 Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 97
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 97 |
My son just recently bought a house, an old one, like 1900. It has been worked on a number of times including prior to his purchase. The renovation was done by a licensed contractor.My son called me to come over and see why an outlet in the bedroom would not work. In fact it did work, only when using it with a fan or a light, it would only give a portion of the power to the original demand (the outlet) and send the balance to the ceiling light. When the fan was pluged in and the switch rotated thru the speeds the light on the ceiling would act as though it were on a dimmer switch only at a portion of the wattage. It tested 120 volts, my guess is the amperage is getting split and sent to the next destination. How would that happen??? I am not sure if the power comes to the outlet 1st then the light, or as in some older homes from the light to the plug. Its new wiring and we checked the light and plug and it all looke fine. Would a 3 wire prior to the 2 sources be the culprit?? I think its haunted!!!! This one has me scratching my head.
Larry
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Nothing is wrong. I'm thinking the rheostat in the fan is pulling amps and acting like a dimmer switch. Obviously the power for the light is being pulled off the outlet circuits. I would install a ceiling fan with a light kit. Most likely the culprit is the fan.
Congrats to your son, home ownership can be a wonderful thing.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,738
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,738 |
I would call a sparky. 
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 1
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 1 |
I would get an expert and also fire insurance.
Lighting and sockets are on seperate circuits over here, not sure on your regulations. if the socket is taken of the light circuit the size of the wireing is restricting the flow of current, Amps. either that or there is a bad connection in the circuit. either way this can lead to heat being generated in the wiring or at the connection, get it checked out asap please, and i would not use the socket till then.
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
|
|
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
WTF... did someone wire that up in series and not in parallel? Just the first thought that entered my mind... I mean a lot can happen over 100+ years. You never know, right?
Live to love, love to live.
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
WTF... did someone wire that up in series and not in parallel?...
+1
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
WTF... did someone wire that up in series and not in parallel? Just the first thought that entered my mind... I mean a lot can happen over 100+ years. You never know, right?
It is a little confusing from the description, but if the circuit is wired in series three things have to be in operation all at once. The switch must be on, a operational light bulb must be in the socket and an working appliance must be plugged in.
Another explanation could be that the outlet is a half switch, like some have in bedrooms and living rooms IE the light and a lamp come on when the wall switch in on.
Last edited by MACMC; 06/19/2011 9:09 AM.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Maybe the installer used the push in "pinch" connection on the outlet and jumped to the light from there? Older wiring doesn't necessarily follow current guidelines or standards. Those push in clamps in the outlets are notorious around our house for failing in odd ways and I wonder if you aren't experiencing a similar failure. I've rewired every outlet in my house using the screw posts for a secure tight fit. Find the proper breaker, turn it off and have a look at the suspect outlet.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
I would get an expert and also fire insurance.
Lighting and sockets are on seperate circuits over here, not sure on your regulations. if the socket is taken of the light circuit the size of the wireing is restricting the flow of current, Amps. either that or there is a bad connection in the circuit. either way this can lead to heat being generated in the wiring or at the connection, get it checked out asap please, and i would not use the socket till then.
Most older homes have a one "home run" circuit to a room with the exception of appliances and GFIs. For example, my home was built in the late 40s. The breaker box only has 16 breakers, but 8 of those are used for 220 service, so that leaves eight 120 breakers to run everything else in a 3 bedroom house with a living, kitchen, dining, bath rooms and huge basement. Older homes just don't have the service newer homes have.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Maybe the installer used the push in "pinch" connection on the outlet and jumped to the light from there? Older wiring doesn't necessarily follow current guidelines or standards. Those push in clamps in the outlets are notorious around our house for failing in odd ways and I wonder if you aren't experiencing a similar failure. I've rewired every outlet in my house using the screw posts for a secure tight fit. Find the proper breaker, turn it off and have a look at the suspect outlet.
Good advice! Also, most older homes have metal boxes so it's not a bad idea to rap the duplexes and switches with electrical tape.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
I would call a sparky.
+1
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 242 |
someone broke a neutral
the outlet is wired in series to the light
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 97
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 97 |
I think I may have it. My father inlaw is a retired electrical engineer. Being fathers day my wife called him to wish him the best. The only reason I did not confer with him first is he is 83 and suffering from dementia. On a good day he only tells me things twice, on a bad day its all the time. I dont think he suffers that much but the rest of us have to deal with it. But anyway, he was having a good day today and was relatively sharp. He said it probably has to do with the power source and where it is originating and the switch wiring. The switch should always be wired with both black wires and the whites continue the run, except in the middle of a run, and thats where the old house and old wiring comes in. What I have been able to read up on, and what he has brought to my attention both point to the switch wiring. The switcth and ceiling light will be furnished with power from another source if need be. We will first disconect the ceiling light and make the run an uninterupted source to the plug and go from there. Thanks for the input. I'll let you know if the house burns down. Really, I will call an electrician on my buck if its not something simple, after all its been like this for a while and really does not pose a threat but only an inconvenience. Thanks again
Larry
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
Quote:
I'll let you know if the house burns down.
If it does, don't use the pictures in this thread
http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...page=0&vc=1
They're kinda famous on here 
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
My first thought was that they were wired in series, but I know nothing about US wiring systems and regulations. Going by your descriptions, if I was to do an inspection and test to UK regulations (part of my day job BTW), I would have no hesitation in condemning your wiring and insisting on at least a partial re-wire. I'm not trying to worry you, just pointing out the differences.
MACMC seems to know what he's talking about, so between him and your father-in-law you'll probably get it sorted IMO. If not, call in a sparky
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
|
|
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
The light and outlet are wired in series.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
1, turn the power off 2. open the switch, assuming it's single pole ( it only has 2 connections) 3.in the switch box there should be 2 black wires and 2 white wires and possibly 2 bare copper ground wires. 4. connect the black wires to the switch, connect all white wires together using a wire nut, twist the copper ground wires tightly together and connect one ground wire to the green switch ground connection. 4.put the switch back in the wall and turn on the power. FYI, a light can pulled off any duplex outlet regardless of where it is in the run. If it is in the middle of the run you will find 3 of each black, white and copper wires in the box. If at the end on the run only 2 of each. Just make sure the blacks are all connected to the copper colored screw side of the outlet and whites to the silver side. (coppers to the green if you have them) Good luck 
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 75
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 75 |
Hi Larry,
I don't want to sound like a scare monger however, if the fan you are plugging in works OK on in other areas of the house its an electrical fault in the wiring between the socket outlet an the light.
My strong advice is stop using the circuit immediatley. Disconnect the circuit at the fuse box and have it checked by an electrician.
Last edited by Buckers; 06/20/2011 3:36 PM.
Softens your hands while you do the dishes - You're soaking in it!!!!
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 97
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 97 |
I have to determine the source of the power, the switch only has one wire coming in (white,black grnd). The white and black are connected to the silver and gold screws. This I know is wrong. I think the source comes from a second wall plug behind the bed, this one I have not checked yet.I'll get it figured out.Thanks again, and I can assure the outlet is not being used.
Larry
|
|
|
Re: Household electrical malfunction has me stumped
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
|
|
New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
If there is only 1 set of wires coming into the switch box check the light box, there is probably 2 sets of wires, connect the whites to the light and wire nut the blacks together. That way the power goes to the switch before the light. That way if you ever have to work on the light just turn the wall switch off, you won't have to power down the whole room.
When I was an "electrician" it was customary in this situation to wrap the ends of the white wire in the switch box going to the light with black tape, because essentially it's a black wire.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
|
|
|
|
|
