 not firing
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223 |
my bike is a 2002 ba with procom , just checked battery showing 11.97 at battery, and 11.34 at both coils been trying to start it so battery bit low ,got it on trickle charge and its charging up ok , will the procom unit need more than 12 volt to fire or should i see a weak spark,
lowered 2 in stretched front ,widened front forks, aubergine black pearl paint 40 ford rear light standard exhaust all baffels removed, pods, 155 main, 45 pilot, thruxton needle, 16 tooth sprocket procom ignitor set to no 5
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
|
|
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
So which of these posts do you want to keep?
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223 |
lowered 2 in stretched front ,widened front forks, aubergine black pearl paint 40 ford rear light standard exhaust all baffels removed, pods, 155 main, 45 pilot, thruxton needle, 16 tooth sprocket procom ignitor set to no 5
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
what do you mean keep
You've got two posts in the same forum with the same subject, that's what he means 
As for the "not firing" part: You have a number of safety switches to overcome, sidestand is one, neutral is another, and the kill switch at the right grip; any could keep the plugs from sparking.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
In your other post you stated that you have 12.30 volts on all 4 connections on the 2 coils. Sounds like your coils aren't finding a ground. The coils find their ground through the CDI unit then to one of the safety devices such as the neutral switch, sidestand switch or clutch switch. Check these switches, especially the sidestand one. Check the connections to them closely.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 83
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 83 |
Quote:
So which of these posts do you want to keep?
This one..
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223 |
i said it was 12 50 at battery terminals and 11.68 at both terminals on the coils , are the coils supposed to be live at both terminal ? thanks kevin
lowered 2 in stretched front ,widened front forks, aubergine black pearl paint 40 ford rear light standard exhaust all baffels removed, pods, 155 main, 45 pilot, thruxton needle, 16 tooth sprocket procom ignitor set to no 5
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
I don't think they should be live at both coil terminals. I would unplug both coil primary leads and with the key on check to see which one is live. The other grounds through the CDI unit to one of the safety devices. I don't know if the CDI unit controls the primary current by turning the input voltage on and off to generate a spark or if it turns the ground side on and off to generate spark. Since your CDI unit is a Procom unit from your email, I would try attaching a ground jumper lead directly to the coil primary ground leads and see if that starts your bike up.
Anybody else feel like commenting about how the coils are grounded?
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
If this screen capture is to be believed the coils ground side runs through the carb heaters and then on to the ground. That common joint between them runs to pin 1 of the alarm connector.  I still think simplest is best, check all three safety switches and the headlight relay under the tank before the hunt gets too complicated.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
You know what Ed, when I originally looked at the print, I was thinking just like you that the grounds went through the carb vent valve/heaters and not through the CDI unit but I was confused because I wasn't sure what the Vent Valve actually did. Is it a solenoid, a simple set of contacts on a bimetal strip or a heating element and I was wondering why a coil ground circuit would be put in series with a load (vent valve). Wish I had my bike out to check to see which primary coil wire is live, the red one or the yellow black one from the CDI unit. Now I'm confused and won't be able to check for another week at least. I started to think that connector #2 on the CDI unit and #4 on the Carb thermostatic switch were positive making the circuit + instead of a ground. Hate that when I end up having more questions than answers.....oh well.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
This one really has me curious. Ed, you stated that the ground leads from the coils go through the carb heaters, then on to the battery. That other common joint from the coils meets at terminal 1 in the alarm circuit. If you look at the print for the starter circuit, it shows that terminal 1 for the alarm circuit is actually powered from terminal 2 going into the alarm circuit, which comes from the kill switch circuit. This lead goes up to the coils and appears to feed them along with numerous other components like the CDI unit at terminal 2 and the carb vent (which I assume is for California models only). It this wire is live, how could it be a part of the coil ground circuit?
Am I looking at this wrong? Does the ground for the coils go through the CDI or not? The description on how the coils work in the manual isn't that clear.
I wonder if Pieman is around. He programs these units and should know.
BTW, Kevin, does this bike have an alarm circuit installed?
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
This one really has me curious. Ed, you stated that the ground leads from the coils go through the carb heaters, then on to the battery. That other common joint from the coils meets at terminal 1 in the alarm circuit. If you look at the print for the starter circuit, it shows that terminal 1 for the alarm circuit is actually powered from terminal 2 going into the alarm circuit, which comes from the kill switch circuit. This lead goes up to the coils and appears to feed them along with numerous other components like the CDI unit at terminal 2 and the carb vent (which I assume is for California models only). It this wire is live, how could it be a part of the coil ground circuit?
Am I looking at this wrong? Does the ground for the coils go through the CDI or not? The description on how the coils work in the manual isn't that clear.
I wonder if Pieman is around. He programs these units and should know.
BTW, Kevin, does this bike have an alarm circuit installed?
I only took the screen shot from the manual and haven't taken the time to really trace the wiring harness to see if the junctions are set up as parallel lines that can be grounded to kill the circuit so I can't answer properly. That, and, there are known mistakes in the book so the schematic isn't necessarily 100% correct.
There's another post now that he checked the pickup coil gap, found it to be nil, reset it but no go. Might be that the pickup has been compromised OR there's still no discussion of checking the kill switch so that's a variable (and known to fail due to corrosion) that's still out there. Plus, that kill switch appears all over the place in the schematic...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223 |
hi all set airgap to 0.8m checked starter switch, listen dont think of popping the actual switch out of its houseing, took me an hour to get two small springs a tiny ballbearing, and copper connector all back together!, bypassed sidestand and clutch switches, may have a possible ignitor to swap out tuesday been intouch with procomm they say its ok for exchange definetly think its the ignitor its the only part i unharnessed and put back and got a single spark then nothing, im gutted all my bodywork is being painted, and ready for next week , been polishing everthing , oil change new tyre, all set mixed paint myself dark black/aubergine with red mettalic, looks black till sun hits it, now got to send ignitor to usa and wait , thought the pick up coil might be damaged as there was no gap at all , but local triumph stealer has got to order it,beats me how the gap could have moved those bolts are tight and i checked the gap about 600 miles ago! might run a warm bath and get some razors dataTOOL 3 ALARM BYPASSED BY A PLUG I LENT OFF OF DEALER
Last edited by 3spirit; 04/03/2011 1:14 PM.
lowered 2 in stretched front ,widened front forks, aubergine black pearl paint 40 ford rear light standard exhaust all baffels removed, pods, 155 main, 45 pilot, thruxton needle, 16 tooth sprocket procom ignitor set to no 5
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
I don't want to harass you but there's still no discussion of the kill switch here. It's an integral part of the ignition circuit and could easily be your problem if you haven't checked it out.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 223 |
hi had me procom swapped out on another bike works fine , put on new pick up coil, tested negative side of coil - by puting my live multimetre wire on live battery terminal and the earth on the brown and yellow negative wire on coil, it works when cranked sending a negative to the coil, BUT still no spark, checked starter switch ok , dont know what to do now?
lowered 2 in stretched front ,widened front forks, aubergine black pearl paint 40 ford rear light standard exhaust all baffels removed, pods, 155 main, 45 pilot, thruxton needle, 16 tooth sprocket procom ignitor set to no 5
|
|
|
Re: not firing
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
dataTOOL 3 ALARM BYPASSED BY A PLUG I LENT OFF OF DEALER
Not sure what you mean by this? Do you have an alarm or not?
I think you mentioned on another post that the bike ran for around 10 minutes then quit. Is that so? Fuses OK?
Really can't think of anything else. I think something is getting lost in the typing.
That is a much easier print to read Bucky. Thanks...saved it to my info file. 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
|
|
