 LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
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OP
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I am hoping Sandman can join in on this.
Last year I replaced all 4 turn signals with LEDs and also made them running lights. For the running lights 12v I used the tail light wire in the rear and I used little bulb (parking light?) in the headlight for the front. I added a LED flasher from superbright led. Everything worked great....except my LED turn signal indicator on my dash stopped working. I expected it to make them all flash in unison but no, it just doesn't light. i tried sandmans resistor trick too. No luck. Any thoughts? I want my green light back!
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Replace them with LEDs. Newbonneville.com or fasteddysports.com both have the same kits. LED idiot light kit If your run a tack or a clock theres a kit for that as well.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 853
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 853 |
recheck your wire splices....I had the same thing. Broke the splice when I ran the wire in the bars...
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Quote:
recheck your wire splices....I had the same thing. Broke the splice when I ran the wire in the bars...
My 4 turn indicators work fine. It's my green dash light that doesn't work.
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Replace them with LEDs. Newbonneville.com or fasteddysports.com both have the same kits.
LED idiot light kit
If your run a tack or a clock theres a kit for that as well.
I had already done that.
I ran the green LED light on my dash for 2 years before I did the LED turn signals.
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
you gotta replace-em with leds in the dash.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 298
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OP
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Quote:
....except my LED turn signal indicator on my dash stopped working.
My dash lights are LEDs
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Sandmans Web Stite suggests that the problem I shoul be having is that all the turn signals will flash in unison. That never happened. Instead I just have no LED dash light. I was thinking maybe the LED flasher unit might be causing this...
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
you gotta replace-em with leds in the dash.
He just finished saying he's done that.
James, is it possible the dash LED is fried?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Dunno.
I suppose anything is possible but it would have been quite a coincidence. It happened at the same time I put the LED signals in...was working before project, not working after the project.
I haven't ruled it out though. When I get home I will swap the green signal light with my oil pressure light, see what happens.
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
Quote:
Replace them with LEDs. Newbonneville.com or fasteddysports.com both have the same kits.
LED idiot light kit
If your run a tack or a clock theres a kit for that as well.
I had already done that.
I ran the green LED light on my dash for 2 years before I did the LED turn signals.
OK... safe to assume all other dash light are operational right?
* Check your relay. It may be clicking and making your lights flash but do you hear a buzz in the background or is it clean click? If not you could have a bad relay. Ive had those super bright relays go bad or get moist and buzz. After two of them and my dash light not working I switched to a Kuryakyn universal LED kit.
* Try removing your dash LED (the one that stopped working) and check the connection (those little wires can move or not make a good contact) ...
* While its out use a test light or meter to check for voltage at the socket while a turn signal is active. If this checks out OK then ...
* Try swapping it with a known working LED (regardless of color just to check). (LEDS don't go bad very often but its always a possibility) ...
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Yes, all other dash lights are operational.
That's a very logical order of trouble shooting.
I'll check it out this weekend.
Thanks!
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Re: LED Signals
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 853
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 853 |
That was the splice that broke...I forget if it was the power side or the ground side..the wires that go to the dash light
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Soooo, did some trouble shooting today.
1. Relay sounds fine
2. Swaped LED withworking Neutral light. Did not light up.
3. Checked voltage at dash wires. With left signal flashing, one lead alternates 11+/- and 8.5+/- volts and the other is 0 volts. With the right turn signal flashing, the oppositte lead shows 11+/- volts and 8.5+/- volts and o volts on the other....
So it is not the relay or bulb and we are getting power. Is that enough voltage for an LED?
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
Soooo, did some trouble shooting today.
1. Relay sounds fine
2. Swaped LED withworking Neutral light. Did not light up.
3. Checked voltage at dash wires. With left signal flashing, one lead alternates 11+/- and 8.5+/- volts and the other is 0 volts. With the right turn signal flashing, the oppositte lead shows 11+/- volts and 8.5+/- volts and o volts on the other....
So it is not the relay or bulb and we are getting power. Is that enough voltage for an LED?
Your voltage seems ok. The 11 volts is enough. Not sure about the 8.5 though. Id check mine but I don't have my meter with me.
PM Sandman and direct him to this thread, lets see if he knows.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 298
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Well when the signal flashes "on" the voltage goes to 11v. The 8,5 is between flashes. That seems normal, right?
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
Well when the signal flashes "on" the voltage goes to 11v. The 8,5 is between flashes. That seems normal, right?
When you put it that way Id say yes.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,362
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,362 |
Hey... I'm back from overseas... yay!
OK, you say the turn signal on the dash stopped working... do you mean that it DID work at first (after the modifications) then stopped later, or it never worked after the mods? I'm going to assume it never worked.
As an "LED bulb" it will already have a resistor built into it so it doesn't blow up on 12V. This means that it should read the 8.5V as close enough to 0V and the 11V as close enopugh to 12V, therefore there's enough difference for it to flash. My bet is that what you're missing is a good earth. The way the dash turn signal light is set up is to earth itself through the opposite turn signals... ie: if you turn on the left signals the left wire goes high & low and the right wire provides an earth through the lights on the right side of the bike. A standard bulb has a resistance close enough to zero to act as a normal wire, but as I mentioned earlier an "LED blub" will also have a resistor built into it. When you put an LED & resistor combination (the bike's turn signals)on the earth side of the dash light that can be enough to stop the dash light firing.
Further, LED's only work in one direction - they're just a special sort of diode which is like a valve for electricity. Unless your bulb has been specifically made to work in both directions you'll never get it to do what you want.
Try this:
Take the "LED bulb" out of the dash turn signal
Attach one end of a wire to the "left" wire in the socket, and the other end to one of the bulb's terminals.
With a second wire, attach the other of the bulb's terminals directly to the negative terminal of your battery.
Now turn on the ignition and switch on "left"... I bet the light flashes?
If so you've found your problem... insufficient earth, due to the built in resistors in your turn signal "bulbs". You'll need to modify the wiring to the dash light to add a third wire for a decent earth (there's an earth supplied to the tacho/clock socket), use a couple of regular diodes to connect the left & right wires together without them feeding back to each other, connect both the left & right sides to one terminal and your earth wire to the other terminal. It's a fix for a stupid problem that has been plaguing British vehicles since the 1960's or earlier, that Triumph used to save a few bucks.
There's details on my website in the "LED Console Lights" page.
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Thanks for the lesson and the advice. I will get back to you
-Jim
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
Just for the fun of it, reverse the polarity on the misbehaving light. My rear signal was wired backwards by the factory. Couldn't get the (polarity sensitive) LED replacement unit to fire until I finally figured that out.
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 298
Adjunct
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OP
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Quote:
Hey... I'm back from overseas... yay!
OK, you say the turn signal on the dash stopped working... do you mean that it DID work at first (after the modifications) then stopped later, or it never worked after the mods? I'm going to assume it never worked.
As an "LED bulb" it will already have a resistor built into it so it doesn't blow up on 12V. This means that it should read the 8.5V as close enough to 0V and the 11V as close enopugh to 12V, therefore there's enough difference for it to flash. My bet is that what you're missing is a good earth. The way the dash turn signal light is set up is to earth itself through the opposite turn signals... ie: if you turn on the left signals the left wire goes high & low and the right wire provides an earth through the lights on the right side of the bike. A standard bulb has a resistance close enough to zero to act as a normal wire, but as I mentioned earlier an "LED blub" will also have a resistor built into it. When you put an LED & resistor combination (the bike's turn signals)on the earth side of the dash light that can be enough to stop the dash light firing.
Further, LED's only work in one direction - they're just a special sort of diode which is like a valve for electricity. Unless your bulb has been specifically made to work in both directions you'll never get it to do what you want.
Try this:
Take the "LED bulb" out of the dash turn signal
Attach one end of a wire to the "left" wire in the socket, and the other end to one of the bulb's terminals.
With a second wire, attach the other of the bulb's terminals directly to the negative terminal of your battery.
Now turn on the ignition and switch on "left"... I bet the light flashes?
If so you've found your problem... insufficient earth, due to the built in resistors in your turn signal "bulbs". You'll need to modify the wiring to the dash light to add a third wire for a decent earth (there's an earth supplied to the tacho/clock socket), use a couple of regular diodes to connect the left & right wires together without them feeding back to each other, connect both the left & right sides to one terminal and your earth wire to the other terminal. It's a fix for a stupid problem that has been plaguing British vehicles since the 1960's or earlier, that Triumph used to save a few bucks.
There's details on my website in the "LED Console Lights" page.
Matt, you nailed it! 
I did what you said and the dash light flashes. I will wire it up with thediodes and should be good. Thanks!
An interesting side note...the dash LED does not always flash with the same brightness. More like Bright, dim, dimmer, bright, dim, dimmer etc...
I'll take it thogh. Thanks again
-Jim
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 1
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 1 |
Glad ya got it sorted,been following this cas I have a couple issues also.
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 75
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 75 |
The reason there are problems when switching to LED turn signals (or indicator lamps) in relation to the operation is because of how the indicator lamp is wired; This is simplified diagram of how original indicator lamp functioned:  The way the 'normal' idiot light works is: The main current flows through the incandescent turn signals (Whichever side is selected by switch) to ground; it also flows to a parallel circuit comprising (the indicator lamp (incandescent) in series with the opposite-side turn signals (incandescent) to ground The indicator lamp 'lights' because its resistance is much higher relatively (smaller wattage bulb) than the main turn signal bulb; so proportionately more voltage is dropped across that indicator lamp than the 'opposite' main signal lamp (actually front & rear lamps in parallel) in series with it ; so the indicator lights and the main turn signal lamps don't. Now - when you install LEDs, they have very high resistance compared to an incandescent lamp; and further, an LED is a current operated device - so when you connect them in series, it reduced the overall current through that leg of the chain and you have issues. This can also cause all four signals to flash with some devices. The solution is to do the diode mod for the indicator lamp to isolate the indicator lamp for each side and in it's own parallel current as opposed to series. (note that on the Twins the negative for the high beam lamp is actually Brown I believe) 
Last edited by DEcosse; 03/25/2011 1:57 PM.
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Quote:
I have 2 1N4006 diodes. Will those work?
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Re: LED Signals Update
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 75
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 75 |
Should be fine - nothing critical, as long as can handle the current - but even incandescent indicator lamp is only 3W or 250mA - LED indicator would only be 10-20mA
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