 WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I'm going to be putting a tankless water heater in my crawlspace and I have hard water (how hard remains to be seen or tested--taking a sample in to be tested tomorrow). Hard water and tankless WHs don't play well together. Been doing some reading online and there are those who say only salt-based water softeners work and all else is snake oil. Lots of people say they love their salt-free water softeners, but nobody seems to have any real science or testing to back it up. It's all just hearsay and marketing.
Does any body have any real first hand experience with this stuff? I'd really like to avoid the salt if at all possible.
I'm just glad the new furnace is straight-forward. Just have to make sure the efficiency rating is high enough to get the tax credit.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
You can use potassium instead of sodium, but it's about three times the cost; $15.00 for 50lbs vs $5.00 for salt chunks and less for rock salt.
I went back to sodium (chunks) after the potassium got too expensive, Don't really notice any difference.
Have R.O. for drinking water.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 22 |
I thought this was a triumph site not a home improvment advice line
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 457
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 457 |
Well he did warn you that it was way off topic...
...though this being a motoring forum, I initially read it as wide open throttle...
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Reverse osmosis filters work well enough, but it seems to me that they would have to be cleaned at regular intervals. I have often wondered where the salt goes in the regular kind. Only way out of the insides would be into the water, and I don't see any place for the lime and such to go.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Salt goes down the drain. The city of Santa Clarita, CA, has banned those water softeners as an environmental hazard. But those are Krazy Kalifornians... what do they know? 
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
I thought this was a triumph site not a home improvment advice line
Hey, newbie, this is THE LOUNGE. It's for general discussion within the bounds of the Acceptable Use Policy. I think the vast majority of people don't find water softeners political, religious or otherwise offensive. And having people here from all walks of life we have expertise on just about every subject besides motorcycles. No reason not to tap into that if possible.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
I thought this was a triumph site not a home improvment advice line
Hey, newbie, this is THE LOUNGE. It's for general discussion within the bounds of the Acceptable Use Policy. I think the vast majority of people don't find water softeners political, religious or otherwise offensive.
Well, I'm not so sure about that, John!
(...'cause it seems to me if God wanted you folks up there in Montana to have softer water, then He would've given you folks that stuff in the first place, right???!!!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 476
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 476 |
i have a water softener cuz i pump my own water (out in the country)and use salt, i just pump out the extra in my field. i don't think i would put one of these tankless waterheaters in the crawlspace. they get really hot and i have seen a few that go nuke!
If it isn't broke, I haven't messed with it.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
I don't like soft water it feels like the soap doesn't rinse off in the shower. I do find water softener discussion very offencive! 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I do find water softener discussion very offensive!
Well, in THAT CASE Ian, I'll just "wash my hands" of this whole thread then!!!
(...and I'm pretty sure Friar John will appreciate this TOO!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I can always count on you chuckleheads to be helpful.
I hate soft water too. I hate destroying an expensive water heater even more. If the voodoo-based non-salt, non-softening, anti-scale systems actually worked I'd be golden.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,466 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,466 Likes: 3 |
I gave up on Softeners. I've tried a $600 Kenmore, a $2000 Kinetico and a 3K+ Culligan. None worked more than a year. Minerals Rock. (just flush and drain the system regularly).
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I can always count on you chuckleheads to be helpful.
Sorry John. Yeah, I have to admit I wasn't much help in directin' any helpful answers your way about this whole soft water/heater thing here, was I?! 
(...but hey, if you might ALSO be kickin' around the idea of buildin' yourself an elevator in your house, I could probably be helpful in directin' ya to just the right guy to answer all THOSE questions for ya!!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
Quote:
I can always count on you chuckleheads to be helpful
I try.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
I thought this was a triumph site not a home improvment advice line
Heck, we even had a guy discuss planning to build his own elevator once.
Last edited by bigbill; 10/13/2010 9:58 PM.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Sometimes we tell jokes and talk about beer. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Beer
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
Sometimes we even poke fun at people who try and build their own elevators.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Sometimes we even poke fun at people who try and build their own elevators.
I wish I'd been around for that. It sounds like it was a lot of fun. Funny thing is, I live on a mountainside where my top floor is street level, then there's a middle floor and a bottom cellar. I've considered an elevator to get from floor to floor. The need's not there yet but someday I won't be able to get to my garden which is two flights down.
Oh, and I know nothing about water softeners! 
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 525
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 525 |
John, I was researching tankless water heaters recently, because my existing heater is almost 10 years old and close to the end of its life cycle. I have very hard water, and am also leery of switching to the tankless model because of the susceptibility to buildup. What I was told, is if you have hard water or softened water, you can still use the tankless model but following the maintenance schedule is critical. You have to flush the system every 6 months (more or less, depending on the model), and if you skip this with hard water you are asking for trouble. Thats what my research turned up, but you'll have to take it with a grain of salt.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
That's pretty much what I'm hearing. I dropped off a water sample today to be tested. We'll see just how hard my water is. I don't really have much choice at this point, I just want to see what I'm in for. I'm pretty much committed to putting a tankless in the crawlspace.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 657
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 657 |
Hey John, down our way we have hard water, just like this  and we use this type of softener 
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Yeah, a little maintenance every so often... that's a good way to go! I say this because no matter what kind of water ya got going, tankless water heaters are pretty fantastic! I had one back in the days of living in a cabin in the woods and LOVED IT!! From time to time I'd flush it with limescale cleaner and the thing never failed me! Just my 10 cents (inflation and all)!
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Greeeeeeeeeeat.  
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 457
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 457 |
Quote:
Minerals Rock.
WTF have i gotten myself into? i could care less about blatantly (especially when advertised as such) OT threads... but do i really have to put up with these puns? there's just no excuse for this. and FYI, if it comes down to it, yes, i'll play this silly game.
..in fact, what else have i got better to do???
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
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Joined: Aug 2007
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hey john i know this is the LOUNGE maybe you should get of the lounge and get out on ya bike.I dont find water softners political,religeous,offensive i just dont find them at all interesting on a motorcycle related site
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,728 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
hey john i know this is the LOUNGE maybe you should get of the lounge and get out on ya bike.I dont find water softners political,religeous,offensive i just dont find them at all interesting on a motorcycle related site
Then maybe you should only look at the technical, performance, miscellaneous, and other bikes sections. Think of it this way, if we were all sitting around a fire, or at a bar, do you think the conversation would ONLY be about bikes? I can tell you first hand that we talk about all kinds of stuff. I don't even see a need to label a thread as "off topic" while in the lounge, because there is no specific topic to get off of, unless someone threadjacks. Next time you see "OT" or "WOT" in the thread title, do yourself a favor and go look at how to diagnose an electrical problem instead.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
hey john i know this is the LOUNGE maybe you should get of the lounge and get out on ya bike.I dont find water softners political,religeous,offensive i just dont find them at all interesting on a motorcycle related site
Plenty of good info about the bikes here.
But it's a place to have fun too.
Lighten up and tell a Kiwi joke, they'll bring it right back at ya
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
hey john i know this is the LOUNGE maybe you should get of the lounge and get out on ya bike.I dont find water softners political,religeous,offensive i just dont find them at all interesting on a motorcycle related site
I rode my bike last weekend. But it's really none of your business how much I do or don't ride. I'm an adult with a career and a house. Right now I'm focused on the latter. I ride when I can but in Montana our riding season is coming rapidly to a close. The mornings are already below freezing.
If you prefer, if it really bugs you that much, I can make it so you can't even SEE the Lounge when you login, just all the other, completely bike-focused, forums. I can do that for you because I'm service-oriented and customer-focused. If I can make your experience here at BA.com better, I'm all for it. Just let me know.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
So back on topic, which is an off-topic topic, I was looking at my coffee pot this morning. I bought it a couple months ago. It hardly has any hard water deposits at all. I only fill it with water from a Britta filtered pitcher. So maybe my water isn't that hard and I can get away with a really kickass filtration system rather than a full-fledged water softener. Anyway, I should get the test results back within a week.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
Not to get off topic John, but I feel your pain. It has been in the mid 30s here in the morning too. My riding season is just about over too. By the way I wish I still had my tankless hot water. It used to run through my furnace and the hot water was unlimited.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
hey john i know this is the LOUNGE maybe you should get of the lounge and get out on ya bike.I dont find water softners political,religeous,offensive i just dont find them at all interesting on a motorcycle related site
Having a hard time fitting in are we! Well Steve, this may come as a shock to you but I do believe there are members here that don't find your comments interesting either (from what I've read, you understand). So what you could do instead of being here is get on YOUR bike and leave us in the peace and comfort of enjoying each other's company in the lounge.
Personally, I find tankless hot water heaters interesting and would love to get one mounted on my bike for camping trips and stuff. There... I made it all about motorcycles. Happy now?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
I met a guy from the UK a few years back that did just that Keith. He custom built a trike around a VW beetle engine and transaxle. He bought those new and fabricated the rest. He didn't cut up and old bug. The back had all he needed to live on the road including a shower with hot water. He wrapped copper tubing around the exhaust headers and pumped the water through them.. He had a homemade Earls front end with the same bolt pattern and wheel as the 2 rear drive wheels so the spare fit any wheel that could go flat. It was a really cool contraption. He stayed with my friend for a couple weeks before moving on. He was riding around the world. He seemed kind of nieve so we were thinking he might not make it through central and south America. I wonder from time to time what happened to him and if he made it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Well DANG , it's about time for that ubiquitous GROUP HUG .  And while we're sittin' around that campfire with our BRITA , COFFEE POT , and BEER , we could toss hunks of POTASSIUM and SODIUM in a pot of HARD WATER and make a heckuva pyrotechnic display , 'cause that's what K and Na does . And then we could sing KIWI KOWBOY songs all together and John can lead , 'cause he's got that 'lil yellow "a" thingy behind his name . ...... respect the "a". 
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I'm not trying to throw my weight around (I'm referring to the A, not my tremendous girth, um, er, stomach). But when poked, I poke back. 
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
We know you get cranky when that "winter" thing happens up there.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
John? cranky? I have never seen such a thing! 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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OP
"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I also get cranky when people constantly crap on my (somewhat serious) thread. Actually it's not the crapping (heck, Dwight and Ian do that on every thread on the site) it's someone telling me it doesn't belong when clearly there's no real reason that it doesn't. And I'm not even really cranky, I'm just not going to sit here and take it. Oh, now I've done it. Dwight and Ian are going to be upset. ::sigh::
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Re: WOT: Water Softeners
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,217 Likes: 61 |
Nice to know we are appreciated.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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