 turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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The crown had video evidence of the driver straddling the line between the turn lane and through lane and not signaling and he was acquitted because the motorcyclist MIGHT HAVE BEEN SPEEDING!
link link 2
 
Wow, no justice ! 
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well, here I go bein' the guy with the unpopular opinion again!
SORRY fellas, but I'm thinkin' even IF the motorcyclist wasn't speeding(and according to one witness he thought he was)this MIGHT be another case of a motorcyclists either not paying attention to things inside the "Circle of Danger" in front of him, OR if he DID notice the cager coming in the opposite direction and the aligning of his car in an unusual manner(reportedly situated across two lanes of traffic), then the motorcyclist might have just ignored that OBVIOUS telltale sign that the cagers MIGHT perform some even DUMBER maneuver right in front of him such as pulling directly into his path, and thus SHOULD HAVE slowed down immediately upon recognizing this scenario.
And NO, while I'm sorry the rider died, and NO, while I'm NOT "blaming" his own fate COMPLETELY on the rider, I DO THINK in MANY cases these sorts of things CAN sometimes be avoided IF motorcylcists are ALWAYS looking for even the FAINTEST of evidience that somebody up ahead of them is doing SOMETHING just a little out of the ordinary!
(...okay folks, now it YOUR turn to jump on me for sayin' this OBVIOUS truth here...don't worry, I can take it....oh and YEAH, this MIGHT all be just suppositions on MY part, but I'm thinkin' NO more so than always always drawing the conclusion that: The motorcylist is always COMPLETELY in the right, "dead right" sometimes, and the cager is always COMPLETELY in the wrong!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Not going to jump all over you Dwight because I agree with most of it. The rider probably could have avoided if he was more aware of his surroundings but, and this is a big but, the riders inattention was not a violation of the traffic act. He was in his own lane. He may have been going a little fast although no proof of that. The guy in the SUV was the one didn't fully enter the turn lane, didn't signal and cut in front of the bike.
As a motorcyclist I try to anticipate stupid drivers but the onus is on the car drivers to drive according to the rules of the road.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Not going to jump all over you Dwight because I agree with most of it. The rider probably could have avoided if he was more aware of his surroundings but, and this is a big but, the riders inattention was not a violation of the traffic act. He was in his own lane. He may have been going a little fast although no proof of that. The guy in the SUV was the one didn't fully enter the turn lane, didn't signal and cut in front of the bike.
As a motorcyclist I try to anticipate stupid drivers but the onus is on the car drivers to drive according to the rules of the road.
+1 in this case chances are I would have slowed expecting the stupid move.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Methinks your speaking out your arse Dwight. So motorcyclist are to be held responsible for every dumb move that another motorist makes. And if the said motorcyclist doesn't happen to be telepathic or he is unlucky enough to encounter two dumb acts taking place, and diverts full attention to one, while the other one kills him, it's tough luck cause he wasn't paying enough attention. SHITE.
Mayhaps, if the powers that be, started giving out serious jail time to arseholes that don't see motorcyclists, said arseholes may just may start paying a bit more attention whilst driving.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well, wouldn't that be nice to THINK so Colin, but it isn't ever going to happen...UNLESS almost "Draconian" laws are put into place that would necessitate and almost guarantee a conviction in these types of, yes, ACCIDENTS! Now, if the guy was DRUNK, then I say book the friggin' BOOK at him, BUT according to these reports here, it appears this was just another case of the thousands upon thousdands of accidents which occur daily in all industrialized nations, and which are most commonly caused by...yep sorry...the "I Didn't See That Other Vehicle Coming, But I Sure Didn't Want To Hit It" Syndrome...be they motorcycles OR cars involved. And, while I understand your frustration here, remember, I've ALSO been ridin' these bad boys for over 45 years now myself, so I've pretty much seen it all and been PISSED OFF(I mean THAT in the American lexicon of "ANGRY" here, NOT "drunk" btw) by what I've seen on the road all these years, BUT even IF those "Draconian laws" ARE ever passed, I REALLY doubt that they would have much affect upon the EYESIGHT and/or the vast majority of all the instantaneous decision-making people are required to perform while parkin' their asses behind the wheel of car...or while on a motorcycle. (...and so, in the MEANTIME, I'll just advise you ONE MORE TIME here that EVERY TIME you see someone doin' somethin' just even a LITTLE squirrely out there, SLOW DOWN a bit and be prepared for what might be comin' next...well, that IS of course UNLESS your ULTIMATE pleasure IS to always be "DEAD RIGHT"!!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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New Tires
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I have no idea what the law is in Ottawa, but many states in the USA a driver negates his legal right of way if speeding. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Loquacious
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He might have been acquitted on this charge but the family still has the right to proceed with a civil suit.
I bet they win that one if anybody can call this mess.... "winning".
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Methinks your speaking out your arse Dwight. So motorcyclist are to be held responsible for every dumb move that another motorist makes. And if the said motorcyclist doesn't happen to be telepathic or he is unlucky enough to encounter two dumb acts taking place, and diverts full attention to one, while the other one kills him, it's tough luck cause he wasn't paying enough attention. SHITE.
Mayhaps, if the powers that be, started giving out serious jail time to arseholes that don't see motorcyclists, said arseholes may just may start paying a bit more attention whilst driving.
I still believe that an automobile driver's license should not be available until one has spent at least one year on a motorcycle (that would make the cagers more aware that there are smaller moving targets out there). However, since we are smaller and much easier to crush and kill, though not the law, we HAVE to be more aware and anticipate stupidity from all of our four-wheeled roadmates.
I would be unstoppable if not for law enforcement and physics.
2002, Cardinal Red & Silver
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I have no idea what the law is in Ottawa, but many states in the USA a driver negates his legal right of way if speeding.
Over here the speed of the vehicles has to be proven to be a factor in the accident, so in this case the motorcycles speed would have had to been proven, and then also proven that if he had not been speeding (if he was) he could have avoided the accident.
Also, we have a charge of Causing Death by Careless Driving, so while this cager might not have been driving dangerously, he was definitely careless which could have got him 5 years
BTW Dwight, pissed off means the same over here as over there. Pissed is when you're drunk, so if you ever come over for a visit be careful what you say if you're pulled over by a cop and are annoyed about it 
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Thanks, Bryn. So, the preposition "off" makes it somewhat universal in meaning then, huh?! (...I'll keep this one in my "Future Reference" file...along side that "hood/bonnet" and "trunk/boot" page) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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As a rule there is no such thing as an "accident." Someone is almost always at fault, the question should be, was it reasonably foreseeable? In this case the driver was completely at fault and the law, ass that it is, let him off. I guess, by using that logic, if I buy a big truck and run over anyone violating any traffic laws I'm in the clear. I guess WC Fields out running over "Road Hogs" was just ahead of his time.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well, I wouldn't say you'd be completely "in the clear". Larry. (...but I DO appreciate you usin' an old movie reference to attempt to make your point here, ol' buddy!...yep, you know ME and those old movies, don't ya!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Sometimes one person is totally at fault. sometimes there is shared responsibility.
Often when it is one person who is solely at fault the other still could have avoided the accident, not implying that a person who is not at fault shares responsibility for the accident.
But, often an accident can be avoided by the person who is totally in the right by being aware of the asshat who cares not for anyone other than himself.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Oil Expert
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We have one in nearby east Tennessee where a State Trooper pulled a boneheaded maneuver and killed a couple of motorcyclists. The other State Troopers investigating, as always, found he did nothing wrong (in speeding without lights and sirens and making a 180 degree turn, in a curve, across double yellow lines).
He tried the same move about a year later on it was a tractor trailer instead of motorcyclists he cut off. Dead right there.
In his 'honor' they have named a nearby stretch of Interstate (very close to where he killed the motorcyclists) in his honor. I make it a point to spit every time I ride that section.
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turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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The way I look at it, improper care and control of a firearm that results in someone's death is considered criminally negligent manslaughter. Yet, when someone's improper care and control of a vehicle results in someone's death it is “not at the level where a penal sanction should be imposed”.
That's Crap.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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This guys is still walking the streets. The motorcyclists were stopped at a traffic light. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcEqASpA8H8What the report didn't state was it was a supervisor who insisted he be taken to the non certified lab. The only time that has happened since the rule was put in place three years prior.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Quote:
The way I look at it, improper care and control of a firearm that results in someone's death is considered criminally negligent manslaughter. Yet, when someone's improper care and control of a vehicle results in someone's death it is “not at the level where a penal sanction should be imposed”.
That's Crap.
Not so much in the US. Last winter some fella here in Asheville was collecting ginseng and wearing all the appropriate garb. Shot and killed. No charges filed.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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New Tires
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I have to agree with BigBill and Dwight on this. Besides, no good to society or the taxpayers would come from imprisoning this guy. He presents no more threat than any other momentarily inattentive driver, cage or cycle.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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I have to agree with BigBill and Dwight on this. Besides, no good to society or the taxpayers would come from imprisoning this guy. He presents no more threat than any other momentarily inattentive driver, cage or cycle.
So you reckon it's ok to go killing folk do you Mac?, as long as you do it with your car. And remember to say how sorry you are afterwards.
I'm willing to bet that attitude would change real fast if it were one of your own that got wiped out by some arsehole.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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New Tires
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Quote:
Quote:
I have to agree with BigBill and Dwight on this. Besides, no good to society or the taxpayers would come from imprisoning this guy. He presents no more threat than any other momentarily inattentive driver, cage or cycle.
So you reckon it's ok to go killing folk do you Mac?, as long as you do it with your car. And remember to say how sorry you are afterwards.
I'm willing to bet that attitude would change real fast if it were one of your own that got wiped out by some arsehole.
I can think of a lot of cases a society can justify killing "folk". I also think it's presumptuous of you to think someone with as large family I come from never experienced a death in an automobile or cycle accident. It's a painful experience, but I guess it all depends on one's view concerning how much of the rule of law should be used for justice or revenge.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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I live in ottawa so i've watched the video several times trying to figure out what happened. The car is making a left turn on a green light. The bike seems to hit the passenger side of the car at a pretty good clip. I just don't see how he was going to stop for his red light.
The only scenario i can see is that the bike was coming up on the red preparing to stop then saw the car would be in his stopping area and decided to go wide.
I'll maybe go and look at the corner tomorrow.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Quote:
I have to agree with BigBill and Dwight on this. Besides, no good to society or the taxpayers would come from imprisoning this guy. He presents no more threat than any other momentarily inattentive driver, cage or cycle.
So you reckon it's ok to go killing folk do you Mac?, as long as you do it with your car. And remember to say how sorry you are afterwards.
I usually expect the straw man arguments to come from a different source.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Quote:
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I have to agree with BigBill and Dwight on this. Besides, no good to society or the taxpayers would come from imprisoning this guy. He presents no more threat than any other momentarily inattentive driver, cage or cycle.
So you reckon it's ok to go killing folk do you Mac?, as long as you do it with your car. And remember to say how sorry you are afterwards.
I'm willing to bet that attitude would change real fast if it were one of your own that got wiped out by some arsehole.
I can think of a lot of cases a society can justify killing "folk". I also think it's presumptuous of you to think someone with as large family I come from never experienced a death in an automobile or cycle accident. It's a painful experience, but I guess it all depends on one's view concerning how much of the rule of law should be used for justice or revenge.
Yep, I think this is one for the civil courts. And perhaps an example of how our justice system should focus on restitution for certain cases instead of imprisonment.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Just curious, is killing someone with your car due to impairment because of inattention or distraction any different than killing them because of impairment due to drunkenness? If person chooses to text or talk is that any different than choosing to drink? If so then why?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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New Tires
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Quote:
Just curious, is killing someone with your car due to impairment because of inattention or distraction any different than killing them because of impairment due to drunkenness? If person chooses to text or talk is that any different than choosing to drink? If so then why?
That's a trick question. First the BAC limit isn't an indicator of drunkenness, it's a full employment program for lawyers and corporate psychologist. Secondly, "distracted" driving includes everything from drinking coffee, eating food, cell use, talking to a passenger and the list goes on, yes studies indicate "distracted" driving causes more accidents, deadly or otherwise, than those caused by alcohol use. The real difference is the productive benefits to society from those things that cause "distracted" driving.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Quote:
Just curious, is killing someone with your car due to impairment because of inattention or distraction any different than killing them because of impairment due to drunkenness? If person chooses to text or talk is that any different than choosing to drink? If so then why?
That's a trick question. First the BAC limit isn't an indicator of drunkenness, it's a full employment program for lawyers and corporate psychologist. Secondly, "distracted" driving includes everything from drinking coffee, eating food, cell use, talking to a passenger and the list goes on, yes studies indicate "distracted" driving causes more accidents, deadly or otherwise, than those caused by alcohol use. The real difference is the productive benefits to society from those things that cause "distracted" driving.
Excellent points there, Mac.
I'll just add here that because "drunk" driving which consists of a willful disregard of present laws and thus is a conscious decision made before any possible vehicular "INCIDENT" might ensue, and thus should never be construed in the same manner as "ACCIDENTS", where an INADVERTENT and MOMENTARY loss of good judgement at a SECOND'S NOTICE by otherwise reasonably competent operators are the primary causes.
And if you ask me, I believe every state in the Union should adopt laws against the "CONSCIOUS"(once again the operative word here) decision to text while driving, as there is NO possible way anyone involved in doing THAT can be focused upon the job at hand of operating a vehicle in a safe and/or even CLOSE to proficient manner while doing so.
(...though I'll bet half the people out there who do this mistakenly "believe" they can "multi-task" such as this, the other half actually realizing that they're risking their own lives and the lives of others out there while doing this but just CONSCIOUSLY decide to disregard those hightened risks..the freakin' morons...yep, in MY book and in a "worst case scenario", THEY would be NO better than all the freakin' DRUNKS who commit homicide while behind the wheel every single day in the world after THEY make their CONSCIOUS decision beforehand...of course, I COULD just be "talkin' outta my arse" here, huh!!! 
Last edited by Dwight; 12/02/2012 7:27 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Dwight good points. I like that you said, "mistakenly "believe" they can "multi-task"", most studies suggest "multi-tasking" at anything is a myth and those that think they are the best at "multi-tasking" are the worse at it. In almost all cases "multi-tasking" degraded performance at each task. That may also be a non-moral case for monogamy? 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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 Yeah, I suppose one COULD make THAT case TOO, Mac! (...though I gotta feelin' that argument MIGHT all be lost on a certain Warren Jeffs!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Talking of texting and driving 
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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WOW! Is HIS Daddy ever gonna be "pissed OFF" about his Corvette OR WHAT, huh Bryn???!!! (...see?!...now didn't I tell ya I'd file that particular "prepositional phrase" in my "Future Reference File" the other day?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Talking of texting and driving
they must have found his head in the back seat OF ANOTHER CAR SINCE THAT'S A GODDAMNED CORVETTE!!!
I'm starting to hate the internet 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep, good point, Dave. Nope, that certainly doesn't look ANYTHING like a 1966 Buick Electra 225 there, now does it! (...think "Jayne Mansfield" here, folks...just in case you didn't get this one...though reportedly she really wasn't decapitated as myth says she was)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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My grand parents had 69 and a 70 Electras, loved those cars. The 69 was white with red interior.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Yep, good point, Dave.
Nope, that certainly doesn't look ANYTHING like a 1966 Buick Electra 225 there, now does it!
(...think "Jayne Mansfield" here, folks...just in case you didn't get this one...though reportedly she really wasn't decapitated as myth says she was)
But, She WAS texting!
And we STILL haven't learned. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Loquacious
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Last edited by Speedmaster05; 12/02/2012 8:52 PM.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
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Yep, good point, Dave.
Nope, that certainly doesn't look ANYTHING like a 1966 Buick Electra 225 there, now does it!
(...think "Jayne Mansfield" here, folks...just in case you didn't get this one...though reportedly she really wasn't decapitated as myth says she was)
But, She WAS texting!
And we STILL haven't learned.
Yeah erle, uh huh, that's right. She was "texting" alright.
On a freakin' TYPEWRITER, maybe!!! 
It was 1967, REMEMBER???!!!
(...yeah, I know you were just joshin' here)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,419 |
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In almost all cases "multi-tasking" degraded performance at each task. That may also be a non-moral case for monogamy
IMO you would have to be "bat-$hit insane" to want to live with more than one woman at the same time (moral or not). 
Last edited by foglefar; 12/03/2012 2:05 AM.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: turns left in front of and kills motorcyclist acqu
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
In almost all cases "multi-tasking" degraded performance at each task. That may also be a non-moral case for monogamy
IMO you would have to be "bat-$hit insane" to want to live with more than one woman at the same time (moral or not).
Agreed, because you would have to multi-task ignoring them, they wouldn't 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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