Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Riding Technique Riding in Groups

The few times I have ridden with other bikes in a group, it seemed odd at times that the lead bike did not seem to know that his position should be to the left side of the lane allowing the others to stagger behind. Now I would not know that unless I had heard or read that somewhere. Is this not a safe riding practise that is taught in the MSF class? (Wondering where else I could have heard it.)

Keith,
There was a good post on the old boards/archives by Becky or someone that really went into detail about group riding. It was quite a detailed description if I recall correctly. That may be where you read that info....

There was a statistic made (I think it was MCN). Most people don't enjoy riding in groups and the main reason given was trying to adhere to rules which makes the ride less enjoyable.

The first rule of group riding is "ride your own ride".

Also you can't expect the guy up front or leader to always be in the left of center. There are safety issues. So this staggering concept is actually not safe unless you are in a parade going 10mph.

I understand that some of you live for this group riding experience. If you do, please ignore. Being one who prefers solo riding and who has experienced group riding in numbers ranging from 2 to 4 bikes to groups in excess of hundreds, my opinion is;

1. Group riding is totally contradictory to the independent spirit of motorcycle riding.
2. Group riding is dangerous at best – even when the majority of riders considers themselves as ‘experienced’
3. The enjoyment of any comradeship is experienced at stops and destinations and not during the actual ride itself.
4. The smaller the group, the better your chance of survival
5. The notion that riders should maintain close proximity to the rider in front is better left to the Blue Angels unless you are actually participating in a low speed parade.
6. Groups should put more effort into planning stops, times, and destinations than riding formation, giving those participating the opportunity to mix, mingle, and converse rather than fret over riding distances and riding pace.
7. Groups should consist of persons with a common destination rather than a parade unless having a parade is the main objective. This allows for safe riding distances, intermingling traffic can be just what it is – intermingling traffic. There’s no need to preserve space, or participate in acts of road rage.
8. Every group should have the means to communicate with the leader in case of breakdowns, accidents. This can be accomplished through a ‘buddy’ system and enhanced with cell phones and predetermined stops and checkpoints.
9. Group riding – in its usually accepted form – at least the actual riding time – is generally a time of white knuckles and clenched butt cheeks.
10. Parade style formations at normal traffic speed is like lemmings looking for that perfect cliff.
11. IMO – Leave me out of the parade. I’ll see ya when I get there. That’s where the fun is.

Ride Safe, Ride SOON, Ride Often,
The Doctor

Great Post Pipedr,
In response to the Leader question, according to AMA-MSC the leader should be on the left side of the lane. This is also where you would ride solo so it makes sense. It is preferrable to stagger subsequent riders for more visability, increased stopping distance (if everyone stays on their side of the lane), and better rider vision. Personally, if I don't ride with more than 2-3 people and we're so spread out it doesn't matter. I like to pass the staggered formations, though...

MCN has a good article on this info here.
I prefer riding alone or in a small group at most. The Ga thing was pretty cool, as long as you all stay farther apart than you normally think...

pipedr,

Ditto extremo...

Nothing sucks the joy out of riding faster than being in a large group of riders with varying skill levels. Maybe it's our terrain around these parts, but I also prefer solo riding or a small group of equally skilled friends who know each others habits.

That being said, when the weather gets nice, you and me and TR6 and maybe a few others got to get together for some Laurel Highlands escapades.....

Grump,
I look forward to a ride through the Highlands. Did you know Rick before he bought his triumph(s). It looks like he's from your neck of the woods.

I agree, PipeDr. A group to me is too large if it is over 3 or 4. I see no fun in these large group rides like Toy Runs with 200 - 5,000 people. I might make an exception to a BA.com ride though.

-PES

Yeah, Group rides detract from the moment. Except the BA.com rides. Where else you gonna be able to see your ride in motion? The stagger formation is cool, but that's all it is. I like a lot of room. More like a 5 second rule. Staggered formations are no fun when you get passed by the rider behind you and he/she dosen't even realize what they just did! Gotta stay on top of not only the cages but the other riders as well during a group ride. The Toy runs are mayhem. Great causes but running at idle speed for three hours is hard to handle. Group riding has its place.

I enjoy riding in a group and solo. We ride with up to 15 bikes at one time. When we have this many we usually have the two designated leaders. (these guys set a nice pace for everyone.) No one tries to keep the pack truely together which can sacrifice safety. We all know where the final destination is and will all arrive when we arrive. I enjoy the compainionship at the stops, usually for gas or food. There are some people I only see during the summer months for riding season. However, we have our moments when the front riders to to fast for the pack. We are all respected to ride at our own pace.
We ride in a true staggered formation, but we usually leave more then the two seconds between riders.
For example: During a ride, some of the faster bikes were going a little faster then they should have. I was following my best friends husband on his Indian (My TBA) I had left a good distance between us. When I came around a very sharp corner, all I could see was dirt in the air. I found my best friends hubby and his Indian on the ground. I was the first one on the scene. Although only his pride was injured, if I was driving a car behind him I could have run him over.
To make a long story longer... I like to have someone to ride with. It is a way to show off our stuff and enjoy the ride with those I would not normally see.
AND I love TOY RUN'S! I just remember it is for the KIDS.
Cindy

know your limits and ride your limits!!! i dont mind rideing with others, although i do prefer to be by myself. to me staggerd makes the most sense, forget about rules just stay far enough behind each other that everyone is comfortable. if there is a big seperation and not all are sure of the route, than you dont make a turn without waiting for the whole group to gather. there should always be a tail gunner that can contact the leader. MOST IMPORTANT... This is all best done in the county, city group rideing...SUCKS!!!! staggered makes the most sense, oncomming traffic can see more than one light, and when you get to a light everyone has a place.

I have only ridden solo since I got my TA in 2003. Years ago on my Bonnie I only rode in small groups, I think 18 bikes was the largest. But that was enough to show me the hazards involved depending on the route.
As newt says, city riding is the worst, but out on the 55 mph. 2 lanes has it's own unique dangers. I still remember cars trying to pass us and cutting into the middle of the group, trying to pass slower moving traffic and members of the group taking bad risks to try to stay with the group, and riders being distracted and not paying attention to what the group was doing (I confess, I did that a few times). To me, it just takes all the fun out of riding.

Good article Pat, thanks. Our local Red Men club started a riders club and I've been on a few rides with these folks, definitely takes some practice. I typically hang towards the back, feel safer in the rears.
On NY Day, we rode together and I was in the middle of the group. After one stop, a guy was with us I didn't recognize on a new Fat Boy. The group turned right off a two lane and the guy went straight. We were in staggered rows of two, fortunately I was far enough back from this guy that I didn't turn into him as he rode staight. (I was on his left side) Scared the guys in back of me but I was safe - didn't trust a guy that I hadn't ridden with previously.

One good thing about riding in groups. If you hang out at the back like I always do, at least maybe the guys in front will clear all the road hazards and animals for you. Course this may or may not work. I seldom ride in groups and the ones i'v been fortunate enough to ride with we generally spread out with only a couple of bikes close to each other and a good sized gap between us. If some of the group wants to ride faster, let um go. We all know where we are going anyway. Well mostly we do. Then again getting lost is most of the fun anyway. And you get to ask or be asked where'd you guys get off too.

Since it was a sunny 64 degree New Years Day, my buddy Vito & I went on the Southern Cruisers cheesesteak ride going from Northeast Philly down to South Philly. There were at least 50 bikes, maybe more. The entire trip was on city streets. Now the Cruisers are very organized and they have people who stop traffic at intersections so the whole group can get through and then roar back to the front of the pack. Very impressive organization that goes into this kind of stuff. I hung towards the back as Vito and I always do (he is okay for a Sprint rider), but this was not my idea of a good day. Too much stress associated with a bunch of people I do not know riding right in front of me, stagger or not. Pissed off Philly drivers who are incensed that they had to wait on a green light so a bunch of "bikers" can stay together.

The toy runs are great. Drop off your toys on the way. Go to the meeting point and park. Walk around and look at all the cool bikes, talk to people and then take a long ride in the opposite direction when the thing actually starts.

When I'm on the TBA, I really like riding alone. But when on the Thrux with a bunch of sportbikes, it can be invigorating in the turns with a group. We're really well spaced out though. To each his or her own.

For many years I found group dirt riding to be about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on...as long as I was with riders I was familiar with, knowing what they were likely to do in any given situation. Oddly, I find group street riding to be much less enjoyable than solo riding...and I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe if it was with the right group?? Hard to tell.

Danny,
Dirt riding in groups is a whole different animal. You take care of each other and the trees don't usually jump out in front of you or bend down to reach their cel phones...

On the road it's a totally different environment. "They" are out there trying to kill you....

I guess I am lucky as we don't do any "city" riding, as I live in a rural community. We all know better to ride ourside our limits.
It is different when someone is wielding a 3000 lb weapon toward you and you know your 19 year old daughter is two bikes behind, you make sure the car KNOWS you are there as it can save someone elses life.
Cindy

When group riding on a two lane road the front left rider should be the leader during the ride. The reasons are the same as why a solo rider should be in the left side of the lane. When riding with friends that I am very familiar with we don't stagger, but ride parallel. During turns we stagger with the left rider taking the lead in a left turn and the right rider taking the lead in a right turn. I wouldn't recommend parallel riding unless you know the other rider very well and both of you know what each is doing and why.

When group riding on four lane roads the lead rider shifts between the left rider and the right rider depending on which lane you are in. When in the right hand lane the left rider is in the lead. When in the left hand lane the right rider is in the lead. The lead rider initiates a lane change. Generally you are only in the left hand lane to pass slower traffic. So when shifting from the right hand lane the lead rider signals moving into the left hand lane and the right rider follows and once in the left hand lane the right rider takes the lead and determines when to shift back into the right hand lane. Again the reasoning for this is the same as why you solo ride the left side of the right lane and the right side of the left lane.

It all has to do with flow, visibility and maintaining your position on the road.

When riding with a group of riders that you are not familiar with then it is best to be in the lead, create as much space between you and the riders in front or just ride at the back of the pack.

Tom

One reason I seldom participate in the many charity rides that are currently popular is because I don't trust riding so close to some stranger, especially the sort of weekend warriors who go on these things in hope of getting their picture in the news.

Group riding is best left to established, well organised clubs who strictly follow a set of well defined rules.
Here is a typical rule set:
1. The road captain will research the route for every planned club ride, planning stops based on the bike with the shortest range and the physical needs of all the members.
2. The formation is, road captain at the front left. Prospective and new members near the front, as it is easier to avoid someone who gets stupid than to get out of their way. The best mechanics ride at the rear to stop and help anyone who has to drop out.
3. The formation should be staggered with enough spacing to be able to avoid a chain reaction pileup, but close enough that idiot cagers won't break in. Side-by-side riding is for parades and such, not fun rides.
4. There should be an established set of signals that everyone understands. Signals should be passed along the ranks to make sure everyone sees them. Radio intercoms should not be used, one broken radio could cause a disaster.
5. Everyone should be briefed on the route in case they are separated for some reason. The ride pace should be slow enough to allow separated members to safely catch upp.
6. Lane changes for the purpose of passing slower traffic should originate with the road captain. After passing, the pace should be adjusted to allow the rest to pass safely and fall back in line. The road captain should make sure everyone is back in line before picking up the pace.
7. Lane changes for the purpose of turning onto another roadway should start at the rear of the group. This is so that the rest have a clear lane to move into.

It definitely makes a difference who you ride with. I enjoy riding with my buddy Jake a lot. He's a very experienced rider (over 15 years) and showed me the ropes a lot last year, which was my first year. We know each other's riding styles and it's always an enjoyable ride. I enjoy riding with him as much as I enjoy riding alone.

At my work there are a lot of riders. When they organize a ride, there are usually 10-15 people. Last year I went on a few rides with them and learned they all have very different riding styles, and some of them are downright frustrating to ride with.

On one trip they asked me to lead (since I knew the route really well and some of the others didn't). I said I wasn't totally comfortable in doing so since it was my first year of riding and I hadn't lead a group before. They all encouraged me and said it wasn't anything special. So, I lead the group for a stretch, only to find out it was very irritating because people didn't listen. Every time we pulled up to a stoplight everybody started discussing if we should turn because somebody knew a cool road up one way or another. One time about half the group went one way while I lead the other half the other way (down the planned route). Then when we recollected they said "I thought we were going to go up this way - didn't you hear us?" I finally got irritated enough that I gave up. It was poorly organized and I'm not so sure I'll ride with them again, even though they are my friends at work.

Reminds me of a rather loosely knit club that used to hang out in Hollywood some years ago. Often, on Saturday night, they would all go on an impromptu run down Sunset to the beach abd back. I was in a club that had some rules for group riding and I was used o a bit of discipline. One time (once was enough!) I let them talk me into going along. It wasn't a club ride, it was a bloody road brawl. Instead of holding their position, it was more like they were racing. At stoplights, they scattered and several would drop as far back as they could because this one character had a problem with stopping and would haul a$$ up the middle running over peoples feet! On this particular night, he scraped his pipes on a curb a couple of times and was really proud of himself because he had made it all the way to the beach without falling for once. I waited for them to leave, then went home a different way.

I had a similar experience on the Robby Knievel ride I went on last fall. This was a day ride down to Nogales from an RV dealer in Tucson where Robby was doing a jump the next day. There was a film crew with a guy in the back of a pickup truck holding up a camera and shooting the ride. Well it turned into a free for all as everybody wanted to get their mugs on film. It was without a doubt the most dangerous ride I've ever been on. What made it even worse was when one of Knievel's posse ran out of gas through some tight curves, and everybody starts pulling off the road where there's almost zero shoulder right after a blind corner. I thought for sure some rancher with a big pickup was going to plow into that group. No way was I stoppin', so I blasted ahead of everybody and just kept going.

I think I've seen some recent commercials for Robby Knievel's show that's supposed to be on A&E. I wonder if they'll use any of the tape from that ride? I'm hoping I don't show up on TV now that I think back to all the idiots that were around me.

This kind of information is why I love this site. I just got back into riding after 20 years without a bike. Things have changed so much since the late 70's and early 80's. I consider my self a novice rider at this point and I'm still getting used to the bike. I think I'm going to avoid large groups for now. There's alot of great tips and cautions on the previous posts and it's a real eye-opener. Thanks everyone.

I have taken many rides with groups. It can be a hassle. I really do not like the staggered configuration. Too crowded, too many bikes to watch.
I rode in Greece with a group. They do not ride staggered. Just single file and stay to the right. This seems to be very good. the fast riders would be in a group ahead and the slower guys would be in another group. Rather than watching out for the other bikes and trying to keep up, it was much easier for us to look out for each other. Staggering double file in one lane is some 'B' movie biker crap, I hate it and do not ride like that even if the I am with a group that does