Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Custom Corner Springer front end

Not too long ago a few people were checking into springer front ends for the BA. Has anyone followed through with this? Do you have pics? What were the results? Any info?

Matt

Poimen,

I believe Fryguy was exploring this possibility, even went as far as visiting Ozzie at QPD. I don't know how far he got though and whether he actually fitted one.

would there be any benifet other then looks?

Frank

I don't think so, from what I've read they are a huge handling compromise. (30's technology) They do look cool!

So no one has given it a try? Just curious?
I'll run the query by Fryguy.
Thanks for the info.

Most of the problems of springers can be overcome by using a girder frontend instead. And, the girder has a cleaner look as well. Since the entire assembly is one moving piece, the brake setup is simpler and you don't have the ill-fitting mudguard you see on springers. If you have back issues of Torque, I think there is a picture of a Triumph girder in the winter 2003 issue, the one with the writeup of the Aussie who set the no engine stop endurance record in the late 30's.
As for handling and ride, they aren't bad, but they will never be quite able to match a telescoping fork, and here is why:
The moving part of a springer travels on an arc at the lower end, but the travel is linear at the top. This means that both wheelbase and caster angle are constantly changing. They don't change enough to cause serious problems, but you do have to get used to it, it will feel very wierd at first.
Light mounting is a bit tricky because you have all those moving bits and springs in the way.
Hydraulic dampers on springers tend to be ugly, go look at the late model HD springers. Friction dampers look better, but work a lot worse.
2 1/2 to 3 inches of travel is a lot on a springer.
The mudguard is usually mounted to the stationary part. This reduces the unsprung weight, but it can be ugly and look poorly placed.
The unsprung weight is usually less than girder and telescoping forks, which is a good thing.
The moving fork is usually welded or brazed into a relatively short single piece. This makes it reasonably rigid and immune to variation from side to side.
Spring tension is very easy to adjust on most springers.

A girder is mounted on 2 pairs of swiveling mounts. The wheelbase changes a lot, but the caster angle doesn't change.
Since the whole assembly moves as one piece, there is no problem with mounting brakes etc. This also makes it possible to mount the mudguard so that it looks like it belongs.
The amount of unsprung weight is much more than a springer and can be more than a telescoping fork.
Because the moving part is farther forward than on a springer, a hydraulic damper can be partly hidden so that it looks better.
Typical travel for a girder is 3 to 3 1/2, sometimes 4, inches. Better than a springer and worse than a modern telescoping fork.

Both require a lot more care. The swivel points must be lubricated manually and frequently checked for wear.

hey bedouin thanx for all the info. i know there are a lot of handling problems with the springer vs. what we have now. i just wasent ssure if there as ssome sort of advance in the technology. thanx for the info and no prob about the long pose haha appreciate all the info and i am sure others got something out of it also. thanx.

Frank

Frank - no prob, it's a pleasure.

Greybeard,

Many thanks for the information on the girder frontend.
Do you have, or know of anywhere I can see a pic of a modern girder frontend application?
Do you know of any such item that would fit our bikes, or anyone that custom builds them?

As in the past, you have added to my education, thanks.

that would look really cool!!

I read where Donnie Smith was going to start making a new tech. girder.I don`t know if he would make one for our Triumph`s,but it would be a place to start.I had a 18 over p&P girder on my sportster in the early 80`s and it rode and handled great.They are no longer in business though.I see them on ebay now and then.The neck post was interchangable on them ,so you could swap it out for a custom one that would fit our bikes i`m sure.There`s an idea!Differant is ALLWAYS better....................

WOW a springer front end on your Triumphs, you guys sure like putting those Harley-Davidson parts on your Triumphs don't ya? Why don't you get yourselves some Harley emblems at the local dealership and slap those on the side of your tanks while your at it, at least you would be half way there lol!!

Backporch790

backporch -

please enlighten us oh most knowledgeable of motorcycle suspensions !!

show us that path leading to knowledge of HD being the inventor of same.

please also inform us why every HD rider on the planet replaces every part of their motorcycle with exception to the frame & sells all the original HD parts on EBay for next to nothing !

Score one for BACKPORCH

Hey guys Backporch is right, stop trying to make your bike a Harley. Lets not stop at the front end though. Let's start with that thing you sit on. Yeah, the seat! Harleys have those. We better get rid of em, and don't forget those round things with the spokes. Harleys use those too. I better get those dang wheels off my bike. Man, I just noticed Harleys have fenders. I guess those are next on the chopping block.....

I can`t speak for anyone else but for me it`s not about being like harley`s.It`s about making my bike my own.As far as harley being first with a girder front end,i don`t think so my friend.Triumph used girder front ends on the first bike they made-one year BEFORE harley.So you need to do your homework before you try to talk about something you know nothing about.Customizing isn`t for everyone and i`m glad it`s not.Trying to make mine differant for everything else is what i enjoy.To each his own.Oh yeh when we are at a rally and you can`t find your bike among all the other stock triumph`s..........don`t ask for my help....

back porch to each his own. When I first saw a BA I thought the bike would look great with an extended springer/grider front end. It takes a true motorcycle connoisseur to ride a Triumph. Any one with some cash can walk into a hardly dealer and buy a new springer softtail. Wheres the fun in that. Create your own bike be an individual. Beef it up ride it hard.

indeviduality...its what makes us all different hahahahaha

Well that may be true, however I wouldnt call that a well constructed Girder front end, more like a bad hack job that some drunken Englishmen made in his basement. The real Springer front ends, the ones you are all considering for your Triumphs, were all perfected by H-D over continuous years of production. Many people hate a springer front end, I always loved them except for the ****** vibrations that they cause. I would recommend Paughco for a springer front end, they really have taken the lead.

web page

Hey backporch,
Don't you have an oil leak to fix? Get on it BOY before I whip your ******. And don't give me no backtalk either little ******.

A springer haiku:

'59 Triumph
came with a springer front end
heaven to see, rode hard.

Greybeard,

Cool bikes with the girder front ends.
Thank you for finding the pics.

"I wouldnt call that a well constructed Girder front end" Easy mud to sling, but I wouldn't call many suspensions of that timeframe "well constructed" or effective, or efficient. Hmmm, if I decide to put a Leverarm suspension on my bike because it looks cool or functions better, does that mean I'm trying to turn my bike into a Beemer? And if the day should ever come when I decide to sell my bike, why shouldn't I slap a Hardley tag on the tank, then I can get some clueless schlepp to buy a "unique one of a kind" Hardley for 3 times what I bought it for...

Sorry guys. Been outta commission for a while. I broke my jaw in 5 places and had to have reconstructive surgery. Have to have my jaw wired shut for 6 weeks. Half way into now. Hating life a bit, but it'll get better. Thats what they told me anyways.

Now about the springer front end. I did drive down to see Ozzy at QPD. Very nice gentleman. Nows his stuff. Had his own Triumph dealership back in the forties and fifties. He has an awesome machine shop now. He can build a top-notch springer front-end for the Triumphs. It will cost you between $1500-$2000 depending on the width and length that you want. I just don't have the extra cash lying around for that just yet. So, thats about the jist of it. If anybody is interested, they should call Ozzy. His number is on his website. QDP.com He'll be able to hook you up.

Fryguy

My God Fry, what did you do to yourself?

I referee youth and adult Hockey leagues for extra money in my spare time. I was ref'ing an over-enthusiastic bunch of young adults about 3 1/2 weeks ago. I was dropping the puck at a face-off and WHAM! One young-adult took a leaping swing at the puck and missed but connected dead center under my jaw. Split it clean in half plus broke both the joints where the bottom jaw meets the skull. I looked like the Predator from the Predator movie. I have to have a 4 hour surgery to repair my jaw. Had to have a plate put in to keep all the pieces in place. Not a fun thing to go through. I don't recommend it for even the sickest of sadists.


Fryguy

Hi Paul,
That makes me cringe just reading about it.
And they reckon motorcycling is a dangerous sport ?
Hope the worst is over and you are feeling better.

Just curious, wonder why harley's get bashed so much here. Iv never had a harley guy, well at least one who knows anything about bikes bash my triumph.

I feel the same way Trash. I own both brands but my Triumph never gets bashed. I think its a lot of backlash towards the Harley Owner taken out on the bike. I don't like the Harley attitude, F*** the Factory, I say. Since I do own both brands, I have a Triumph Sticker on my truck, But you wouldn't catch me dead with a Harley sticker unless it was upside side. Like the Bikes, don't like most people who ride them. Just my two cents


Fryguy

Here's an example of a Triumph springer that I saw today. It's a classic. Triumph springer

John