 Running on one cyclinder
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Limped home today after bike started running on one cyclinder. Pulled both plugs and the left one is wet. I swapped plug wires and the bike won't start. Swapped them back to normal positions, and it fires up, but still only one cylinder. Is it the igniter or the coil? I ohmed out both coils, but they read the same. Any way to get my coils tested?
I'm afraid to go to the dealer to see how much an igniter costs. Probably 3 arms and 2 legs.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Derek,
Maybe the plug wire is bad and the left plug was fouled. Swapping the wires wouldn't help because the bad wire would fire the good plug and the good wire was trying to fire the wet fouled plug. Just a though. Did you Ohm out the plug wires? should be about 5K.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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I did change plugs when I got home and found the left one was wet, so when I tried starting it both plugs were dry.
Yeah, that was my other thought, plug wires. Both ohmed the same though. I was going to order plug wires and coils from Brent, but then thought the igniter could be the problem.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Hi Derek,
I had that problem after running the dog out of Vera to show my friend on the Valkyrie that I could beat him.
Started cutting out on one cylinder. Made it home, thinking I was shorted out or pinched vent or crud in the carb. My right plug was wet. After a bunch of carb cleaning and work, I figured out the right carb float bowl was letting in too much fuel. I am still working it back to correct position. I've worked 14 days straight and haven't had time to finish adjusting float. It's not easy, removing the bowl, making a slight bend on the tab and seeing 3/8" difference. I will hopefully finish today.
Your problem does sound to me like an electrical issue, and the wet plug came from unburned fuel due to lack of ignition. But your left cylinder may have been flooded when you swapped wires, you think?
Ride Safe,
Dennis
Triumph, it's how I live and what I ride.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,320
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Posts: 1,320 |
Derek, pull all the connectors (3) off the coil, and then take a multi-meter and measure the resistance across the front two posts (input side), you should get a resistance of 0.6 ohms. I'm guessing if one reads high, than that coil is where the prob is. Good luck!
Michael D. Rodriguez
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Haven't had a chance to look at the bike since I've been sick the last couple of days. I did measure the resistance of the coils the other day like you said, and got 0.5 ohms for both of them. I haven't checked the fuel level in the float bowls, even though I drained them. Didn't think of that one.
I sure hope it isn't the igniter box. I just wonder why it wouldn't start when swapping the ends of the plug wires, when at least I get it to start on one cyclinder when the wires are in their normal position.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Derek,
Dinqua mentioned long ago that, "A defective coil is pretty hard to detect without a nice electronic "ringer". A regular ohmmeter may work with certain problems, but a ringer will actually check the conductivity and effectiveness of a coil under a loaded condition. An ohmmeter can tell you if it's just open or shorted though, not an intermittent state as others are reporting."
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Some words of wisdom from Greybeard, Quote:
A really cheap neon type timing light will tell you if it is in the electrics. Hook it up , tape bungee or somehow place the light so you can see it, and take a look when the engine starts missing. If you still have a nice steady flash and the brightness doesn’t change, the spark is fine. If it gets a little brighter, the sparkplug is shorting or fouling. Try this on both sides because Triumph uses 2 coils.
If it’s a fuel flow problem, the bike will run fine until the carbs run low on fuel, and it will run fine again for a while if you slow way down, coast or stop long enough for the float bowls to refill. When it first starts having problems, a little bit of choke will usually help for a while.
Symptoms of a sick coil will vary. If the insulation is breaking down when the coil gets hot, you will be able to see it right away with the timing light trick I described earlier. Same thing if the high voltage wire is breaking down and arcing to ground.
If the coil is delivering a weak spark, you can spot that by putting the wire on a sparkplug that is lying loose on the engine so that it is decently grounded. Crank the engine over and watch the spark. Especially with the reduced voltage from cranking the starter, a weak coil will deliver a puny yellowish spark.
Symptoms of a weak spark are pretty consistant. At higher speeds, the iron core of the coil will have less time to reach magnetic saturation between sparks, so the spark will get weaker with speed. Also, a poor spark has a harder time jumping the plug gap through a more dense mixture. So, wide throttle openings under a heavy load will cause the spark to miss. Back in the old days when they actually cleaned and tested spark plugs, the test was to hook it up to a coil connected to a 60 Hz source. The plug was screwed into a pressure chamber and the pressure was increased to about 150 - 160 PSI to see if the plug would still spark under pressure. Yes, that’s roughly equal to around 10.5:1 - 11:1 compression.
In the case of a failing coil or other ignition problem, the symptoms will be tied to operating conditions and/or temperature. If it is fuel flow, it will be tied to running time/fuel usage.
Also, that valve thing in the tank vent line seems to be a 1 way or maybe 1 1/2 way valve. It is there to keep vapors from escaping when the tank warms up,and the bike isn’t running and let air in as fuel is used. The 1/2 part is that it may have a pressure relief mode that will vent the tank if the pressure builds up too high. Since I have the CA vapor recovery system, I don’t have one to play with. It is worth the little time it takes to yank the thing to see if your problems go away, because they have been known to stick.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Yeah, I know that things like coils are often tied to temperature. When cold they can work fine, but when they heat up the resistance breaks down and they fail. IME usually it's a rise in temperature of the coil gets you an increase in the resistance when it starts to fail.
I'll see if I can't find one of those neon light testers and do a road check. When I limped home the other day, it ran fine for 10 miles after I left the house, but then started cutting out on one cylinder intermittently until it finally ran on just one cylinder constantly for about the last 8 miles back home.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 30 |
Hello,
to test the coils, you have to switch both the spark plug wire and the two wires on the opposite end, you still want to to fire at the right time right? otherwise i think your firing on the exhaust stroke.
if doing this causes it to fire the opposite cylinder its likely the ignition control unit is bad. i found out that by applying a heat gun to my ignition control unit, it would fire both cylinders, but when it was cold, it would fire only one.
good luck. I called los angeles triumph and they said it was $700 for the ignition control unit (igniter).
FYI: part number T1291100
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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Posts: 30 |
I dont know who i talked to last time at los angeles triumph, but I called two dealers again this morning.
Orange County, CA Triumph 533.90
Los Angeles Triumph 544.80
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Finally got rid of my sinus headaches enough to do some more troubleshooting. Swapped wires coming into the coils, plus the spark plug wires, and it's still only firing on the right cyclinder. Anything else I can check?
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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More troubleshooting today. Pulled plug on left side(the cyclinder that isn't running), and got no spark when holding it near the dcylinder head. Did the right side and I get a nice blue spark. So it's definitely an electrical problem where I'm not getting a spark on the left cyclinder.
Tried to check the voltage coming into the coil with my multimeter by putting the positive/red lead from the multimeter in the positive incoming wire at the coil, and holding the negative/black lead to a frame ground, but got no reading on the multimeter. Checked the right side and got the same result. Isn't it possible to get a 12 VDC voltage reading going from the coil leads by cranking the engine over while doing the above with a mutlimeter?
Anything else I can do?
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Swap out the ignitor with a friends ignitor and see if that does the trick. Not too much more to check out. New spark plugs. The coils check out, what's left is the ignition pickup coil and the ignitor. Doubt it is the Hals device. Try unplugging the ignitor and applying some of that non conductive grease. Dangit if I can think of the name of it. Perhaps a pin within the ignitor's plug is not right? Long shot but who knows?
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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I wish I could swap it out with a good igniter, but this is Tucson we're talking about. The closest owner of an America or Speedmaster that I know is Becky in Flagstaff which is a good 5 hour drive from here.
Yeah, I've pulled the igniter plug to have a look and didn't see anything out of sort, and I put a dab of dielectric grease in for good measure.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Maybe the wiring leading to the ignitor and coil? See if you can trace the wiring path...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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All the wiring from the igniter to the coil is wrapped up good in the wiring harness, but I just now ohmed it out for S&G and both wires to both coils read continuity, so it's likely not that.
I just hate forking out $550 or so for a new igniter unless I'm absolutely positively 100% sure it's going to fix it. Because as you all know, just about every motorcycle dealer doesn't take returns on electrical parts.
Anybody up north who's bike is still in winter hibernation want to send me their igniter so I can make sure that's the problem? I'd pay postage both ways plus $25 for your trouble.
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 Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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Posts: 21 |
This is a late reply to a pretty old post, but I recently encountered the same problem. My bike is an '02, but it is outside the range of bikes covered in the bulletin that was mentioned in another post. My local dealer pulled an igniter off a new bike and ran it on mine. I haven't picked it up yet, but he said he rode over half an hour with no problems. The best part is Triumph is going to give them a warranty credit on it and it will only cost me about $50 labor.  I expected to shell out about $600, so that leaves me about $550 to spend with Brent!! 
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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When I called my dealer about my exploded air box, He called me back and said Triumph OK'd warranty'ing the box, and labor. He also told me they'd also do a igniter upgrade(although mine seems fine). Maybe they're finally acknowledging this problem???
Charlie
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Does that mean there is a recall on the igniters?
Soren
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Charlie, whick dealer did you call? What years does this cover?
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Guys, I had a similar problem this evening on my 05 SM. I started up the bike and it ran fine, then it started running on the right cylinder only (very weak power and felt like I was running into reserve ... although I had a full tank) for about a mile or so until the left cylinder kicked in again (and got me home). Any ideas would be appreciated 
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 582
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I had the same problem after hitting the rev limiter I reved & left off a few times & it kicked back in.
"Got the wind in my face the road goes on for miles...."
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Part 2,
After last night's episode (see post above) it did it again today but for only around 3 seconds and the left cylinder kicked in again.
Dirty fuel perhaps (but would that affect only one cylinder?)?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Posts: 999
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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i found mine running on one cylinder just after startup and still on the kickstand because the right carb was getting no gas. i flipped her to reserve and the problem cleared. the only other time i had an issue like this was when i knocked a plug wire off the coil. it looked and felt seated but after removing and reseating the wire she was fine.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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My bad igniter started as an intemittent problem one day(running on one cyclinder), and the very next day gave up for good and ran on one cylinder all the time. Luckily you're still under warranty, so I'd take it to the dealer if I were you.
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Derek,
It seems to have settled down following the 3 second glitch on Sunday (the 2nd time).
I'm just wondering if it was the begining of the end of the igniter unit or if it was just a fuel glitch.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
would that affect only one cylinder?)?
If the crud was only in one carb it would...
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
If the crud was only in one carb it would...
Phil,
That's what it seems to have been, thanks. It has been running fine again the since the last (3 second) glitch on Sunday. Hopefully it will stay that way. 
Derek,
I'll bear in mind what you said about the igniter unit, should it crop up again.
Thanks.
Gurdy,
I do actually think I had hit the rev limiter just before the first time it did it.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Episode 3. It did it again last night.  It ran fine for a week following last weekend's episodes and started again last night on my way out. When I started her up again to return home, she was fine again for half a mile and then the problem reappeared all the way home, without the left cylinder kicking in this time. I have been running on the same tank of fuel since the beginning as I have only been riding short distances every day (I still have a "tricky" ankle). Like I said on the "Gas Problems" thread, I'm not mechanically knowleadgable enough to start messing around so it looks like a visit to the dealer's is on the cards.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Sunday night. Please forgive the running commentary but this is getting to be a joke. I've just come back from a 30 mile ride where she started up and ran perfectly (after limping home on one cylinder last night). It looks like I have acquired a Saturday night mystery (2 in a row now).
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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After hearing everyone else's stories, I'd be the coils...
Brent, where's those aftermarket ones?!?
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
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Big Bore
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How about changing the plugs and see what happens?
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Phil, You could be right, I'll change the spark plugs tomorrow (actually today already here) and see if that changes my future stress levels. Any idea if our spark plugs are a common type or will I need to go all the way to the dealers or on an expedition to find them?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Posts: 9,223 |
NGK DPR8EA-9 should be available at any parts store...
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Thank you!
I'll keep you all posted.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,240
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Sounds so familiar, although mine wasn't hitting on just one cylinder - mine would be fine and then just suddenly die. Would go weeks, maybe hundreds of miles before happening again (sometimes thousands), but at times would happen several times in a single short ride. Always started right back up, often without even coming to a stop.
Problem just went away....can't remember the last time, now.
Thought it was fuel at first, but now I know it was electrical. But what, I don't know.
Keith
Houston
Ridin'Texas
'04 Speedmaster
AI removed, Pingle, UNI Filter, 1 shim, straight-through slash-cut TORs, Stage 1 DynaJet, 140 mains, 3 turns, 16/42 final drive, 115K
2020 T120 Black
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 58
Member
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Member
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I had this problem on my VTX and it turned out to be the ground. Check mounting to be sure not painted over. This was my problem once I cleaned etc the cylinder came to life.....just a thought
May You Be An Hour In Heaven Before The Devil Knows Your Dead!
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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After changing the plugs I'm still having the same problem. I run for a short while and then the one (left) cylinder stops running. It seems that it is temperature related because when the bike cools down altogether she starts up and runs fine again for a short while. I am apparently replicating Derek's (Salmaglie) problem. I also tested the spark plug cable (left cylinder when in problematic phase) and it doesn't give out a spark. Moe's post (above) quoting Greybeard's words of wisdom seems to be correct: Quote In the case of a failing coil or other ignition problem, the symptoms will be tied to operating conditions and/or temperature. Unquote I'm taking the bike in to the dealers on Monday.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Running on one cyclinder
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Loquacious
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Hope they can solve this problem. Often if they can't duplicate the problem, they'll hand you the keys and say the bike is running fine. So sometimes you have to keep after them until they fix it. In their defense though, it is tough to troubleshoot a problem when you can't duplicate the symptoms. If you have a good dealer, I'd press them for a new igniter box.
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