life in a field that was constant testing of things which created subtle differences that are hard to determine as real or placebo. It's second nature to me. I know what to look for and look out for, and i'm not going to try and convince you because it really doesn't matter to me if you don't trust my findings. I know for an absolute fact they make the difference i discussed above and thats all that matters. So consider it placebo effect if you like, i happen to know better. You need to know me before you can even begin to know what the liklihood is of my making a incorrect judgment about the plugs.
Quote:
IKJ, The correct way to test to see if the plugs really made you bike faster would be to do a blind test with one of your good friends. Have your friend change both plugs out several times without you knowing which plugs are in the bike and you recording which times your bike seemed faster. If it matched up with the Iridiumn plugs then you would really know. He could even put the same plug in twice in a roll to really mix things up. You record, faster, slower, or no change. After several rounds of changes you would find out if what you think is correct. Of coarse this could also tell you that you are full of it, and maybe you really do not want to know that? But then again isn't a perceived performance gain as good as a real performance gain if there is no clock, track, or competetor? Vegas
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Loquacious
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dazco, what measurement instruments did you use for these speed trials. How did you account for wind, temperature, etc... I also do product validation testing. Also, NGK recommends the 9, not the 8 for the Iridium, which I would assume is released to the general public through application trials and validation testing (since a mis-application could lead to litigation), just as my company (which makes car parts) does. Not knocking what you're saying, but more details please, other than "trust me, I know what I'm doing", cause I don't know you, so I don't know that you know what you're doing. Iridiums
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Fuel and air in the correct ratio enter the cylinder as a mist (vapour). All valves closed > piston rises > compresses the hell out of the vapour > a big fat spark comes along and BANG a few thousand degree explosion occurs > piston is forced down.
I guess I sometimes oversimplify things.
Aussies have got.....BUNDY RUM!!
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Bayern710,
Ok, well you don't know me and therefore don't trust what i'm saying. I understand that fully. But unfortunatly i can't give you more than i have. All i can say is that i've been there done that with all kinds of testing of subtle differences to the point where what used to be very hard for me to tell is now almost like nite and day. One reason I know that because i notice things that are to me absolutly definate which i see many others finding it hard to notice the diff. And i've been there too. Also it must be noted that there ARE differences between our bikes which can also account for the differing opinions. Some one who felt no difference may be able to ride MY bike with stock and then iridium plugs and feel the difference easily.
But again, sorry i can't show you a dyno or some such proof. All i can offer you is the opinion of someone who's a long ways from being new to this kind of thing. I'd bet my life or any family member's life on what i believe was a unquestionable increase in midrange accelleration. Thats how sure i am. I'm 100% sure. More than that i can't give you. But understand that because differences between your bike and mine, your sensitivity to feeling the diff compared to mine, and any number of other reasons, you may well notice nothing. What i noticed was enough so that with the stock plug in i felt the bike was lacking in accelleration, which is something i haven't felt since i got all my mods done including the irridiums. Since that point i have been happy with it. As soon as i put the stockers back in i felt like i did before i had all the mods done......disappointed. I know when something i seem to feel is too subtle to the point where it could be placebo effect. When thats the case i always admit that. But not here.I don't like fooling myself or others.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Learned Hand
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Not to get in the middle of a good argument, but Greg the site you posted is not the 'official' NGK site. It has a disclaimer at the top of the homepage that "WE ARE NOT NGK SPARKPLUGS USA" (their all caps, not mine). I think it was posted somewhere else that the official NGK site is NGKsparkplugs.com and they list the IR for an America as DPR8EIX-9.
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Re: More About Sparkplugs
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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jj,
I saw that also after I went looking deeper. Thankfully, I must have used the official site, and so have the 8's on my bike.
Last edited by Bayern710; 05/20/2006 2:07 PM.
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