 Re: Global Warming?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Luddites?  No,no, no. Those who encourage and support the development of new technologies are not "Luddites".
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I believe we need new tech and should cut pollution where ever we can but people should not be so alarmist about it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Aw, c'mon Ian. Hate ,fear, and anger are staples 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Luddites was the wrong word, no doubt. No one doesn't believe in funding research and development, either private or public, but full blown public financing production is socializing risk and losses, but not profit. Considering our recent history of gov picking winners and losers, it's just a bad idea. As the Spanish studies conclude alternative energies don't pay off and cost jobs. Also as European countries, who have been at this a lot longer than we, are one by one ending subsidies. Many utilities have to buy a proscribed percentage of KWs from renewables, wind or solar companies. What many electric rate payers don't know is that when the wind don't blow or the sun don't shine the electric utility has to reimburse the renewable firms for half their losses. None of this really cost us anything, because the gov has no money. It's the earnings of people not even born. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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Quote:
As the Spanish studies conclude alternative energies don't pay off yet
I believe you left out the word in bold.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
full blown public financing production
Show some examples so I can either agree with or refute your argument 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Luddites?
No,no, no. Those who encourage and support the development of new technologies are not "Luddites".
New technology is most assuredly NOT what the anti oil/coal greenies support. They support hugely expensive "alternatives" that require massive tax subsidies and are notoriously undependable.. They oppose all oil drilling, coal mining, nuclear power and hydro electricity. The net effect of their policies would be to increase energy costs exponentially and reduce the standard of living for the vast majority of the population. They propagate the fictions of anthropogenic global warming and imminent oil shortages while simultaneously doing everything they can to prohibit energy production from proven technologies. If we followed their demands and cut energy use by some huge percentage the only result would be a fraction of a degree reduction of global warming (that's assuming their own computer generated predictions are correct) and a catastrophic reduction in the standard of living for all but the annointed few (Al Gore comes to mind.) Luddites? Yes, that's exactly what they are.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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As for electric cars, what are you going to plug them into? A windmill? A solar cell? I can see it now, "Sorry boss, I can't make it into work today. There wasn't much wind last night and the sun hasn't been up long enough to charge my car." After all, if we follow the demands of the greenies we won't be allowed any other energy sources. Right now the electric cars are largely powered by coal fired electric plants. Sounds pretty "green" to me.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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As for electric cars, what are you going to plug them into? A windmill? A solar cell? I can see it now, "Sorry boss, I can't make it into work today. There wasn't much wind last night and the sun hasn't been up long enough to charge my car." After all, if we follow the demands of the greenies we won't be allowed any other energy sources. Right now the electric cars are largely powered by coal fired electric plants. Sounds pretty "green" to me.
Well, Larry, for all your sarcasm, yes. As a matter of fact I have seen a factor in Italy that powers charging stations quite successfully for their employees using solar panels over parts of their employee parking lot and on the roof of their plant. Also, using those unreliable panels, they generate enough power to offset the power from the grid to run large machining centers for making high precision grinding machines (the company is Meccanica Nova in Bologna, Italy for reference) Pretty sure that if they can power large CNC machining centers that charging an EV shouldn't be too challenging. Further, given that most wind turbines actually run quite a bit at night due to the fact that winds are often stronger after sunset, a standard 3.5MW wind turbine could charge quite a few cars.
Lastly, I know I might as well explain this to the wall for all the good it will do, please tell me how much fuel and emissions a normal gas or diesel engine emits while stuck in traffic in pretty much any large city, or medium city? How much do they emit coasting to a stop? Or creeping at 10 mph in traffic? I can tell you how much an EV uses, ZILCH. An EV shuts down all but enough to power a very low voltage monitoring system for the foot pedal and auxiliaries like the car stereo, navigation, etc... In stop and go traffic, EV's recover energy due to regenerative breaking, rather than pissing it away in heat lost to brake pads (during which time and ICE is still burning fuel). Yes, most EV's will initially use electricity from coal fired power plants, but the emissions for generating that power come mostly at night when plants are idling due to reduced load, and those emissions are regulated via a single or a few exhaust stacks that are much more efficient at regulating emissions than thousands of tailpipes. And, if we move to nuclear, or supplement with wind or solar, then the reliance on coal drops, so yeah, actually Larry, sounds greener than someone driving a 8 year old Chrysler minivan or a standard F150 or Suburban in rush hour traffic. A heck of a lot more....
By the way, your allusion to "the greenies" shutting off all other forms of fuel is a BS argument. That is what some hardline greens want, but most mainstream people who look at this are much more pragmatic about coal, gas and nuke. Shoot, there are people on the hard right that want equally ridiculous things, but I don't ascribe their nutjob demands and beliefs to the entire conservative population. But, using scare tactics seems to be an effective debate tactic, scare everyone into believing that the evil green Nazis are going to make us move back to the Stone Age.....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
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full blown public financing production
Show some examples so I can either agree with or refute your argument
$60 Billion In Grants Grants For Production
Free money
30% Tax Credit For Production
30% Investment Tax Credit In Lieu Of Production Tax credit For Tax Purposes
Repeal Of State and Local Tax Funding Adverse Effects For Fed tax Purposes
Not to mention the guaranteeing of energy loans for production, like to Sollyndra (sp). Defaulted loans that the taxpayer is stuck for. Interestingly, the media keeps asking who will be the next Sollyndra, well there has been about three or four next Sollyndras.
These idiots have even given loans for overseas production.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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As the Spanish studies conclude alternative energies don't pay off yet
I believe you left out the word in bold.
Read the studies, the Spanish have ended all alternative energy subsidies and this happened before the European economic crisis.
Germany, the country always sighted because of all the windmills one sees when visiting, are ending alternative energy subsidies. They have determined it's a drain on the economy.
Britain will, if they haven't already done so.
Europe has been in this ballgame much longer than the USA, they have seen the hand writing on the wall.
I'm all for electric autos, especially in concentrated populations of large cities, for commuting. I'd rather see private investment, especially with all the cash sitting on the sideline in this economy. The gov investment and subsidies would be better spent hardening and upgrading the electric grid, estimated cost of $600+ billion. Every American would benefit and the sh-t wouldn't hit the fan when electric autos get affordable, among other advantages.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Aw, c'mon Ian. Hate ,fear, and anger are staples
I've never been blessed, with the ability to read another man's heart.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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I wonder if, during the time of Spindletop, the conservatives were insisting we stick with oil from whale blubber?
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Actually Mac the Germans are not stopping subsidies, according to an article in Der Spiegel this week. Unfortunately they are concentrating the money on solar and less on wind and geothermal, even though wind and geothermal are 5-10times more efficient than solar. They currently have 26 GW of solar capacity installed. This decision is not popular with the greens they would rather see more investment in wind, geothermal and biomass.,
With regard to the UK, they are talking about mature technologies subsidies such as those for solar and onshore wind generation. Utility companies expect those to be fully viable economically by 2020. Offshore wind would still need economic assistance because of the technical challenges. Even the greens are calling for an end to subsidies for onshore wind and solar in Germany and the UK.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I think you will see the biggest jump in the use of electric vehicles in uses like transit buses, and delivery vehicles such as UPS and Fedex type companies. We are currently building 200 propulsion units for UPS and FedEx for their test fleets. Reducing fuel consumption this way would be a huge boon for such companies and would be easy to implement on dedicated route uses.
Last edited by Bayern710; 07/08/2012 8:35 PM.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Our economy is totally based on the consumption of oil and its cousins. Motor vehicle fuel, electricity, plastic, etc... The easily available supply of oil and natural gas has been decreasing since the early 70s. Offshore drilling and 'fracking' of natural gas have become more commonplace, and controversial. High quality coal is more expensive to mine because the more accessible seams have been played out.
As oil, natural gas and coal become more scarce, the cost of everything will skyrocket. Other forms of energy cannot supplant the energy required for heavy manufacturing.
Our entire agricultural production is reliant on oil. Not just to power or make the machinery, but in the creation of fertilizer and other chemicals. Vast areas of the west provide food for the rest of the country, and the world. Many of those areas would be totally arid, were it not for the gasoline powered pumps spreading the water across the fields.
I am not making this up! Check out 'The Long Emergency" by James Howard Kunstler.
Ted
Ted
Send lawyers, guns and money, cause the sh*t has hit the fan!
-W. Zevon
2020 Bud Ekins T100
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
I wonder if, during the time of Spindletop, the conservatives were insisting we stick with oil from whale blubber?
It won't take you long to Google "Standard Oil History" to find out. No one ever accused JD and his colleagues of being liberal. 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I've actually been seeing a resurgence of windmills for irrigation further east of our place since our supply of wind is almost unending along the Front Range and east. People also talk of 1-200 years of oil available so that we have plenty of time, but as we approach that end period if true oil products will rapidly become unaffordable to all but a few and our global economy will grind to a halt for most of us.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
Our economy is totally based on the consumption of oil and its cousins. Motor vehicle fuel, electricity, plastic, etc... The easily available supply of oil and natural gas has been decreasing since the early 70s. Offshore drilling and 'fracking' of natural gas have become more commonplace, and controversial. High quality coal is more expensive to mine because the more accessible seams have been played out.
As oil, natural gas and coal become more scarce, the cost of everything will skyrocket. Other forms of energy cannot supplant the energy required for heavy manufacturing.
Our entire agricultural production is reliant on oil. Not just to power or make the machinery, but in the creation of fertilizer and other chemicals. Vast areas of the west provide food for the rest of the country, and the world. Many of those areas would be totally arid, were it not for the gasoline powered pumps spreading the water across the fields.
I am not making this up! Check out 'The Long Emergency" by James Howard Kunstler.
Ted
Ted
Ted, we have been apparently at "peak oil" since 1965, also the "ice age" was scheduled for the 1980s and the "Population Bomb" was going to starve us to death by 2010.
There is no shortages of oil, coal or gas, Mr. Kunstler isn't current with the news. The sky is not falling, yet.
Oh,by the way Mr.Kunstler is a writer and social critic, attended New York State at Brockport, where he majored in theater.
Last edited by MACMC; 07/08/2012 9:55 PM.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Wow Larry, that's pretty bizarre. Even for you.
Let me see if I understand correctly: There are only two positions in your world, tree spikers and those who kowtow to the oil industry. That about it? Only lunatic fringes?
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
full blown public financing production
Show some examples so I can either agree with or refute your argument
$60 Billion In Grants Grants For Production
Free money
30% Tax Credit For Production
30% Investment Tax Credit In Lieu Of Production Tax credit For Tax Purposes
Repeal Of State and Local Tax Funding Adverse Effects For Fed tax Purposes
Not to mention the guaranteeing of energy loans for production, like to Sollyndra (sp). Defaulted loans that the taxpayer is stuck for. Interestingly, the media keeps asking who will be the next Sollyndra, well there has been about three or four next Sollyndras.
These idiots have even given loans for overseas production.
And the oil industry also gets tax breaks, incentives, low interest loans, etc. All are forms of financial support and can be considered subsidies.
Federal, state, and local tax dollars also go to support oil industry related infrastructure.
Now don't think that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that, but sauce for the goose and sauce for the gander, and both benefit.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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I saw the owner of the biggest taxi fleet around here on TV the other day talking about their new cars. They had switched entirely to hybrids. The interviewer was talking as if they had switched to antimatter reactors while the taxi owner sounded as if it were a complete no brainer and couldn't believe the other fella thought it was news. His final comment was, "I do this to make money and I make a lot more money with hybrids."
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
Quote:
As for electric cars, what are you going to plug them into? A windmill? A solar cell? I can see it now, "Sorry boss, I can't make it into work today. There wasn't much wind last night and the sun hasn't been up long enough to charge my car." After all, if we follow the demands of the greenies we won't be allowed any other energy sources. Right now the electric cars are largely powered by coal fired electric plants. Sounds pretty "green" to me.
Well, Larry, for all your sarcasm, yes. As a matter of fact I have seen a factor in Italy that powers charging stations quite successfully for their employees using solar panels over parts of their employee parking lot and on the roof of their plant. Also, using those unreliable panels, they generate enough power to offset the power from the grid to run large machining centers for making high precision grinding machines (the company is Meccanica Nova in Bologna, Italy for reference) Pretty sure that if they can power large CNC machining centers that charging an EV shouldn't be too challenging. Further, given that most wind turbines actually run quite a bit at night due to the fact that winds are often stronger after sunset, a standard 3.5MW wind turbine could charge quite a few cars.
Lastly, I know I might as well explain this to the wall for all the good it will do, please tell me how much fuel and emissions a normal gas or diesel engine emits while stuck in traffic in pretty much any large city, or medium city? How much do they emit coasting to a stop? Or creeping at 10 mph in traffic? I can tell you how much an EV uses, ZILCH. An EV shuts down all but enough to power a very low voltage monitoring system for the foot pedal and auxiliaries like the car stereo, navigation, etc... In stop and go traffic, EV's recover energy due to regenerative breaking, rather than pissing it away in heat lost to brake pads (during which time and ICE is still burning fuel). Yes, most EV's will initially use electricity from coal fired power plants, but the emissions for generating that power come mostly at night when plants are idling due to reduced load, and those emissions are regulated via a single or a few exhaust stacks that are much more efficient at regulating emissions than thousands of tailpipes. And, if we move to nuclear, or supplement with wind or solar, then the reliance on coal drops, so yeah, actually Larry, sounds greener than someone driving a 8 year old Chrysler minivan or a standard F150 or Suburban in rush hour traffic. A heck of a lot more....
By the way, your allusion to "the greenies" shutting off all other forms of fuel is a BS argument. That is what some hardline greens want, but most mainstream people who look at this are much more pragmatic about coal, gas and nuke. Shoot, there are people on the hard right that want equally ridiculous things, but I don't ascribe their nutjob demands and beliefs to the entire conservative population. But, using scare tactics seems to be an effective debate tactic, scare everyone into believing that the evil green Nazis are going to make us move back to the Stone Age.....
The "right wingers" don't tie up every new energy plant in 10-25 years of litigation. They haven't declared that they want to run the coal companies out of business using the EPA (Gee, guess who said THAT?) They didn't decide to shut down as many gulf oil platforms as possible, stop a pipeline from Canada (same guy) or put much of Alaska's oil off limits in order to "save" some frozen mud flats. Are those are the "Mainstream" greenies? Well they have been appointed to positions in the government and are running things right now.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
I saw the owner of the biggest taxi fleet around here on TV the other day talking about their new cars. They had switched entirely to hybrids. The interviewer was talking as if they had switched to antimatter reactors while the taxi owner sounded as if it were a complete no brainer and couldn't believe the other fella thought it was news. His final comment was, "I do this to make money and I make a lot more money with hybrids."
I wonder what percentage of that money comes from tax credits?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
Wow Larry, that's pretty bizarre. Even for you.
Let me see if I understand correctly: There are only two positions in your world, tree spikers and those who kowtow to the oil industry. That about it? Only lunatic fringes?
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the Sierra Club types are running the EPA, National Park Service and the Department of the Interior right now. The lunatic fringe is in power.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
We need balance, we can't destroy the environment to gain energy but can't put every place off limits either. Should have done the pipeline, should be getting the oil in Alaska, should be drilling off shore but should do it responsibly.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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New Tires
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New Tires
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"tax credits"?, To reach the promise of one million electric and hybrid autos on the road by 2015, the gov should just start giving them away. In bad news, some are hoping the heavily DOE subsidized battery company A123 has enough cash to stay in business till after November. In good news, GM Volt sales are up 16% in the 2nd quarter, the Fed's fleet bought 80% of that increase. Wonder how many units they'll buy in the 3rd QTR?
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 593
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
I saw the owner of the biggest taxi fleet around here on TV the other day talking about their new cars. They had switched entirely to hybrids. The interviewer was talking as if they had switched to antimatter reactors while the taxi owner sounded as if it were a complete no brainer and couldn't believe the other fella thought it was news. His final comment was, "I do this to make money and I make a lot more money with hybrids."
I wonder how much of the electricity used by these hybrid cars was produced by burning coal. And, as mentioned previously, what about the batteries? Are we going to ship them third world countries like we do with electronic waste? Being environmentally friendly is more than simply buying into 'oil is evil'!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Wow Larry, that's pretty bizarre. Even for you.
Let me see if I understand correctly: There are only two positions in your world, tree spikers and those who kowtow to the oil industry. That about it? Only lunatic fringes?
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the Sierra Club types are running the EPA, National Park Service and the Department of the Interior right now. The lunatic fringe is in power.
Yeah, next thing you know they'll be starting unjustified wars.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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Quote:
Quote:
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Wow Larry, that's pretty bizarre. Even for you.
Let me see if I understand correctly: There are only two positions in your world, tree spikers and those who kowtow to the oil industry. That about it? Only lunatic fringes?
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the Sierra Club types are running the EPA, National Park Service and the Department of the Interior right now. The lunatic fringe is in power.
Yeah, next thing you know they'll be starting unjustified wars.
Yeah, those so-called "unjustified wars""for oil" are still going on, one wonders where all the antiwar protest went after Nov 2008. Hypocritical much?
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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What I want to know is where the power is going to come from when more people start plugging in those electric cars. Right now too many AC units at once causes rolling black outs and they are constantly saying not to run them if you don't have to then they want a few million electric cars charging at once too?
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wow Larry, that's pretty bizarre. Even for you.
Let me see if I understand correctly: There are only two positions in your world, tree spikers and those who kowtow to the oil industry. That about it? Only lunatic fringes?
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the Sierra Club types are running the EPA, National Park Service and the Department of the Interior right now. The lunatic fringe is in power.
Yeah, next thing you know they'll be starting unjustified wars.
Yeah, those so-called "unjustified wars""for oil" are still going on, one wonders where all the antiwar protest went after Nov 2008. Hypocritical much?
You don't keep up with the news, I see. Protest ending the wars? Why would anybody do that?
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
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I do agree that we shouldn't have ANY troops in the Middle East at all. They are just targets and they are defending the multinational oil companies. Bring them home.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
What I want to know is where the power is going to come from when more people start plugging in those electric cars. Right now too many AC units at once causes rolling black outs and they are constantly saying not to run them if you don't have to then they want a few million electric cars charging at once too?
If there was a tremendous influx of the vehicles I'm sure you would be right. I doubt that the trickle of new cars coming into the fleet will have much of an effect but it is certainly one more reason to be concerned about our over stressed and antiquated grid.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 593
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 593 |
Quote:
I do agree that we shouldn't have ANY troops in the Middle East at all. They are just targets and they are defending the multinational oil companies. Bring them home.
And how would that help prevent global warming?
Not only is this way to political but it is also way off topic.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,146 |
Quote:
Quote:
I do agree that we shouldn't have ANY troops in the Middle East at all. They are just targets and they are defending the multinational oil companies. Bring them home.
And how would that help prevent global warming?
Not only is this way to political but it is also way off topic.
The extra weight on the opposite side of the planet is making the Earth shimmy.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 231
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 231 |
Well, I didn't mean to come off as some kind of 'the world is ending' alarmist. But I really do believe in the accuracy of much of what Mr. Kunstler is writing about. Not necessarily with all of his conclusions.
But...the amount of oil is finite. It is becoming more difficult, ergo expensive, to draw it from the ground. That makes it more scarce to consumers. The scarcity combined with the cost of production results in a higher price. It is a lot cheaper to poke a hole in the Permian Basin to get oil, than it is to do the same in the Gulf of Mexico or the North Slope.
Other factors, like OPEC and spikes in demand also determine price. But the price, while it fluctuates, continues to rise over time. I think the only way the price will come down, or even hold steady, is if there is another energy source which becomes a competitor for the demand.
I'm not seeing one yet.
Mr. Kunstler is indeed a social critic and writer, but so was Upton Sinclair, and Hunter S. Thompson. Each of them had some good thoughts.
Ted
Send lawyers, guns and money, cause the sh*t has hit the fan!
-W. Zevon
2020 Bud Ekins T100
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
Yeah, those so-called "unjustified wars""for oil" are still going on, one wonders where all the antiwar protest went after Nov 2008. Hypocritical much?
With all due respect Mac, we are out of Iraq and in the starting phase of drawing down in Afghanistan (which of course has nothing to do with oil,although the revelation that it is LOADED in precious metals and other valuable minerals sure got China's and everyone elses attention!) If you are getting out of a country you are involved in, then protesting a war seems pretty much a waste of time. I suspect the Crash of '08 also proved to be a bigger distraction for many hardworking Americans who suddenly wondered about the next paycheck, let alone what was happening in Baghdad....
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
OH, one little point of contention about "where is the electricity going to come from?" When new companies announce that they are building a huge new airframe assembly plant (Airbus) or car plants are going up (BMW, VW, Mercedes, Hyundai, etc...) or any other large energy user such as that, you never hear a pip from anyone about "where is the electricity going to come from to run these plants". However, we talk about taking a car off the road and replacing it with the same 220V charger your drier or a shop supply uses (say in a new 300 unit subdivision going up anywhere right now) and suddenly the grid is going to collapse. Funny how suddenly something is a big problem when we're talking about an electric car, but when it's a new subdivision full of high end energy sucking McMansions and all is well... Now, having said that, I've said for years now that this country NEEDS to stop dickering around with our infrastructure and start upgrading NOW.
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Re: Global Warming?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I made no claims one way or the other, fact is "they" tell people every summer to watch the AC use due to overloading and rolling black outs. My only statement is that if that is the case then a large amount of these cars charging will be an added drain that we don't have now.I made no claim that it would or would not actually be a problem nor do I know how much the AC units actually play into the rolling black outs. I have been saying for a long time the infrastructure in the US needs to be reworked and never should have been let go to the point it is now. Bridges are a good example of failing infrastructure. It will be tough to do since we no longer have the mindset or ethic of working for the greater good we had back when it was first put in place. It is all selfish and "what do I get out of it" mentality.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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