 Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457 |
Quote:
Years ago (early 1980's) guys were installing water injection systems in their cars and reporting a 10% - 20% increase in gas mileage.
What those systems did was use the combustion chamber heat to convert water to steam. That would utilize some of the wasted heat energy. Saw a story on TV about a 6 cycle engine. After the exhaust stroke, water is injected into the combustion chamber to get a steam powered stroke.
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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OP
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Quote:
The only way I see Hydrogen being viable (and greener) is if you generate the Hydrogen using Solar or Wind power. Any other way you are just transferring the source of the pollution from one location (cars tail pipe) to another (coal, oil power plant). Basically the same thing is true for an electric car.
Years ago (early 1980's) guys were installing water injection systems in their cars and reporting a 10% - 20% increase in gas mileage. When I lived in Anaheim, CA a couple of guys I worked with did this. Another co-worker had a early 60's Mustang that would run on Gasoline or Propane. He keep two 20 pound Propane tanks in the truck. He had a switch under the dash for switching from gas to propane (he could only switch with the engine off). It was a very simple system that allowed him to use either type of fuel.
Tom
I had an old Bell phone co. van that I bought used that ran off propane or gas and had a lever to switch over. Had a special carb that had a flap on top that sealed it off for the proppane and the propane tank was under the van.
The hydrogen is produced by the left over electrical power generated by the car running. Nothing extra or added just another electrical load like putting a big amp in the car.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
The process is called electrolysis and the amount of energy need to produce enough hydrogen to affect the effeminacy of an auto engine is far more than can be produced by the cars electrical system.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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OP
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I know Bill, was just saying what the guy I was talking to was saying. The Exxon Mobil commercial didn't say anything about where the power came from to create the hydrogen. The drawing looked like a car bomb to me. 2 big hydrogen tanks in the back of the vehicle. The guy I talked to had no tanks just the electrolysis system.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Correct! T Boone Pickens was pushing H decades ago before he got on the wind bandwagon. If I remember correctly the H was a by product of oil refining.
Interestingly I just read on AutoGreen that in states like California the electric miles of a Chev Volt cost more than the gasoline miles.
The only way to get off the Grid is walk or ride a bicycle.
Mr. Pickens is a P.T. Barnum of sorts. He don't care what will work he is just trying to get infront of the green wave to make some money. He knows this is an experimental phase, and he will jump ship to get in front of the next fad as well. He has made a fortune on all those nonturning wind mills. If you notice when you drive by only 4 or 5 out of a hundred of them will be turning.
Dont get me wrong I think innovation is always the key to the future, but dont use ole Pickens as a metering rod. He is more a fraude trying to get rich off of what ever he can whether it is effective or not.
The electric cars add a huge load to an already overloaded and antiquated electrical grid. Plus the electric plants already put more carbon emissions into the atmosphere than cars do. If you care.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I wonder what the results of a bunch of cars puffing steam out would be? would look like driving every day in the fog?
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
I like the diesel over electric idea like a train. A lincoln welder will run all day on 5 gallons of diesel. while producing a huge amount of electicity
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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OP
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
They have windmills here on top of the ridge of a mountain and they are always turning. They produce a lot of power too.I used to know how much was powered by them but no longer remember.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
we have huge wind farms here and its like windmill rouette to know wich ones will be turning you could make a gambleing game out of it.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,302
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,302 |
I agree, I can not remember the figures but the freight trains get incredible mileage considering the weight they haul.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,477
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,477 |
Quote:
The process is called electrolysis and the amount of energy need to produce enough hydrogen to affect the effeminacy of an auto engine is far more than can be produced by the cars electrical system.
I'm pretty certian you meant to say "Efficacy," didn't ya?
Or, are you making fun of all those hybrid girly cars out there? 
JB
"Long live the Duck Force!"
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
You catch on quick  (Though not necessarily the hybrids  )
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1
Second Wind
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Second Wind
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,393 Likes: 1 |
them things are a scam anyway. Hybrids and electric cars.
I have no faith in human perfectability. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active - not more happy - nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago.
Edgar Allan Poe
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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OP
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
There is another option, turbine power. The car that Chrysler experimented with would run on any flammable liquid. They used scotch and perfume and corn oil among other stuff. From what I have seen the only real problem were sluggish acceleration and finding alloys to withstand the high operating temps in 1963. Turbine Car vid
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
I'm pretty sure most all turbines are pretty thirsty engines, Ian.
I'd say the idea of an auxiliary diesel-powered Chevy Volt-like car with electric motors at the wheels and with some kind of regenerative-braking system involved, is just about at the limits of everyday feasibility at this point in time.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
They used scotch and perfume and corn oil among other stuff.
Sure hope that wasn't single malt scotch!!
Seriously though, that was a cool car. The Wiki article said it produced nitrogen oxides (NO) which is what killed the project. I wonder what kinda mileage they got from it... I suppose that would depend on what fuel was used. Personally, when I use scotch, I don't go very far!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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OP
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Who cares what the mileage was if it ran on anything combustible? Brew anything in your back yard and drive on it. Run around collecting used fryer oil and use that etc..
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 593
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 593 |
Quote:
They used scotch and perfume and corn oil among other stuff.
 
Now when the figure out how to have scotch come out the tail pipe I'll buy.
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Well, seein' as how your original posting here was about a guy who you met who "wants to get off The Grid", I'd say you have a very valid point there! Though, if we were talking about situations other than guys like that(read: "Lone Survivalists"?) and vehicles which would appeal to a broader market, then my above point would also be valid.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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OP
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I posted it here with scavenging fuel in mind.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Hydrogen
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
They used scotch and perfume and corn oil among other stuff.
Now when the figure out how to have scotch come out the tail pipe I'll buy.
Yeah!!!  I LIKE that idea!!!
Saaaaay, I wonder if that ever happens, if you could get a good single malt scotch out of a Thumper and a decent blend out of a multi-cylinder engine??? 
(...just brainstormin' here, you understand)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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