 Another oil thread...
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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Just in case anyone was planning to do any maintenance this weekend on their rides, I found a pretty sweet deal on oil/filter at autozone. 4 qts synthetic mc oil, either 10w40 or 20w50 and a fram filter for 35 bucks. Choose from mobil 1, castrol, or valvoline. the mobil 1 I got was $11 a quart alone. I dont know if it's a nationwide thing or just here in the midwest, but I thought i'd share.
06 America 904
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 Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Looks like it's on here too:
I'll have to pick some up.
Thanks!
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I would only put a fram filter on an enemies bike. I only use drag specialties oil in my bike. You just as well say I got these batteries for my pacemaker real cheap.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Filter debates are overrated.
They all filter the oil.
Sometimes the ones that filter the best also restrict the oil flow or even clog prematurely.
They all keep the boulders from circulating, and that's all you really need them to do.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
They all do not filter oil. Ones like fram have bypass holes that allows the oil to flow around the filter media. Others have bypass valves in the bottom, that open at a whopping 10psi like harley filters. All filters have a by pass valve in the bottom that should open in the even of catastrophic filter media clogging to allow oil flow to the engine. all have anti drain back diaphrams too. some are made of paper. Fram filters have 63 square inches of filter media. Drag, K&N, and S&S, have 165. The larger the surface area the more oil that can flow. Thus the pores that allow unfiltered oil flow around the media. These holes allow huge particles to get through, about the size of the end of a needle. Dont take my word cut one open thats what I did.
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Fram has done away with the bypass now but the ends of the elements are still paper.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Some oil bypasses, some gets filtered. That's how they are able to maintain flow and pressure. The only reason you need more filter media is if you don't change it very often. Change often, no problem. I've always used whatever is on sale and I've NEVER had an oil related failure. And all engines that I have torn down (40 years wrenching for a living, so that would be a large number) that have had regular oil changes, regardless of filter brand have about the same amount of wear for the mileage. But really, use the ones you like and since you are running a business, by all means use those with good reputations. Good for your rep 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
So at pressure unfiltered oil can still get through?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I have not seen the internal construction of the new design so I don'[t know if any unfiltered oil can get past or not but it is my understanding not. Fram recalled quite a few of the filters we stock and the replacements have no bypass, it was in the service bulletin.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
We had a fairly big recall on the 3614 due to a defect causing failure. We also had an issue with a few having a pin hole in the end that is coated for you to grip. The hole is under the coating and takes a week or so top leak.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Some oil bypasses, some gets filtered. That's how they are able to maintain flow and pressure.
[The only reason you need more filter media is if you don't change it very often.
Change often, no problem. I've always used whatever is on sale and I've NEVER had an oil related failure.
And all engines that I have torn down (40 years wrenching for a living, so that would be a large number) that have had regular oil changes, regardless of filter brand have about the same amount of wear for the mileage.
But really, use the ones you like and since you are running a business, by all means use those with good reputations. Good for your rep
No sir, a larger surface area allows more oil to flow through the media at the same time, meaning More flow. More oil can flow through a large screen than a small one. 
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Only if the pressure gets too high, like a plugged medium. Some of the older filters used the partial bypass system instead of the valve but I'm pretty sure they all use a valve these days.
My old VW Beetle didn't have a filter at all but I changed the oil every 2000 miles and it never did smoke. I only put about 75,000 miles on it though before I sold it.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
Some oil bypasses, some gets filtered. That's how they are able to maintain flow and pressure.
[The only reason you need more filter media is if you don't change it very often.
Change often, no problem. I've always used whatever is on sale and I've NEVER had an oil related failure.
And all engines that I have torn down (40 years wrenching for a living, so that would be a large number) that have had regular oil changes, regardless of filter brand have about the same amount of wear for the mileage.
But really, use the ones you like and since you are running a business, by all means use those with good reputations. Good for your rep
No sir, a larger surface area allows more oil to flow through the media at the same time, meaning More flow. More oil can flow through a large screen than a small one.
Sure. No argument there. Just saying it doesn't matter if you change it often.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Just found this on a Tacoma forum:  And the OEM filter is bigger and longer than the others.
Last edited by bigbill; 03/17/2012 7:43 PM.
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Right, But thats a truck filter which is always bigger.
We just bought some motorcycle filters and cut them apart much to our disappointment in what we found in most filters. Needless to say I use drag, or K&N on every thing now. Every thing I care about any way.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Why I use 'The Pure One" web page
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Never even thought about purolator filters. I should get one and cut it up see for myself.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Filter Surgery done for you: web page
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Very cool. I should have thought through my experiment better and took more and better pics so I could publish here but at the time I was a bit short sighted thinking only about the store and the pics that I have here in my store.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Filter quality does make a difference. A good filter will take out impurities down to a smaller micron level. Not quite as important in an engine as in a hydraulic system but fewer particles means longer component life so every bit helps.
Surface area is also important. More surface area not only reduces restrictions but holds more dirt/soot/etc (more area means more dirt carrying capacity) resulting in cleaner oil. Better filters have better quality construction so that the filter media doesn't separate at the ends or tear at joints.
I don't skimp on filters and oil.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Have to watch media because if the media is too fine it can actually filter out the additives.I believe 10 microns is the cut off but not 100% on that anymore. (the mind fails with age  )
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Right, But thats a truck filter which is always bigger.
Yeah, I would assume that the ratios would carry over to the smaller filters as well.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Filter Surgery done for you:web page
Looks like they all filter the oil.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 126
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 126 |
K&N oil filter 204 is the best, nut on the bottom makes easy on and off!
03 Speedmaster
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
K&N oil filter 204 is the best, nut on the bottom makes easy on and off!
Best for what? That nut on the bottom also increases the exposure to filter damage from debris/road hazard contact.
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote from the filter surgery page as to the K&N: Made by Hi Flo. Average filter with a $6 nut welded onto the end cap.
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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Posts: 2,647 |
Never had a problem with fram on anything.
06 America 904
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688 |
Here is the factory Triumph filter from my bike. This was the first oil change after the 500 mile break-in interval. Found very little metal a testament to quality engine design and assembly. My cutter is getting old so its a little rough.  
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 688
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I use Triumph filters (Filtech) and Mobil-1 oil no doubt both are high quality. One less thing to worry about.
2011 Triumph America (10/2011 to 07/2014)
2012 Harley Davidson 1200C Sportster
2014 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Have to watch media because if the media is too fine it can actually filter out the additives.I believe 10 microns is the cut off but not 100% on that anymore. (the mind fails with age )
Harley says their filter filters down to 5 microns, but we know its not true the media may be that fine but the bypass opens at 10 psi so it really filters nothing.
amsoil says 20 microns, But I agree with Ian 10 is the finest you would ever want to use. A red blood cell is 7 microns in diameter and 3 microns thick.
I think allowing a paricle twice the size of a red blood cell get through is fine by me. As long as all the oil gets filtered not circulated through a bypass or filter design flaw.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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About bypass valves. I would rather have the valve open and let unfiltered oil through than to blow a hole in the media releasing bits of filter material or even worse, not letting any oil through. Changing oil and filter on a 3-5K mile interval should prevent any issues. 
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Re: Another oil thread...
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 117
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Not that it really matters because I've found that everyone has their own opinion on oil, but I use the K&N 204 and 10W40 Mobil 1 oil.
I've never had any problems with the K&N filter. I used the use the Triumph filter, until my local Triumph mechanic suggested the K&N. Never any problems with road damage, and the bolt defiantly makes removal much easier. Just make sure you don't over tighten it.
2005 Green America
Fishtail Exhaust, Whitewalls, ISO Grips, Light bar with Relo Turnsignals
"...To them, I'm just a screaming ball of noise."
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