Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Electric Bikes -- What will it take.

I put this in the lounge section because it's not about a specific bike... just an attempt to start a conversation. If it belongs somewhere else... well.. sorry. Please move it for me. Thanks.

This may be a bit rambling... sorry, it's how I roll.

So... the topic of electric bikes seems to be polarizing (pun intended... deal with it ). Some people are all for them, some people are completely opposed. What are your opinions? What would it take for you to consider an electric bike? Are they "ready for prime time"? If no, why not?.
Most of the major car companies are offering a fully electric car and the technology is really improving. It's happening a little more slowly for bikes, but the Brammo Empulse promises 100mph and 100 miles per charge. That ain't bad. Personally, I'm excited about the advances in the technology (what can I say, I'm a geek ), but in my opinion, none of these vehicles will take off. The reason for this is that these vehicles are only suited at this point for commuting. They'll take you back and forth to work, and shopping, but then you gotta recharge them. There's an effort by some companies (I used to work for one) to create an infrastructure of charging stations. In theory, that would help to change the "commuter only" thing, but on a long trip, nobody is going to want to park for 3 or more hours a few times a day to do something they can do at the gas pump in 10 minutes (gas prices would have to get DAYUM high to justify that). Most of us would be OK with a commuter car (or bike) to tell the truth... but we will never admit that to ourselves. I don't need an SUV. A car is just fine... but I have an SUV for that twice or three times a year that I drive the fam to the coast and need the extra space for the dog. Same kinda thing. I could probably be perfectly happy with a commuter bike... but I MIGHT need the extra range once or twice a year... so I won't get one.

My solution is this (and why haven't I heard anyone talking about it??): re-usable, quick-change, standard-sized fuel cells. No, not hydrogen cells specifically... They could be batteries, fluid cells, or any other way of storing energy. With that, you could pull into a station, swap your cell for another in 5 minutes, and be on your way. Range is no longer an issue. Standardization would obviously be the key, but it would be EASY. I thought of this as I was in Home Depot today. They have a self serve propane tank exchange. Yeah, it's expensive, but only because your paying for convenience. Propane tanks have a standard connector. Doesn't matter what BBQ grill or other propane appliance you have... one tank fits all (ok, there ARE two thread sizes, but that's why the tanks have threads on the inside and outside of the connector). I don't know... maybe someone is already working on this kind of thing for vehicles, but I haven't heard about it.

Anyway... that's my long and rambling stream of consciousness. What are your thoughts on the whole electric bike (or car) thing in general?

BTW... I tried to stay away from the topics of pollution and the relatively finite nature of petroleum as those topics often go hand in hand with politics. Please try to do the same... Thanks.

Lance

I have sometimes thought about going electric, but they are simply unsuitable for me due to the mileage I do on a regular basis.

In my last job, 60-100 miles a day I considered local and would often have to do more, whereas my new job I am at present doing about 115 miles a day. That should come down when the training is finished and I am let loose on the public, but electric would still be no good for me.

Privately, the only journey that an electric vechicle would have the range for is my weekly trip to the market, but that can be walked, as I do when the snow is on the ground.

If they could get the range to about 200 miles AND be able to maintain a decent speed, then they might be a viable option for me

While having breakfast the other day at motor cyclist friendly Toymakers cafe, I started browsing "Build your own electric motorcycle"
available at that link as a free e book download. It seemed to supply enough info to build a bike from the ground up -
how to put together frames and suspensions and so on.



Forgive what may be a slight lean toward politics, but bringing electric transport to the masses is meeting some resistance .

I'll be 54 years of age next month. In the third grade of elementary school(1965) for a project I did a design report where in theory I built a battery powered car with a small 1hp Briggs engine to operate the alternator to recharge the batteries once the batteries could no longer power the vehicle.
Today that idea, or something very similar is called a Hybrid. Hmmm, guess I missed my calling. My problem as a young man was I liked to get high and chase blonde's on motorcycles. Oh well, such is life.

To answer your question, I would not be opposed to an electric car or motorcycle. If fact I like the idea because I'm tired of giving my money to people who want to kill me and the freedoms I cherish.

Two issues I see.One will there be in my lifetime an electric vehicle that will carry me 700-800 miles between charges?
Two. If that vehicle is built in my lifetime will the power companies " that will eventually be controlled by Exxon etc"
raise the cost of a kilowatt to match $5.00 gallon gasoline.

I suppose I would be willing to pay those type of charges if I no longer had to give my money to the middle east.

I like the way an electric bike sounds with a good set of Bubs on it , "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

Back in the late 70's there was an experimental Beechcraft with a 150 HP electric motor powered by a fuel cell. The fuel tanks were split by rubber diaphragms with hydrogen peroxide on the top side. This was run through the fuel cell and the hydrogen peroxide/lithium pumped from there to the lower side of the tanks. The spent "fuel" could be drained off as fresh H2O2 was pumped in and the lithium rods changed out in about the same time as it would take to fill up with avgas. You could actually be on your again a little sooner because hot starts can be a problem with the original O-360 engine. At cruising altitude, the electric motor still delivers full power, making performance better than the gas burning engine. On top of all that, the motor far outlasted the 2000 hour TBO of the gas engine and the lithium can be extracted from the H2O2, so the "spent" fuel can be recycled.

Get me one that can handle my commute (50 mile RT) with charge to spare, charge overnight on 120v, outrun traffic on the freeway, accelerate 0-60 in under 4 seconds for less than $10,000, and I'm on it.

Interesting post, Ed. Can't say I understand it much but find it interesting anyway. I heard recently that a lithium/H2O combination is extremely volatile so maybe lithium/H2O2 releases even more energy? Just thinking out loud as I try to wrap my head around this stuff.

Even though the liquid "fuel" weighs about 2 lb/gallon more than avgas, the whole conversion with full tanks, motor and fuel cell, the airplane weighed about the same as when stock. I used to have a Gruman Tiger with a similar engine and it was all out of power at around 13000 ft. With this setup, you would still have full power all the way out of the atmosphere.

I think the electric bike idea breaking through is similar to the honda bikes first popping up in the US. Everyone laughs at them from a distance, and then their neighbor gets one, then a relative gets one, and 50 years later "jap bikes" are accepted by the average joe as the norm. But still laughed at by the old guys.

Of course now-a-days we're bombarded by new technology every other week so the acceptance might be a lot easier than it was for honda back then. You cant get an old guy on a crotch rocket, but you can sell him the latest cellphone, so thats progress.

The idea of the exchange battery packs is a good one and I can see this coming into play as demand for it increases.
Technology is moving very fast and prices will fall. 8 years ago I paid $100 for a 1 gig memory card for a digital camera , the other day I picked up a 4 gig card for $29.99

I like the idea of converting an existing motorcycle to an electric bike and with the help of my son who is an electrician. I think I might start collecting bits.
The article Bucky posted about build your own motorcyle is just great and I can't say thanks enough for placing this imformation in front of me. I solved the rubix cube once by following instructions when alot of people just gave up so I reckon I can build an electric bike

Hey, I'm still getting used to this metric thing.

Seriously, if it's affordable, convenient and is approaching mainstream, I'm in and have no hangups about losing the sound and feel of a gasoline engine. It's about "two wheels" - not "two cylinders".

I don't mind the idea of electric vehicles but if we had to give up the internal combustion engine, dang... I would sure miss it for the sound and feel on my bike at least.

1. I don't think anyone is suggesting getting rid of all internal combustion engine motorcycles. I wouldn't mind an electric bike or trike for commuting, but I still want my ICE powered bike(s).

2. Internal combustion engines will go away eventually. It's only a matter of time, but perhaps no one current on this site will be alive to see it. It's gonna happen. Or at least for the mainstream populace. There will always be some around but as oil reserves get deleted eventually it will be too expensive for most people to run an ICE daily. ICE will be relegated to a hobby.

Will that be called an Icicle ?

The other scenario is biodiesel, since we can make it from just about anything, but the oil companies' lobbyists will fight mainstream adoption tooth and nail as long as there's a spoonful of crude in the ground.

Electric seems so primitive. This is the 21st century, I thought we would be flying around like the Jetsons by now.