 Header installation
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Joined: Sep 2006
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
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I removed my head pipes and sent them off for ceramic coating. As I was taking them off, one of the studs on the cylinder came out along with the nut, so I decided this would be a good time to remove and replace all of them. So, when reinstalling, how should I go about doing it?
I double nutted them for removal, but what about installation? It appears that the studs came with some kind of thread compound already on the part that goes into the head, so I shouldn't add anything else, correct?
I'm assuming that thread compound isn't needed on the exterior portions as they have locknuts.
I know that many of you have done this before, but my shop manual doesn't really give me much more than a torque setting and fitment instructions.
Thanks,
Ted
Send lawyers, guns and money, cause the sh*t has hit the fan!
-W. Zevon
2020 Bud Ekins T100
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
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I'm sure somebody will disagree with this, but I was taught to install studs that are subjected to high temps with anti-seize. Even red lock-tite is useless under temperature. So I say chase the female threads clean, anti-seize and torque to spec. Always has worked for me, from steam and gas turbines to lawnmower motors, anyway.
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Ah, yes. The anti-sieze debacle. Some will correctly argue that any lube on a threaded connection requiring the adherance to torque specifications will skew your set torque. However, I believe that a slight deviation on the setting in this application is surely better than a siezed stud later on. I'd slap the stuff on and go a tad light on the torque. They're probably gonna loosen up a tad anyway and you can lightly snug or re-torque from there. To keep the threads clean outside the nut in the futuer so the stud has less chance of spinning out, you may consider an accorn nut of some kind or double nut to cover the exposed threads of the stud and anti-sieze the crap out of them as they would not be subject to any torque requirement.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
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Contraire, a series of threaded fasteners dimensioned similarly, lubricated prior to torque sequence will always yield the closest attained level of compression and stretch as to bolt to bolt variation. Ask a mechanical engineer, had enough of those guys tell me that at work, yet again.
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
You're on the right track, double nutted and anti seized studs; that red loctite will just melt at the exhaust temps anyway.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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actually I thought the new studs came already coated?
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 231
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
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I checked with the dealer, and in fact the studs do come already coated with an snti-seize compound. So I guess I don't need anything. Thanks for the idea on adding an acorn nut, I'll give it a try.
Send lawyers, guns and money, cause the sh*t has hit the fan!
-W. Zevon
2020 Bud Ekins T100
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Contraire, a series of threaded fasteners dimensioned similarly, lubricated prior to torque sequence will always yield the closest attained level of compression and stretch as to bolt to bolt variation. Ask a mechanical engineer, had enough of those guys tell me that at work, yet again.
As I said - It will be argued
BOLT TORQUE FACTORS LUBRICANT OR PLATING TORQUE CHANGES Oil Reduce torque 15% to 25% Dry Film (Teflon or moly based) Reduce torque 50% Dry Wax (Cetyl alcohol) Reduce torque 50% Chrome plating No change Cadmium plating Reduce torque 25% Zinc plating Reduce torque 15%
From http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html
Bolt torque requirements metric and standard Bolt torque specification charts
Below is a list of bolt torques compiles from various machine tool manufacturers. In general the proper torque spec is usually around 65-70% of the failure torque rate. The below chart refers to usage in steel. Proper torque spec varies depending on the material, bolt grade or wether lubrication is used such as oil, wax, or anti-seize Always go to the manufacturer for proper torque specs if needed. Lubrication added to a dry bolt will typically reduce the torque value 15-25%. The below is approximate values and have not been validated for accuracy. If you require additional torque specs for other applications search on the internet or get in tough with your bolt supplier.
http://www.machinetoolhelp.com/Repairing/bolt-torque-chart.html
Last edited by pipedr; 01/11/2012 11:52 AM.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
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And what REALLY sucks is that when you take it to an authorized dealers shop, some of the mechanics will do it one way, and others will subscribe to the other theory! 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
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I got me a big can of Nuclear/Powerplant grade of anti-seize (non-metallic) on the bench, and I wouldn't be afraid of using it on anything that may need to come back apart in the future. I have as per installation specs applied anti-seize from everything from the top dome bolts on the largest blast furnace in America to 2mm bolts in clean rooms under construction. I was introduced to "Millwright Mayonnaise" in 1970 and old habits are hard to break.
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 Re: Header installation
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
And what REALLY sucks is that when you take it to an authorized dealers shop, some of the mechanics will do it one way, and others will subscribe to the other theory! 
Tru dat! Actually, I use the crap out of the stuff and always will. When you grow up poor and do your own repairs laying on your back on a gravel driveway in the dead of winter, you learn to take precautions that save time and effort and a bunch of cussing. I was only pointing out that there are different opinions and the anti anti-sieze school does have technical support. And I might add that the advice of an engineer or two can be a bit useless. I've had to work with them or for them nearly all my life. There is a consistant lack of real-life aptitude amoungst the majority and much of my work consisted of post engineered retro-fits so that things might actually function - and, yes - we anti-siezed the crap out of the bolts and even gasket faces. 
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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