Bonneville America Forums Forums General Motorcycle Forums Other Bikes Audi to buy Ducati

Audi has done very well the last few years, I just bought my honey her second Q5 and it is a primo comfy & class ride. Ducati will do well to have Audi ownership, they will not skimp on the quality of the bike or screw with what works.

First rule of action is to put a Giant Black Grill Radiator in front of the engine.
Second rule of action is to install an umbrella holder somewhere on the bike.
Third rule is the automatic, out of control accelerator; zero to eighty five when you least expect it in your garage (ok, poor joke).

Slipped my mind.

Yep. As I'm sure you now remember, that whole thing almost bankrupted Audi at the time. It took many many years for their reputation to be repaired.

As a side note, you've probably read that Toyota has very recent been exonerated in regard to this recent issue by a number of independent automotive research and engineering firms.

(...yep, evidently it was just another case of societal mass hysteria...oh, with also more than a few fortune hunters trying to get-rich-quick off the whole thing)

And the Audi issue was like the Toyota issue, driver errors.

A bit different.
With Audi the brake and accelerator pedals were very close together and the same height, so close that people were pressing the brake and the right edge of their shoe would catch the left side of the accelerator and press it at the same time. The driver not realizing what was happening would panic and press the brake harder which would also press the accelerator. Afterward they would swear they were on the brake (they were) and witnesses said they saw the brake lights on would agree.

The Toyota situation is a different matter beginning with a higher than average number of unintended acceleration cases being reported to the NHTSA before the first tragic crash when an off duty state trooper (not your average driver) was driving a Lexus and could not get it under control.

Unlike the Audi situation decades earlier we have a new element ETC (Electronic Throttle Control). I hate them and today every car manufacturer uses them. IIRC the new Tiger Explorer is the first Triumph with ETC. The benifits are integrated traction and cruise control functions where the ECU takes direct control of engine RPM from the driver. It can also initinate a limp home reduced power mode in event of certain malfunctions. The problem is the driver no longer has direct mechanical control. People who wonder why the state trooper in the crash didnt shift into netural or turn the engine off need to know the driver no longer has direct control...the transmission shift function is not mechanical the shifter is just an electric select switch and the ECU is shifting the transmission with electric solenoids. The Lexus had push button start which also goes through the ECU. Also to shut off a moving vehicle the driver would have to remember to hold the button in for 3-4 continious seconds not just tap it like normal shut down in park.

The Toyota ETC self diag system was esentially a duplicate of the primary circuit meaning a malfunction could take both out. Another problem is Toyota did not program a brake failsafe override into the ECU. The recall added that program which orders the ECU to override accelerator pedal input and return the engine to idle speed if the brake is held for more than 3 seconds and the ECU detects the accelerator is also engaged. All of which assumes the ECU is still working normally and can perform these functions.

Add to this we now have a market wide shift to electric steering controled by the ECU not mechanically linked to the driver. This is how new cars can "park themselves."

In the old days it was an easy matter to identify mechanical malfunctions and design defects. But todays vehicles rely on complex multiple ECUs for vehicle control safety systems. Failures can be intermittent and almost impossible to duplicate.

Yeah OB, evidently this same thing is also an issue with Bentleys now too!

Well, at least according to that "poor" Houston Texas millionaire who's currently on trial for Hit and Run, Drunk Driving AND Manslaughter in a Florida courtroom, and who's accused of drinking approximately 10 to 15 shots, getting behind the wheel of his Bentley, and then crashing into another motorist in a Hyundai and pushing it upside-down into a canal, where he ultimately drowned.

(...yep, it sure is a good thing the "poor" guy has adopted his girlfriend so he can protect his millions of dollars in the meantime and before he sues the Bentley car company for THEIR malfeasance, huh?!)

What's your point? That people get drunk, crash then try to blame anything or anyone else? Ok, agreed.

I assure you electronic failures can occur that can cause loss of vehicle control. Is it extremely rare? Yes. Is driver error the vast majority of the cause of claimed vehicle control failure? Yes. But it can and does happen.

One example: I was a tech at a dealer in the early 90's and a panicked phone call came in from a lady who said her brand new 1-week old car just took off on her through a busy intersection. She was only a couple of miles away and her tone and claim were so compelling a manager and I drove to her. When we arrived the woman and her young son were terrified and staring at the car like it just tried to kill them. At this point I thought it wasnt the brand new car must have been her. I opened the door and found the transmission shifter in neutral and the key off parking brake set. Popped the hood and could not believe what I saw, the throttle was jammed wide open! I grabbed the throttle and after a snap it rotated closed then operated smooth and normal. I personally drove it back to the dealership. We examined the throttle system and found the cause. During the assembly of this paticular vehicle on the line a small plastic part of the wiper link had been accidentally dropped into the cruise control actuator linkage then the cruise actuator cover was installed over the bellcrank assy trapping it inside. Assembly line workers sometimes drop hardware and just grab another one to complete the job without stopping the line to find the one that was dropped. What are the odds of it causing a problem like this? After riding around harmlessly for a week that day the light changed to yellow at the intersection, the driver applied wide open throttle (probably for the first time since buying the car) and the clip jammed the throttle wide open. The driver fortunately avoided collision, shifted to neutral and turned the key off. She did not sue but she would not get near that car again and traded it in on a different model that day.

Tell her about 1 in 10,000 odds.

Of course this was long before the advent of ETC systems. And this was not a design defect but an assembly problem with just one vehicle. But I use this example because I personally verified what happened without doubt which can rarely be done. If she had crashed causing massive damage the reason may have never been found.


oh yea.. sorry

Yep, you guessed it, OB.(btw, what IS your given name anyway?) My point was to make fun of that millionaire moron's almost assuredly trumped-up excuse for his actions in that Bentley.

(...though I did enjoy reading of your experience with that malfunctioning car)

One thing I've got to know, and I've often seen it on here, but what does "IIRC" stand for?

I know it's something obvious, but I can't for the life of me think what

If I Recall Correctly

Thanks John

Apologize for the long posts lately, too much time on whats left of my hands...


Glenn