 Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Hi guys, You may remember a post of mine titled Bike Dies, then starts after a few minutes . Actually, some may remember that title just a little bit too well   Well, with this other post " Failure of my second R/R in Two Years " the three main recommendations were: 1. Either replace or better still disconnect the sidestand switch thereby taking that one out of the loop. Then there was Monsterman's suggestion of: 2. Quote:
change the damn Gill coils to some Nology ones
and finally,
3. The most popular besides disconnecting the sidestand switch was to replace the dodgy connector plug to the regulator / rectifier (R/R).
Well, Eddy's just sent the new Nology Coils which are now on there way and once I get them, I'll replace the old coils with the Nology's as well as disconnect the side stand switch.
That only leaves me with doing what Zdenko suggested i.e. replace the old connector plugs with these one's:
Anyway that's the idea provided I can get the connector above. My question now though is fairly simple, given I was sent a R/R (when broken down in a country town) with a different wiring configuration, (i.e. I now have the one on the right)
Would I be wrong in simply attaching the yellow wires to the new purchased connector and then just attaching the Red Wires to the Positive side of the battery and the Green to the Negative side?
I hope my explanation has been easy enough to understand and again, thanks guys for helping me get through these sparky probs.
cheers
stacka 
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Would I be wrong in simply attaching the yellow wires to the new purchased connector and then just attaching the Red Wires to the Positive side of the battery and the Green to the Negative side?
You are correct. Ive been following your posts as well as the one that TomSpdMstr ( Go Figure ). In that thread he provided a link to a great website that has some good videos and a good insight into how the RR and stator on a typical bike works.
Red to positive, Black (green for you) to negative and the other three to the stator feed or output of the RR.
Stacka...keep your eyes on the wire size. That can make a difference. Ideally you should be using, at minimum, the same as the OEM wires.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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I endorse.what Z said. You really want heavier duty wires than stock and an Eastern Beaver fuse ((high quality connection) on the positive if you're wiring it direct to the battery.
Reading up on Decosses threads here and on the Rat forum is recommended regarding the quality of connectors and fuses.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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I think I'd be attaching the green/black wire to the engine instead of the negative battery post. That gives the absolute best ground/earth for the bike since the engine is generating the electricity.
About the wire size: you're best bet is to match as closely as possible keeping in mind that you must not go smaller. Just like hoses, wire is only as capable as the smallest gauge in a run so if you splice in a smaller gauge it effectively renders the entire run that gauge. The other side of this is using heavier splice wire that the gauge of a run gains nothing...that only works if the increased wire size goes from point to point.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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I wouldn't recommend splicing into the existing loom. New wires, thicker than stock, positive directly to the battery. The main battery earth is on the engine near the R/R so heavy gauge from the R/R to the engine and then on to the battery. New inline fuse on the positive direct to the battery.
Cheers, Richard
~~~~~~~~~~~~
09 America, Staintune Pipes, K&N, Breathe, Hagon Nitros, AI & O2 removed, tune 20184 (modified), MTX-L a/f gauge
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Running the positive and negative directly to the battery will bypass any issues in the main wiring loom. Since this is RR #3 maybe that's the way to go for your issue. Be sure to fuse it! Easy RR install
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Worn Saddle
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Here's my logic in this: you're on another r&r repair. These units shunt excess voltage to ground, that's how it "regulates" the charge. If you have an issue with battery to engine ground there's a possibility of cooking the battery and/or burning up the regulator. My personal choice would be regulator to engine, battery negative to engine, same clean bolt. Match the regulator wire gauge, fuse the positive and go point to point as suggested, just use the engine as the ground point.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Here's my logic in this: you're on another r&r repair. These units shunt excess voltage to ground, that's how it "regulates" the charge. If you have an issue with battery to engine ground there's a possibility of cooking the battery and/or burning up the regulator. My personal choice would be regulator to engine, battery negative to engine, same clean bolt. Match the regulator wire gauge, fuse the positive and go point to point as suggested, just use the engine as the ground point.
I see what your saying. I agree with your logic on this on Ed. 
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Hi guys, thankyou for your suggestions which have thankfully been agreed apon by all. I have been thinking about this and whilst some may think I'm wasting money, I REALLY WANT TO DO THIS ELECTRICAL WORK THOROUGLY WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF FUTURE PROBLEMS. Now that I know just a LITTLE bit more than I did when my first R/R went kaput, I don't think I will feel secure my bike won't break down again unless I can guarantee to myself only the best parts were used. I'll get to the point. I have noticed there are better R/R's out there which already have quality connectors on them. That's how it looked in the pics I saw anyway. So what I'm asking for now is, can anyone suggest the best R/R, the best connectors and also what gauge wiring (preferably with links to where I can buy them) I should use. I know I am asking a lot from you guys here but I need to be honest here, because of the medication I'm now on to keep me on the straight and narrow with my back, I can get tired and sometimes confused. It's not something I like to admit but hey, we have known each other for a while now and I know if anyone understands, it's you guys. It's a credit to the original creators of this site, because they created a culture on here where everyone tries to help each other. It's really special and hard to find elsewhere, but that's my experience over the last six years anyway. Moving one, I look at the R/R that I'm using now and to be honest I think even if I do all the suggestions already given, that R/R I currently have will still be the weakest link. I just don't want to do all the wiring work but think at the same time the R/R I have now isn't as good as it could be.  The other thing you guys need to know is, my SM is now my project bike as well as my town ride. Everything I do to it from now on I want to do right and for it to look right too. That means every part I use from now on needs to be the best quality available. Thanks for your understanding on this one and particularly if you could provide links to where I can buy the parts suggested, this would simply make it so much easier for me to undertake this project.  stacka 
Last edited by Stacka; 05/08/2012 7:35 PM.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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You could always consider putting in a MOSFET system. Instead of just shunting the excess voltage to ground these R&R boxes use an electronic circuit to actively control the juice...it's a nice upgrade. http://roadstercycle.com/
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Appreciate your honesty and positive remarks concerning this community. I agree... it's the best and then some! If I come up with any ideas or suggestions I'll be sure to let you know but I think the gurus we have around here are your best bet for advice. For now about all I can offer is moral support! Hang in there Stacka and here's hoping that back of yours settles down a bit! 
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Check Pants
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Quote:
You could always consider putting in a MOSFET system. Instead of just shunting the excess voltage to ground these R&R boxes use an electronic circuit to actively control the juice...it's a nice upgrade.
http://roadstercycle.com/
I have to +1 here.
His site is flu of good info and he stands behind his product. Only negative right now is that he's out of stock... but at least he has it on his website that he's out of stock.
If you can wait then Id say wait.
Heck... I don't need one and I still put myself on the list just so I can have it if needed... and I really don't like those crappy OEM connectors.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Go with the Roadstercycle kit and be happy. All the charging issues will be solved, and everything you need is in the kit. If you have issues in the future you'll know what its not. The next weakest electrical link is the fuse block.
Do, or do not...There is no try.'- Master Yoda
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Go with the Roadstercycle kit and be happy. All the charging issues will be solved, and everything you need is in the kit.
If you have issues in the future you'll know what its not. The next weakest electrical link is the fuse block.
Let's not leave the stator out, a scarce few have been known to fail, rare but not unknown. The MOSFET system does do the one thing I'm always suspicious about, it takes that ground path pretty much out of consideration. Never can forget the large percentage of old Triumph failures were caused by the Zener vibrating loose on the bike and losing the ground path, thereby overheating and letting the smoke out.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Some good info in this thread. I have one suggestion; don't wire the positive wire DIRECTLY to the positive battery cable nor the negative wire from the stator directly to the negative side of the battery. IF the battery connections corrode a bit, the contacts will suffer. They do tend to corrode. Coat the terminals on the battery with dielectric grease and leave them alone. Connect the positive wire to the lug on your starter relay where the positive battery cable connects. This way you can leave it alone when changing the battery and it is essentially connected to the battery. Similarly, connect the negative r/r lead to the place on the motor or frame where the negative battery cable attaches. As far as connectors, you can solder/shrink wrap everything and then you won't have to worry about connectors failing or corroding. If you need to remove the r/r for some reason, just heat the solder and pull it off. Critical connections on a bike are best soldered in my opinion; this opinion has been built in the vintage bike world where wiring harnesses are a prime reason for sitting by the side of the road.
wiredgeorge
TX Hill Country
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Quote:
...Never can forget the large percentage of old Triumph failures were caused by the Zener vibrating loose on the bike and losing the ground path, thereby overheating and letting the smoke out.
External Diode not an issue for modern Triumphs.
Get rid of the excessive lengths of wire that you can, as well as insert the 10ga. wires (and fuse) supplied. At that point you've significantly reduced the voltage drop across the system. Adding the modern regulator with sealed connectors greatly reduces your chance of water intrusion giving you headaches later as well.
Ground it at the Battery or Block- what ever makes you happy. It's really irrelevant as long as the ground connection is resistance free.
Last edited by TomSpdMstr; 05/09/2012 8:56 AM.
Do, or do not...There is no try.'- Master Yoda
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Quote:
...Never can forget the large percentage of old Triumph failures were caused by the Zener vibrating loose on the bike and losing the ground path, thereby overheating and letting the smoke out.
External Diode not an issue for modern Triumphs.
Get rid of the excessive lengths of wire that you can, as well as insert the 10ga. wires (and fuse) supplied. At that point you've significantly reduced the voltage drop across the system. Adding the modern regulator with sealed connectors greatly reduces your chance of water intrusion giving you headaches later as well.
Ground it at the Battery or Block- what ever makes you happy. It's really irrelevant as long as the ground connection is resistance free.
The secure ground was the point, not the Zener. And, the battery, since it isn't generating the electricity, isn't going to do you any good unless the path to the engine case is sound. It's always useful to remember that the enigine makes the electricity and that's where the real ground is, not the frame or battery.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Ok, not to split hairs, but could you qualify what you mean by 'real ground'?
When the Battery (-) post is connected to the engine block with wire of the proper gage for the applied load, of adequate length, and minimal electrical resistance, how is proper grounding at the Block any more, or less, adequate then grounding at the battery post?
Do, or do not...There is no try.'- Master Yoda
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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If you contact this guy he will sell you everything you need in a "kit" from http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-f...tml#post1214215The only thing extra I had to do was make an mounting plate adapter so I could mount the regulator to stock mounting point
Last edited by SDKimo; 05/09/2012 10:29 AM.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Ok, not to split hairs, but could you qualify what you mean by 'real ground'?
When the Battery (-) post is connected to the engine block with wire of the proper gage for the applied load, of adequate length, and minimal electrical resistance, how is proper grounding at the Block any more, or less, adequate then grounding at the battery post?
Battery corrosion takes place at the terminal. The battery terminal gives you two points to worry about, the terminal and the other end of the ground strap. Going directly to the engine ground removes this.
And, really, I'm not trying to split hairs or stir up an argument, I'm trying to help a fellow rider who has already lost two R&R units for no apparent reason. Going to the block eliminates the battery as a source of failure and he's looking for confidence. I think the direct path offers confidence.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I've been following this topic(s) for awhile now as well. I really want to see Stacka back on this machine with his new Tiger as a back up haha. I also am very curious as to what the main cause of this issue is. Before I had a thought of a possible failure in the ICU in this thread , just wondering if any of you think this may be a culprit?
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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No argueing. Grounding/Bonding is an important electrical concept that should be understood. Expecially if troubleshooting issues.
Using the logic of the grounding to the Block as 'confidance' inspiring is miss leading.
If this were true, and there should there be corrision/high resistance at the (-) battery post, your logic implys all will still work well. When in fact things will not. Resistance at either connection will degrade electrical system preformance.
The Engine/Chassis and Battery must be electrically connected (Grounded/Bonded) to one another for proper electrical system function.
Do, or do not...There is no try.'- Master Yoda
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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We're stuck disagreeing on a simple point so I'm out.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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It's all good buddy! I'm slow today and enjoy the back and forth! Cheers!
Do, or do not...There is no try.'- Master Yoda
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Your link seems be off.
In my case cleaning up the charging side of things helped push the high resistance across the fuse block to failure.
Once I found and fixed up the fuse block issue it started running like a completely different bike. I'm confident the fluxuating voltage drop across the fuse block was raising hell with the CDI and coils, i.e. weak spark, intermittent miss.
Now the bike runs smoother than it ever did.
Do, or do not...There is no try.'- Master Yoda
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Hi all, apologies for the late reply. All I can say is wow. What a top bunch of blokes (and girls if there is any). I'm rushing this reply just because I've got to go for a walk before it gets dark. I'm putting on too much weight  I've had a quick look over the responses without opening the links yet and it looks like I'm going to be able to upgrade my electrics very nicely. Thanks again. I'll provide a proper response tomorrow.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Hi again to all who have taken an interest in the probs I've had electrically with my SM. Firstly, I appreciate everyone's input. It doesn't matter whether it goes against the predominate consensus or not. Everyone's got different experiences and there are so many variables in this game, it's really hard to know what the most appropriate answer is to fix my the probs I'm having. So, because I just don't have the time to analyse everything to the nth degree to manage the info and then determine what I think will work best for me, I'm edging towards the MOSFET kit to help me out here. I've emailed the bloke (thanks so much for the link and info on this one) and basically explained my situation and asked how long before they are in stock. So now I'll be waiting etc, but it's not a big deal cos I am busy with lots of other stuff and getting ready for my trip over to stay with my adopted 'brother' Eddy (fes). By the way, I received the pro fire coils I bought from him which will help me eliminate anothe possible cause to my electrical woes. So for now my SM is a work in progress but one that with the assistance big time on all your help, I'm sure I'll get the confidence I had in the past and all will be good again. So yeah, I've got a lot of great things happening in my life ATM and spending some time working on my SM is one of them. I'll let you all know how things go when the next installment of 'Stacka's Electrical Woes' recommences once i have all the parts etc. By the way, I had a look at an Explorer in the flesh today. In one word "Wow". It's everything I hoped for and more. Not wanting to take anything away from my SM cos I understand both offer something the other doesn't. Spending another $6-7K on accessories has been a bit naughty though Thanks again Stacka
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Well guys, the latest regarding my trying to buy the Mosfet Kits is, Jack from Roadstercycle is now having a hard time accessing them. This is because "Shindengen", who manufacture them don't sell to anyone other than for OEM and not aftermarket mobs like himself. He's put me on a list should he get some more but he isn't waiting round and in fact said, he is in the process of building his own Mosfet Kits. I'mm not sure how that works but whatever, if it's an option to sort this sh*tfight out, then I'm all for it. I guess I'm lucky I'm now not in such a big hurry to sort this problem out. I also liked George's (Wiredgeorge) suggestion i.e. Quote:
Connect the positive wire to the lug on your starter relay where the positive battery cable connects. This way you can leave it alone when changing the battery and it is essentially connected to the battery. Similarly, connect the negative r/r lead to the place on the motor or frame where the negative battery cable attaches. As far as connectors, you can solder/shrink wrap everything and then you won't have to worry about connectors failing or corroding.
This is an excellent plan B, or if all else fails, my primary option if the Mosfet option falls through.
Finally, I'm not sure whether Matt's (Leithal) suggesting was given the significance it deserved i.e. Quote:
Any chance there may be a fault in the ICU (ignition control unit) just a guess but thats a common component with the tacho, sidestand, r/r, tps, coils........
Does anyone know where they can be sourced other than from Triumph and also, any idea how much they are.
I know this thread is dragging on but I seem to be hitting a few road blocks
stacka 
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Learned Hand
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Found a used ignitor ofr you here but you may still want to try the other suggestions first.
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Re: Electrical Problems Being Sorted.
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Thanks Matt. They aren't cheap are they? Mind you, the part had only done 11,000 miles off an 2006 model so it hasn't done much work. That's of course if it makes any difference anyway and whether my ignitor is the real problem. Also, I think there is a much cheaper new after market supplier but I can't remember where or who atm.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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