 Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Here's my question in a nutshell:
My 2002 BA was purchased with airbox replaced with filters.
I have major popping mostly on deceleration and some backfire (which I can't pin point when exactly this happens)
My top speed is about 75 mph, when I hit that mark she just wants to stop accelerating. I can hold it wide open and nothing.
Triumph shop I go to in Hyde Park, NY( he works on Triumphs exclusively and also sells them) tells me it's the air filters and recommends putting the factory airbox back on.
I have no problem doing this since I kind of want an "original" look anyway, but did any of you folks deal with this situation after an airbox mod.?
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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I'm sorry to say this, however your service tech told you that then he is an idiot. Your bike simply isn't tuned properly for the pods. I suggest that you take it elsewhere.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
I'm sorry to say this, however your service tech told you that then he is an idiot. Your bike simply isn't tuned properly for the pods. I suggest that you take it elsewhere.
So, we're talking about rejetting the carbs?
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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Yes, & possibly changing or shimming the needles, & checking/adjusting the float heights, at a minimum.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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Pat, Your bike is set up way too lean. When the pod filters were installed, the jetting should have been changed. If you cannot go over 75MPH you are damaging your engine. Switching back to the original air box will solve the problem since the dealer will have a starting point to work from. They will charge you to install the box and install/verify the stock jetting. If I were you, I would leave the pod filters in place. If you have high flow exhaust pipes (anything other than stock), you should be able to install the proper jets yourself. Look in the tech vault for jetting options. I would try 145 to 155 main jets and at least install 1 or 2 shims under your stock needles. Open up the idle mixture screws to a rich setting (3 turns). You could also install 45 pilot jets but I would try that after the other changes. Jets are cheap. Fast Eddy sells main and pilot jets. If you check his site, he sells them separately also. One quick test I have used is to accelerate in 3rd or 4th and while accelerating through around 6000 rpm (anything over 5000 rpm to make sure you are using the main jets) back off on the throttle a bit. If the bike seems to want to accelerate, the mains are too small and should be increased. The opposite is also true. Better yet, if you can get to a dyno and have someone set up the bike, you will be amazed with the performance increase. One last point and maybe I should have posted this first, was the bike always like this or did it just start to show these symptoms? If it is a recent problem, check the intake rubbers and vacuum caps for cracks. You could be sucking air in leaning out the fuel air mixture. 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Oil Expert
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you might want to list any other mods, what pipes are you using, are the filters actually pods and if so which ones? What exhaust are you using? Baffles removed? changing the jets is not to tuff and even tuning for a decent ride not to tough either but dyno would be the way to go for a true sense of where you are at. So long as the correct jets (pilots and mains) are being used you remove the risk of running way to lien etc.
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I agree , I would find a shop that actually knows how to work on bikes not just bolt oem stuff back where it was in the first place. There is a difference between knowing about the way bikes work and being able to simply bolt things on. I would go with 145 to 155 mains and 42 to 48 pilots (both depending on exactly where you live and what you have on there for exhaust) The gains in performance are worth the effort rather than putting the air box back on.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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To answer a couple questions you guys threw out there: I'm fairly certain it has been performing like this from day one when I brought it home. Can you tell from this picture if the pipes are stock? I believe they are. Also, are these K&N filters? again, I believe they are.  I know you guys are saying no big deal adjusting these carbs, but that is way over my head at the moment. I'm going to look for a mechanic/tech that can go through this and straighten me out. What kind of damage am I doing running this way? (I'm starting to get bummed out here.....)
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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thats a nice lookin bike, and those appear to be Short TORS you have on there, not factory. Nice sounding little pipe, they are marginally more open then the OEM pipes, factory Pilot (should be 42's) with the pods and TORS should be ok but you will likley require to step up to at least 148 mains+ to bad you don't know whats in there, but i suspect with the issue you are having if its jet related you have 120's or so in there now. I don't see any major bluing on your pipes likley becasue you are not running 75mph very often. I would have them step up on the mains, or at the very least find out what you have in there.
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Thanks for all the comments so far guys, they are a huge help.
A friend just recommended a performance shop not too far from me that has a Dynojet 250i Dynamometer service. I just got off the phone with one of the mechanics. He says he can order a jet kit if needed after they check it out.
So we have to find out what jets are in there now.... 120s seems to be the best guess.
Should I tell him I might need 145 to 155 mains, 45 pilot jets? Would he already have that information (being the ace mechanic I think/hope he is)? Or is it up to the owner of the bike to tell these guys what they want?
This is the first time I've brought a bike in for this type work so I'm not sure what to expect.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Oil Expert
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jets are very cheap, go to fasteddy http://www.fasteddysports.com/?page_id=3&category=57 and order yourself a set of 45 pilots for sure, just in case (about 7 bucks) and get a few sets of mains, like 138 140 145 and 150's again 7 bucks a pair, you might also want to get some shims about 2 bucks or so for 4 i think, you are just above sea level or at it are you not? If the dyno guy is any good he willknow what to do but it will same you a couple buckes if you can get him close on the first run, use this calculator to help you http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/dinqua/friar/i think you are going to end up with 42's and 150's or 45's and 145 or 150
2007 Speedmaster and miss it!
2013 T-Bird Storm and Luvin it!
Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at 70 mph can double your vocabulary
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Those are K&N pods.
If you shine a flashlight inside the pipes, are they open core or solid baffled? What are the part #'s (should be engraved on the bottom or inner rear section of each pipe)?
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
What kind of damage am I doing running this way? (I'm starting to get bummed out here.....)
Running the engine so lean causes it to overheat causing an exhaust valve or seat to burn/fail or worse, blow a hole in a piston. These bikes should get to 100 mph without breaking a sweat. That dyno shop should set you up well. Let us know how things end up.... 
12 Rocket Roadster
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
Those are K&N pods.
If you shine a flashlight inside the pipes, are they open core or solid baffled? What are the part #'s (should be engraved on the bottom or inner rear section of each pipe)?
I'm pretty sure these are what I have on there.... Triumph short cut silencers, part # A9600060,...here's a pair for sale on fleabay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Speedmas...tr#ht_500wt_949
So,how does that effect the calculator? Should I figure "stock pipes"?
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Use the TORs check box. Then order some 42 pilots and 150 mains. After tht you'd better hold on tight :-)
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
Use the TORs check box. Then order some 42 pilots and 150 mains. After tht you'd better hold on tight :-)
Yeah Buddy..... 
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Just dropped the bike off... proprietor of the shop, Buzzy,cool older dude, kinda like me  tells me (after I inquired) that most of my decel popping is coming from the short pipes and I might now hear much change even after the re-jet. He really dug the bike and will be checking everything tomorrow morning...
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Adjunct
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i'm running with no pipes at all, just headers and i don't have any popping. i bet it's great come tomorrow.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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You're gonna be really pleased with the bikes's performance after he gets this straitened out.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Just brought it home.... in record time, I might add.  They put 150 main jets in which replaced 130's (or so he tells me) The pilot jets were already 42 so he didn't touch those. Charged me $5.50 for the jets and two hours labor...$146 with tax. Riding home on the freeway was a MUCH differnt experience then riding it over to the shop. performance is 100% better. I feel like the trottle is now actually connected to the rest of the bike, no annoying lag at around 50mph and I saw 90 for the first time I've owned this bike. Not sure what it has to offer but I'll be finding out soon enough when I go out later. Mechanic says the popping all but disappeared when he shrouded the air pods about 25%. (I should add they didn't put it on the dyno, he wanted me to take it and ride for a while to see if I was happy with the performance.)Right now the pods are as installed and the popping if still fairly prevelent. Anyone know about "shouding" the pods? Sounds simple enough. Anyway, loving what's been done so far, not sure what my next move is (besides riding the snot out of it, that is!)
Last edited by repoman; 07/21/2012 11:41 AM.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Learned Hand
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Glad to hear she's runnign good for ya. However it shouldn't be popping at all, never heard of "shrouding the pods", most likely need to turn the mix screw out a tad. Or you still got a small air leak somewhere.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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I agree with Matt. Sometimes you have to remove the mufflers and install them to the headers with high temp silicone sealant. You might want to make sure the headers are tight to the head (don't break the studs though). Opening the idle mixture (pilot screws) a bit also helps with popping. The best thing I did was to disconnect my throttle position sensor. Make sure you unplug it only and not remove it from the bike. Many of us have done this for years with no problems but the popping all but disappears.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Yep Greg, good reccomendation. I forgot about the TPS. See disconnected mine and forgot all about it.  Header/exhaust/muffler is a good place to look,shoot some WD-40 around it as Ian has mentioned, if there's a leak white smoke will come out tail pipe. I'd check squirrel condoms too.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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So the pods themselves shouldn't be the source of the air "leak" (which sounds kind of funny since they do nothing but leak air)
The "shroud" that the tech used was duct tape, BTW.
Condoms are solid and tight. Headers are as slug as I care to torque them...Any links on here about unplugging the TPS?... guessing it's under the tank...
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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 Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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RE: Shrouding the Pods.
They make cloth covers for pod filters that keep you from
getting drowned out in heavy rain. They don't restrict air flow,
but keep water from entering the filters. Maybe that's what they meant.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
RE: Shrouding the Pods.
They make cloth covers for pod filters that keep you from
getting drowned out in heavy rain. They don't restrict air flow,
but keep water from entering the filters. Maybe that's what they meant.
He was talking like the cover WAS to restrict airflow, thus eliminating the "leak", but like I posted earlier, he was using duct tape to cover the pod and that is certaintly not the way to go. You got to remember this is a "V Twin" performance shop, so I'm guessing the parallels are confusing to the poor boy. ... he did, however, do a good job with the carbs and jets, got me running much, much better.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
I found a good link (for those following this silly thread of mine...)
http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...part=1&vc=1
so reading through this thread on page 8,567 (page 9 actually)there is a picture of the TPS. What I'm looking to do is remove the plug from the sensor but leave the two star screws that connects it the carb in place... correct?
can I remove the sensor to get at the plug and then reconnect the sensor once I unplug it? ... that seems like the "easier" way to get at it...
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Learned Hand
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I just unplugged mine at the other plug, its about 6 inches back from that in the picture, kind of a triangular shaped connector. However if you want LC Fabrications makes a blank off plate if you choose to take out the sensor.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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If you remove the sensor from the carb make sure you disconnect it at the plug also before you run the engine. Unbolting the sensor without unplugging it will cause the engine to run poorly. Oh yes, if you unbolt and remove the sensor, and want to reinstall it expecting it to run again, it has to be calibrated to run properly. This link states how. Throttle Position Sensor Adjustment
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
I just unplugged mine at the other plug, its about 6 inches back from that in the picture, kind of a triangular shaped connector. However if you want LC Fabrications makes a blank off plate if you choose to take out the sensor.
Ok, so I just unplugged this sucker. Here's how I did it:
While holding a flashlight down onto the plug with her left hand I had my wife, using her right hand and a pair of needle nose pliers,come up from under the carb. and grab the bottom part of the plug making sure the release tab portion of the plug was facing upward toward the light so we could really see what was going on.
From the top I reached down with my left hand and grabbed the other section of the plug and with my right hand using a flat nose screwdriver pushed the release tab in and gentle wiggled the plug apart.... piece of cake!
Of course this "set up" took us about a half hour of finagling to figure out....
Took it out for a quick spin ...no popping WHAT SO EVER.
I had a couple beers in me so took it back in,tomorrow we'll give it a true running.
Anyway, just thought I'd share.
Oh, as far as the eliminator kit, I think I'm going to get one, don't see why not at this point (assuming all goes well over the next few days of riding)
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
If you remove the sensor from the carb make sure you disconnect it at the plug also before you run the engine. Unbolting the sensor without unplugging it will cause the engine to run poorly.
This link states how. Throttle Position Sensor Adjustment
Oh yes, if you unbolt and remove the sensor, and want to reinstall it expecting it to run again, it has to be calibrated to run properly.
Duly noted kind sir....
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Ok, so I just unplugged this sucker. Here's how I did it: While holding a flashlight down onto the plug with her left hand I had my wife, using her right hand and a pair of needle nose pliers,come up from under the carb. and grab the bottom part of the plug making sure the release tab portion of the plug was facing upward toward the light so we could really see what was going on. May I borrow your wife? Mine has an aversion to working on motorcycles. 
08 America, A/I &, Calif emissions "stuff" gone, air box removed & battery relocated, billet intakes, UNI Pods, 145 mains, 42 pilots, Stage 2 igniter, intminators, 813 cams, Progressive 412's, modified seat.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
Ok, so I just unplugged this sucker. Here's how I did it:
While holding a flashlight down onto the plug with her left hand I had my wife, using her right hand and a pair of needle nose pliers,come up from under the carb. and grab the bottom part of the plug making sure the release tab portion of the plug was facing upward toward the light so we could really see what was going on.
May I borrow your wife? Mine has an aversion to working on motorcycles.
hahaha.....she was all high fives and knuckle bumps, after messing with it for a half hour, to finally get it apart.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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3/4 Throttle
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
These guys make a block off plate for the tps
http://www.shop.lcfabrications.com/product.sc?productId=19&categoryId=4
yeah, that's the one I saw on another thread....so, once you unplug it, just remove the two star screws and block it off with "The Eliminator".
Now the other end of the plug, the wired end, I will block up with dielectric grease and tuck away underneath.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I had great results disconnecting my tps sensor while running the stock cdi, however the Procom unit seems to like it better hooked up, and I still get no popping on decel. I would recommend just keeping the wire unhooked instead of blocking the plate, if only for future troubles that may arise from other components.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Quote:
I had great results disconnecting my tps sensor while running the stock cdi, however the Procom unit seems to like it better hooked up, and I still get no popping on decel. I would recommend just keeping the wire unhooked instead of blocking the plate, if only for future troubles that may arise from other components.
Good call... that's two reasons not to remove it entirely.
I have to say though I'm not thrilled with having unplugged, hanging stuff under there, but I'll do my best to zip tie/tuck everything in...
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Re: Airbox replaced with air filters...why?
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I just ran my disconnected wire over the top of the pod filter on the right side carb and it was never a problem with flopping around or anything.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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