 04 America Carb Problems
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Recently I had drained some old (about a year) gas from my 04 America and got it started up. After running a few gallons of high octane with seafoam thru it, I got it to start up and it puffed out some black smoke for a bit.
At first the left side wasn't even firing, the pipe was cold as ice, but at least now both sides are working at idle.
It seems like I still have a carb issue. Any suggestions as it's still hard to start and I can't rev it up past a few thousand rpm without dying out.
Is there a good guide here on the forums to get the carbs in working order? Could it be the fuel filter? Anyone is San Diego want to make a new best friend?
Thanks,
Aaron
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Check Pants
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The typical list of things to check will be as follows: - if the OEM air box is still in place check for cracks around the part that feeds the carbs. The rubber there has a tendency to deteriorate. - Squirrel condoms (vaccum caps). There are four possible locations and all are at the carb intakes. Two on carbs and two on intake manifolds, one on each side. You may have a vacuums hose on one or two. Mine use Magnums   - HIdden fuel filter - its between the carbs at the "T" on the bottom fuel inlet.  - If the caps have been opened up for some reason (usually to swap needles or add/remove shims) the rubber gasket could be pinched of damaged. Check under the silver caps at the top of the carbs. - Next step is no fun but float levels (check the tech vault for correct level and how to measure). - If the carbs have been rejetted theres a possibility an O ring is pinched or missing from the air screws. -
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Loquacious
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Did it run OK a year ago when you parked it?
What do the plugs look like?
What do you mean by "after running a few gallons thru it"; the tank alone, draing through the bowls, or running the motor?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Did it run OK a year ago when you parked it?
What do the plugs look like?
What do you mean by "after running a few gallons thru it"; the tank alone, draing through the bowls, or running the motor?
The reason I parked it is it was starting to loser power (fluctuate) once you were in gear and moving over 10/15mph. At idle it was fine and I had no issues with it. My brother was suppose to come down and help me work on it, he told me it was probably fuel/carb related, but things happened and here I am a year later..
It does not idle well, it is difficult to start. And initially the left side wasn't firing.
I ran it with new fuel in the tank and seafoam for about 2 gallons trying to clean out any gunked up old gas. (I know i'm an idiot for not draining it before.)
The plugs look great. I had checked them when it wasn't firing on the left side.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Zimlin, wow nice pics and very detailed. I just check the vacum caps. Clockwise from the top left of the first pic, I have three air hoses then a cap on the bot left. All seem in good shape. I have to remove the carbs to get to the fuel filter right? I only have sight access on the left right and partial front of the airbox. It seems okay, but not sure. Should I attempt to take out the carbs? I've never done that. I can fix your computer though. ha. I do not think it has been rejetted. I bought the bike with 2000 miles on it and I have not done it. The top caps (bowls?) on the carbs still have the philips screws on them. If that is any indication. I do have a couple hose questions. The first pic is a hose that is just behind the crankcase on the left side of bike, in front of battery holder. Is that hose suppose to just hang loose and not attach to anything?  The second is a hose hanging from the bottom (below the air box) It is also next to a (filter?) or something. turn your head to the left to level the picture out.  Wow those are big on the preview. Can I limit the size of the pics? Here they are on another site http://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/y40xt4944hNe9zL0ukl9cYW.jpghttp://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/QeFk8pLByMlHHVQncFuF8PBJM.jpg
Last edited by dmguild; 03/21/2012 8:11 PM.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Loquacious
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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I didn't at first, but I think so now. When I first started it up the left side was dead. But after running it for awhile it started firing.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Loquacious
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What I mean by the question is if you pull each plug, attach it to the plug wire, ground the plug, & crank the motor, does each plug deliver spark across the gap of the center elactrode to the ground strap?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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not sure. i will check. ground on the plug where? the threaded area?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Yes, threaded portion against the cylinder head/fin is OK.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Just checked. Both plugs have spark.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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- if the OEM air box is still in place check for cracks around the part that feeds the carbs. The rubber there has a tendency to deteriorate.
Zmilin, There appears to be some deteoration on the rubber attached to the air box. Both sides that feed into the carbs. THere is definitely some cracking there. Is this something I can replace? The rubber, or the whole air box, or can it be sealed up?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Just checked. Both plugs have spark.
OK, then it is most likely a carb issue. Let's start with the simple stuff first.
Are the carbs properly seated in the boots?
Have you drained & removed the bowls to have a look? Any dirt or grit inside the bowls? Do the main jets look gunked?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Adjunct
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Buy the freak kit, get rid of the airbox and keep stock look. I feel like posting this isn't helping you, sorry but an idea if you do indeed need a new airbox.
2008 Speedy, AI removed, DIY airbox destruction with K&N filters, spectres, re-jetted and "custom" rattle can paint job.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Quote:
Just checked. Both plugs have spark.
OK, then it is most likely a carb issue. Let's start with the simple stuff first.
Are the carbs properly seated in the boots?
Have you drained & removed the bowls to have a look? Any dirt or grit inside the bowls? Do the main jets look gunked?
I have not done any of this. And honestly don't know how. Is there a step by step process? I was looking for dinqua's carb stuff on the Tech Vault, but I can't find it.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Buy the freak kit, get rid of the airbox and keep stock look. I feel like posting this isn't helping you, sorry but an idea if you do indeed need a new airbox.
Thanks I'll keep this in mind if I do have to replace the airbox. How much is the airbox to replace vs the freak kit?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just checked. Both plugs have spark.
OK, then it is most likely a carb issue. Let's start with the simple stuff first.
Are the carbs properly seated in the boots?
Have you drained & removed the bowls to have a look? Any dirt or grit inside the bowls? Do the main jets look gunked?
I have not done any of this. And honestly don't know how. Is there a step by step process? I was looking for dinqua's carb stuff on the Tech Vault, but I can't find it.
I'm not saying that I'm not willing. The only way to learn is to try. I'm assuming I have to remove the carbs from the bike (I read that somewhere) otherwise I can't get the screws off the bowl caps.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Hi,
Dinquas page has been taken down but John is working to get in here.
To answer your question for draining, you will notice on the side of your carb, (one side is easy the other is in the middle of them) You will see what looks like a nipple on bottom of carb, this is the drain port. put a clear tube , fish tank air line, on this and into a mason jar or glass, there will be a round opening on the side with a screw in it. loosen it and the fuel will drain.you will be able to see the sludge in the fuel if there is any.
not a perminate fix, but you can wrap the rubber inlets with black electrical tape really good and see if that helps. or mabe some black rtv painted on. but thoes are not perminate fixes. I have heard getting the Rubber hooteses out can be a PITA!
Hope this helps.
Mal: "Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun?{ref, Jayne} Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really, it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting."
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Hi,
Dinquas page has been taken down but John is working to get in here.
To answer your question for draining, you will notice on the side of your carb, (one side is easy the other is in the middle of them) You will see what looks like a nipple on bottom of carb, this is the drain port. put a clear tube , fish tank air line, on this and into a mason jar or glass, there will be a round opening on the side with a screw in it. loosen it and the fuel will drain.you will be able to see the sludge in the fuel if there is any.
not a perminate fix, but you can wrap the rubber inlets with black electrical tape really good and see if that helps. or mabe some black rtv painted on. but thoes are not perminate fixes. I have heard getting the Rubber hooteses out can be a PITA!
Hope this helps.
Thanks. I will try this in the morning when there's a bit more light.
Too bad I still don't live in my hometown (Savona NY) that is right around the corner from Dinqua in Honeoye NY.
This is where you mean right?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Loquacious
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That is the drain. At this point in your wrenching career you probably need to get some hands-on help, or have a pro do it.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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That is the drain. At this point in your wrenching career you probably need to get some hands-on help, or have a pro do it.
The only shop around is outrageous and I don't trust them.
I wish I knew someone local with the knowledge, I'd rather learn how to diy.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi,
Dinquas page has been taken down but John is working to get in here.
To answer your question for draining, you will notice on the side of your carb, (one side is easy the other is in the middle of them) You will see what looks like a nipple on bottom of carb, this is the drain port. put a clear tube , fish tank air line, on this and into a mason jar or glass, there will be a round opening on the side with a screw in it. loosen it and the fuel will drain.you will be able to see the sludge in the fuel if there is any.
not a perminate fix, but you can wrap the rubber inlets with black electrical tape really good and see if that helps. or mabe some black rtv painted on. but thoes are not perminate fixes. I have heard getting the Rubber hooteses out can be a PITA!
Hope this helps.
Thanks. I will try this in the morning when there's a bit more light.
Too bad I still don't live in my hometown (Savona NY) that is right around the corner from Dinqua in Honeoye NY.
This is where you mean right?
Yep thats it
Mal: "Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun?{ref, Jayne} Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really, it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting."
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Check Pants
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Is the bike stock? Meaning stock pipes? You've already verified the airbox is in place so thats why Im leaning towards stock and never rejetted. At the very least this rules out the top caps of the carbs and a pinched/damaged diaphragm. You don't have to remove the carbs to get to that fuel filter but its a pain. I haven't had an air box in either bike for such a long time I don't even remember how to get to it if the air box is there. Sorry, wish I had better info here. You may want to put this on the back burner for now tho. Can you take a pic of the cracks in the air box outlets and post them so we can see how bad they may be. I make the above statement because I saw something in your second pic that triggered another option for you to look at but first that hose you asked about... its ok. The air box will have a drain hose or two and the fuel tank will have a vent hose. All of those come out under the crankcase. The vent hoses from the air box may also be plugged and if you find that its ok and normal. Now... the other thing I noticed is that your bike has all the Ca emissions crap on it. You'll have one or two solenoids and a couple carbon canisters (one is in your second pic next to the regulator/rectifier). As I mentioned earlier I have two bikes in the garage, both 07 Americas. One had the Ca Evap stuff (Karens bike), the other did not (mine). When Karen had some problems a couple years ago the symptoms were poor running, low power while twisting the throttle and dying or not idling as well as some very hard starting when the issues were present. It would happen whenever it felt like but would clear up until it happened again. I removed all that emissions stuff and have not had an issue since. Below are links to the Bike Bandit site so you can get a visual on what Im talking about. Seems there were two systems used (I had the first one). The solution on Karens bike was to remove it. Since we live in Wa I had no issue removing all that junk. When I did it left a couple vacuum ports open on the carbs but that was a simple fix. I used pieces of vacuum hose to link them left and right (not front to back). You can also go get some vac caps at the local auto parts store and use those to plug them. If you do this make sure the caps are snug and not loose in any way. Vacuum leaks will screw you us as well. http://www.bikebandit.com/2002-triumph-a...4727-and-higher http://www.bikebandit.com/2002-triumph-a...54726-and-belowI would suggest getting some vacuums caps (squirrel condoms) and bypassing the current hoses that are there. You don't have to remove everything, just the evap system hoses. Caution... You probably also have the AI system still installed. The most common tell is the silver/chrome tubes behind the spark plugs. This is also part of the emissions control and there should be one vacuum tube going form carb to under the fuel tank. You should leave that hose in place. Heres a link to a pic of that system: http://www.bikebandit.com/2002-triumph-america-emissions-controlWhile your checking all this stuff check your plug wire connections at the coils. Under the tank, towards the front you have two coils (one for each plug). Make sure the wires are in there and are not too lose. You should not be able to pull on them and have them just fall of. There should be some snugness to the fit (sorry, my big boy words are escaping me right now).
Last edited by Zmilin; 03/22/2012 7:11 AM.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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So the pipes are not stock. They have bubs on them. But this was done back in 04-06 before I owned the bike. I've put 18000 miles on it since 06 in it's current config with no issues until last year. I am assuming this would rule out any problems with the top caps of the carbs and a pinched/damaged diaphragm?
I will pick up some caps to bypass the CA emissions. Do you know the correct size for these caps? 5/16ths or 3/8ths?
I didn't see any chrome tubes behind the spark plugs. All three of the vacumn tubes go back between the carbs, then down.
The plug wire connections are nice and tight at the coils. I did notice that last night while I had the bike running. BTW it ran much smoother than before, I could rev it up somewhat. It would still lose power at higher rpms but now between 3-4k. I drove it a few hundred yards down the street and back at low speed and it would almost die when starting and it had low power. I got back and checked the pipes, the right side was cold. (a few days ago it was the left side). So it appears the right side isn't firing now. I do know the plugs are good and have spark.
Last edited by dmguild; 03/22/2012 12:05 PM.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Cool!
So now we know the AI is gone so that vacuum line isn't present.
We also know you haven't made any carb changes for some time so that eliminates a lot of possibilities there (the diaphragm, O rings, etc...).
I dont remember the size of cap needed. Cut a small piece of vacuum hose of and take it with you (unless someone on here chimes in with a size).
On the negative your firing issue has moved from left to right and that points to a bad CDI.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Okay I removed and capped off the vacumn hoses.
I drained the gas from the bowls and the gas looks pristine. No gunk or dirt, nothing.
I started her back up and I have same indications. Starts ok, idles good, revs up to about 3k okay, after that it dies out a bit. Right side still not firing.
That is weird, when i first drained it and put in some 110 + seafoam, the right side worked fine, the left was dead after running it for a hour or so, the left side sputtered and spit, then fired up and both ran fine.
I ran out of 110 and put it 92 recently, now the left side works and the right doesn't. But it is running smoother now than the past few days. Still not right though.
What is the CDI?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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So I pulled the right plug and dried it off well. Smelled it and could barely smell fuel. Put it back in, fired it up let it run for about 5 minutes. (nothing from the right side the whole time) then pulled the plug back out. I could barely see any dampness and only a slight smell of fuel. Should't it be wetter and stronger smell if it's not firing, but getting fuel?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Check Pants
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CDI is the ignition module. They exhibit similar symptoms when they are failing. Do a search for CDI or check the tech vault. I thought there was some troubleshooting steps for it.
Sounds like the bypassing the Emissions stuff helped a little. Does it start easier now?
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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It does start right up now, but then again I may have finally got all the gunky old gas and residue out of the system.
Oh and I looked at the gas I drained, when it first came out is was clear now after sitting a bit it's yellow/brownish. Is that normal?
Last edited by dmguild; 03/22/2012 3:11 PM.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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So if it's not firing on one side and you think it's not getting fuel then the bowl would be empty or overflowing into the air box...
Check your air box. Under the seat, three 8mm screws and pull the air filter. See if there's a puddle in there.
Aside from that I'm thinking CDI but those can be spendy. Maybe coils but both is a long shot. Maybe check the wires feeding the coils (pos/neg) at the front of the coil. Check for good connection.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Fe Butt
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If both are out then maybe the pick up coil or ignition fuse too.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Dup
Last edited by dmguild; 03/22/2012 3:35 PM.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
If both are out then maybe the pick up coil or ignition fuse too.
Both have never been out at the same time. First it was the left (back when I was trying to get it going again) and now that it is running, it's the right. That should rule out the fuse right?
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
Quote:
So if it's not firing on one side and you think it's not getting fuel then the bowl would be empty or overflowing into the air box...
Check your air box. Under the seat, three 8mm screws and pull the air filter. See if there's a puddle in there.
Aside from that I'm thinking CDI but those can be spendy. Maybe coils but both is a long shot. Maybe check the wires feeding the coils (pos/neg) at the front of the coil. Check for good connection.
This is gonna be a doozy of a question. How the heck to I get the seat off? I have 1 nut in the back that I can see. I have a roadster seat.
http://www.british-customs.com/triumph-america-speedmaster-roadster-seat.html
Where is the CDI so I can get the OEM p/n from it.
This site has after market ones that are more reasonable than the OEM, but i'm not sure if they will work.
http://www.procomeng.com/index.php?view=catalog&cat_id=5&brand_id=9&model_id=124
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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From what you describe chances are it isn't the fuse or pick up coil as both would most likely cause no fire at all.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Quote:
So if it's not firing on one side and you think it's not getting fuel then the bowl would be empty or overflowing into the air box...
Check your air box. Under the seat, three 8mm screws and pull the air filter. See if there's a puddle in there.
Aside from that I'm thinking CDI but those can be spendy. Maybe coils but both is a long shot. Maybe check the wires feeding the coils (pos/neg) at the front of the coil. Check for good connection.
Lol I figured out the seat. It was way too easy, that's why I was confused.
Got the air filter out, nothing in the bot of the air box. The filter smells kinda gassy though. Some gas reside in the box. Now that I think back to when the left side wasn't firing. There was a small drip of gas coming from behind the carbs. Now that the left side is firing, it's gone.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Sorry, I thought I had posted these awhile ago. Here are the pics of the Airbox cracks. Left side:  right side:  right side top: 
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Posts: 5,616 |
Do those cracks go all the way through?
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 57
Member
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OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 57 |
I'm not sure. I don't think so. I gently tried to stick a toothpick in there, but it stops part way in.
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Re: 04 America Carb Problems
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
The air box cracks aren't your biggest issue but they are an issue if they are letting too much air in there then you'll have a lean condition (I think).
Your bigger issue is that your not firing one one side or the other and since it seems to move left to right that points to the CDI.
Unless your really not getting fuel to one side or the other but I can't imagine that would happen sporadically or change sides.
The good news, if you purchase a CDI from Pinwallcycle on eBay, is that if it's not needed you can sell if for what you paid for it fairly easily.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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