 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4 |
I've been riding for 25 years and this is my first Triumph - and I love it - when it starts. I'm looking for input on what the dealer service department told me - which I find hard to believe.
I bought the bike in May 2009 and promptly broke my arm (NON motorcycle related mishap). The bike sat for 6 weeks - brand new and unmoved. When I was able to ride - I did and the first season was great - better than great. The bike was stored in an underground garage and prepped for winter storage. Spring 2010 came and I was back on it with no problems until summer 2010. The bike doesn't start. Not what I expect from a bike with only 500 miles on it. The dealer tests the battery (which was cared for over the winter) and the result is - perfect battery. Charge was at about 65%. "How much have you ridden the bike?" I was asked. "At least every other week - weather and schedule permitting. At a minimum, I ride it to work every day possible - a 20 minute ride one way". The dealer tries to convince me that "the bike must be ridden more frequently to maintain a charge on the battery". I can't park it and go on a 3 week vacation without the battery going dead on a 2009 motorcycle I ask? The dealer finally concedes they will check the charging system next week. (Which they were supposed to do when I had it there for the "warranty scheduled service".
If you've stuck with me this far, maybe you can give me some input on what the dealer is saying. In my 25 years of ridding - and different motorcycles, I have never experienced this - and find it very hard to believe. I LOVE this bike - but cannot have this sort of unreliability (Wouldn't start after work last time.) Any input would be appreciated.
Going through these forums, it's great to see how much others enjoy their Triumphs. After buying and riding this bike, reading these forums, I can relate to the feelings noobs and long-time Triumph owners express in these forums.
Thanks,
Drew
2009 Speedmaster
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 609
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 609 |
Welcome to the Forum, Drew.
Re your starting problem: Yep, I also think the dealership should have checked the charging system when you had the bike in for your scheduled warranty service. However, here's something that may or may not help correct your starting problem....
A few years ago, after the original battery in 2002 BA finally gave up the ghost, I purchased a replacement from a local shop and retrieved it after they said they had given it its initial charge. After installing it myself, in relatively short order(about a week or so) I began to notice it not being able to hold a charge for more than a couple of days, and thought it might be defective. I occasionally would hook it up to my trickle charger which would keep it charged up for only a few days, but whenever I didn't keep it hooked up to that trickle charger, the battery would within a couple of days would lose enough current to make starting my bike impossible.(unless I rode it almost every day, that is)
And so, as a last resort before returning the battery and telling the shop that it was probably defective, I hooked it up to my other, larger and more powerful battery charger and gave it a good long strong charge.
I never again had a problem with it not holding a charge after that. I could let it sit for weeks, and my bike would start every time.
And so, my "theory" about this episode was(and least in my case) that unless a battery receives that good strong initial charge, and even if you constantly hook your trickle charger up to it, it's not enough of a current to fully have your battery "kick in" and work as it should.
(...but then again, I'm not any kind of electrical engineer, and so my "theory" could be all wet here)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988 |
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
At the charging rate for these bikes, you would have to ride for about ten hours (edjumacated guess) to get a full charge on the battery. And of course, every time you started it that would pull a significant amount from the battery so yes, a good initial charge is critical.
It takes much less time to recharge the starter loss from a fully charged battery than it does to charge a dead (or minimally) charged one.
Mine has however, sat for up to four months at times while I was incapacitated for one reason or another and started just fine without any maintenance charge. Of Course that could be partly due to the climate.
Put a full charge on the battery and realize that it will take approximately 20 minutes of riding to recoup the loss from starting.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
had a similar problem several years ago (a few other members did too,if i remember correctly )turned out to be loose and dirty electrical connections,specifically the grounds.take a few hours and clean up all the connections fuses etc, wee dab of dielectric grease here and there. if your thinking batt ,take it to crappy tire ,they have load testers that'll tell you if it is weak or good . welcome to the site BTW.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,467 Likes: 3 |
Now where else can you get such good info so quickly?  Oh, and when I first got here, I was also advised to tighten everything and use dielectric grease on all electrical connections. I did and haven't had a problem since. Welcome Drew.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 473
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 473 |
EFI
The computer is always 'ON' and will eventually drain the battery over time.
The battery in EFI bikes is a lot smaller than the carb bikes in size. I'm not sure about capacity.
Early EFI bikes (2009) had a code refresh nicknamed 'city tune' that would alter the minimum voltage to start the engine. The threshold for this was set too high, and would prevent the engine from starting.
Solution: Get your dealer to check for an updated flash for the ECU. Get a battery tender and wire in a pigtail. Hook it up the battery tender when not going to be used for a while. I do this on my 2010.
EDIT: This is NOT unique to Triumph's (other than the ECU flash).
HTH,
H.
Last edited by hyates; 10/02/2010 3:10 PM.
2010 Speedmaster Black/New England White
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204 |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the '09 a F.I. bike If so the parasitic drain on your bike is much larger than the carburated bikes. The ECU has to store more information plus diagnostics.....I installed a battery tender pigtail to my '08 Land Rover battery(which has alot of electronics) because i have a company car and barely drive the LR......Angelis
Last edited by angelis745; 10/02/2010 5:50 PM.
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
I park my bike every winter and no battery tender. I don't even winterize it because on the odd day here and there if it gets warm enough I take it out for a spin. I still have the stock battery from 04 and have never had it on a charger of any kind.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4 |
I'm very impressed by and thankful for all the responses so far. I just left for a few hours and came back to see all these posts. I appreciate the welcomes and input. It's nice to have some of this information before returning to the dealer. Has anyone ever needed to contact Triumph corporate customer service?
Since the bike is in mint condition (no corrosion on parts or the body - it's stored underground in a controlled environment and covered - not ridden in the rain), I trickle charged the battery over the winter and it worked for most of this season - I'm hoping the dealer will take some responsibility and the problem is finally resolved after the service. I love the bike - and out of warranty I would do work on it myself - but until then - my experience with service department and customer service from Triumph is an important factor to me.
Thanks again for the input - the encouragement not to get discouraged - and welcomes. All of that definitely adds to the plus side of buying a Triumph - it's nice to know there are great fellow Triumph owners and riders.
2009 Speedmaster
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Ya know Ian, I'm startin' to think it's more than just a coincidence that Ronald(69tri1) AND you are both runnin' the original batteries in your bikes after all these years, and that they're both still workin' strong, AND THAT you both live in Pennsylvania!  Hmmmm...Pennsylvania! Saaaay...THAT wouldn't happen to have been where Nikola Tesla was workin' on his experiments years ago, would IT?! AND if if was, then MAYBE you guys are still gettin' some kind'a "residual energy" from that???!!! (...'cause ol' buddy, I've NEVER had a battery last ME more than about 4 years out THIS way!!!!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,271 Likes: 17 |
Quote:
I've been riding for 25 years and this is my first Triumph - and I love it - when it starts. I'm looking for input on what the dealer service department told me - which I find hard to believe.
I bought the bike in May 2009 and promptly broke my arm (NON motorcycle related mishap). The bike sat for 6 weeks - brand new and unmoved. When I was able to ride - I did and the first season was great - better than great. The bike was stored in an underground garage and prepped for winter storage. Spring 2010 came and I was back on it with no problems until summer 2010. The bike doesn't start. Not what I expect from a bike with only 500 miles on it. The dealer tests the battery (which was cared for over the winter) and the result is - perfect battery. Charge was at about 65%. "How much have you ridden the bike?" I was asked. "At least every other week - weather and schedule permitting. At a minimum, I ride it to work every day possible - a 20 minute ride one way". The dealer tries to convince me that "the bike must be ridden more frequently to maintain a charge on the battery". I can't park it and go on a 3 week vacation without the battery going dead on a 2009 motorcycle I ask? The dealer finally concedes they will check the charging system next week. (Which they were supposed to do when I had it there for the "warranty scheduled service".
If you've stuck with me this far, maybe you can give me some input on what the dealer is saying. In my 25 years of ridding - and different motorcycles, I have never experienced this - and find it very hard to believe. I LOVE this bike - but cannot have this sort of unreliability (Wouldn't start after work last time.) Any input would be appreciated.
Going through these forums, it's great to see how much others enjoy their Triumphs. After buying and riding this bike, reading these forums, I can relate to the feelings noobs and long-time Triumph owners express in these forums.
Thanks,
Drew
I'm a bit confused here, which does not take much.
You say you rode the bike in 2009 and 2010 every chance you get to work 20 mins one way but the bike only has 500 miles on it?
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 728 Likes: 1
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 728 Likes: 1 |
Say Dwight, what kind of abuse are you putting those batteries through? Six years and counting for my original equipped battery. AmyLee went seven years before replacement. We are talking about TBA's, right?
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
2 years on the OEM, 4 years on the replacement, on my third battery now.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Hmmmm...ya know Bob, now that I think about it, I seem to recall a whole host of folks sayin' around here that they're gettin' a lot more than 4 years of life out o' their batteries! (...though if I'd have admitted that earlier, I couldn't have used that "Nikola Tesla" line I used above, huh?!)  I don't know. Maybe it's 'cause I have one of those clocks in my BA's console or somethin'?! Maybe that sucker is runnin' down my battery or somethin', though I have to admit that even though I have one o' those "pigtail" quick-release "Battery Tender" lines hooked up to my battery, I seldom plug it in. I think the battery I presently have in my BA is just shy of 4 years old now and it seems to be workin' pretty well at the moment, and so maybe I'll be a little more "lucky" this time. (...we'll see!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Now that you said it's working well you are gonna go out to a dead battery in the near future.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Now that you said it's working well you are gonna go out to a dead battery in the near future.
Yep! Five'll getcha ten, you're exactly right, Ian!!!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 331
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 331 |
Have left my 08 America for a month and has started no sweat. If the charge test comes up o.k get them to connect a ampmeter to the battery and see what the actual draw is at rest with everything off. That info should be readily available i.e the ammount the computer draws.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988 |
Quote:
Ya know Ian, I'm startin' to think it's more than just a coincidence that Ronald(69tri1) AND you are both runnin' the original batteries in your bikes after all these years, and that they're both still workin' strong, AND THAT you both live in Pennsylvania!
Hmmmm...Pennsylvania! Saaaay...THAT wouldn't happen to have been where Nikola Tesla was workin' on his experiments years ago, would IT?! AND if if was, then MAYBE you guys are still gettin' some kind'a "residual energy" from that???!!!
(...'cause ol' buddy, I've NEVER had a battery last ME more than about 4 years out THIS way!!!!)
I don't know Dwight I live in the western side of PA and the Dog lives on the eastern side. We have to oil our chains out here on the western side of the state!  But I do still have my original battery in my bike and have done absolutely no maintenance to it and she starts every spring without any issues.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
'05, never nothin'ed! (knock on wood)
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 203
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 203 |
Quote:
The dealer tests the battery (which was cared for over the winter) and the result is - perfect battery. Charge was at about 65%.
I don't think 65% would indicate a perfect battery to me.
These newer EFI bikes require top notch power for the ECU to allow the thing to start. If you're just slightly low, it won't start.
A couple of points:
* Your battery may have 12 volts but the ECU requires a little more to fire.
* Just because you have 12 or 12.5 volts doesn't mean you have enough amps in the battery to turn the starter over.
* "City tune" or someone now and then will call it Urban Tune. Have your dealer install it.
* What RPM is your bike idling at? If the idle is too low, the system won't charge well. Likewise, you could tweak the idle up just a snit and it may help get a better charge.
* True there are Regulator/Rectifier upgrades out there but you shouldn't need anything like that on a new bike, Couldn't hurt however.
* If the dealer isn't taking care of the problem as you see fit, consider another dealer.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 467
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 467 |
As a tech-mechanic. I do not care how clean or if a vehicle is garage kept it can have poor grounds. New bikes/vehicles have paint very often below those nice looking new battery ground cables and also the harness grounds.Yes I also agree if Roni your battery if at 65% is garbage. You dealer ought to at least give you the truth and say you need a new battery if the charging system checks out. You can go in and buy a new battery today and tomorrow it can be bad,seen it many times. I got lucky my 05 battery just went out last year, I believe the bike had around 45,000 miles then.Got a glass matt type battery for it to replace it,hopefully it last another four years.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 203
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 203 |
FWIW, there are three dealers withing approximately 60 miles of Columbus, OH and two in the Toronto area.
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,580 |
The initial 'big' charge that Dwight and others have mentioned is important. Its like showing the battery what it is capable of, otherwise the battery will suffer from what is known as 'memorey effect' and will never fully charge.
Your dealer should have done this, but might not have
Too old to die young, too ugly to leave a good looking corpse
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4 |
Quote:
Quote:
I've been riding for 25 years and this is my first Triumph - and I love it - when it starts. I'm looking for input on what the dealer service department told me - which I find hard to believe.
I bought the bike in May 2009 and promptly broke my arm (NON motorcycle related mishap). The bike sat for 6 weeks - brand new and unmoved. When I was able to ride - I did and the first season was great - better than great. The bike was stored in an underground garage and prepped for winter storage. Spring 2010 came and I was back on it with no problems until summer 2010. The bike doesn't start. Not what I expect from a bike with only 500 miles on it. The dealer tests the battery (which was cared for over the winter) and the result is - perfect battery. Charge was at about 65%. "How much have you ridden the bike?" I was asked. "At least every other week - weather and schedule permitting. At a minimum, I ride it to work every day possible - a 20 minute ride one way". The dealer tries to convince me that "the bike must be ridden more frequently to maintain a charge on the battery". I can't park it and go on a 3 week vacation without the battery going dead on a 2009 motorcycle I ask? The dealer finally concedes they will check the charging system next week. (Which they were supposed to do when I had it there for the "warranty scheduled service".
If you've stuck with me this far, maybe you can give me some input on what the dealer is saying. In my 25 years of ridding - and different motorcycles, I have never experienced this - and find it very hard to believe. I LOVE this bike - but cannot have this sort of unreliability (Wouldn't start after work last time.) Any input would be appreciated.
Going through these forums, it's great to see how much others enjoy their Triumphs. After buying and riding this bike, reading these forums, I can relate to the feelings noobs and long-time Triumph owners express in these forums.
Thanks,
Drew
I'm a bit confused here, which does not take much.
You say you rode the bike in 2009 and 2010 every chance you get to work 20 mins one way but the bike only has 500 miles on it?
Well - yes. Time is not equal to mileage. It takes 20 minutes to get there - it is maybe 4-5 miles away. I have ridden when I can - and aside from seasons and the other variables (broken arm) I haven't been able to be on it as much as I'd like. Also, keep in mind, bought May 2009. - started riding 6 weeks later. Bit of a shorter riding season in Toronto, and - life.
2009 Speedmaster
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4 |
Quote:
FWIW, there are three dealers withing approximately 60 miles of Columbus, OH and two in the Toronto area.
Ya, I know - thanks. I'm pretty much in Toronto for now. There USED to be a dealer about 1 mile away. The nearest one now (which shows 39 miles away) can take an outrageous amount of time to get there due to traffic - they are nowhere near centrally located. Add to that their now off-season hours, and it's a half-day off work round trip. And not a fun ride.
2009 Speedmaster
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Drew,
Since the bike is still under warranty keep your dealer in the loop and don't give up on a solution. The problem you have is quite easy to fix and Triumph is responsible. You should be able to leave the bike for several weeks with no problems.
Some of the fellows have mentioned hooking up a battery tender type charger. I agree but is shouldn't be necessary.
Do you have access to a volt meter? Hook it up accross the battery and note what the voltage is, engine off and engine running at idle and 1/3 throttle. 12.6 engine off and running around 13 to 14.
PS I'm in Toronto on business this week. Travelling to Ajax to the Triumph dealership in the late morning. If you could drive the bike up, I'd take a look at it. Don't have any tools or meters but....could still look and give you my opinion.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: 2009 Speedmaster
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
The initial 'big' charge that Dwight and others have mentioned is important. Its like showing the battery what it is capable of, otherwise the battery will suffer from what is known as 'memorey effect' and will never fully charge.
Your dealer should have done this, but might not have
This isn't an issue an issue with lead-acid batteries.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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