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Is It The Igniter.
#364691 12/02/2009 9:38 PM
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FrankW Offline OP
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The problem first started about 6 months ago, but very intermittently.

When starting the bike up from cold it would sometimes only fire on one cylinder. After opening the throttle a little the other cylinder would fire and all would be well.

This has happened about 4 times over a 6 months period, I suspected it was a fuel problem as it usually only happened after the bike had not been run for a week or so.

I went to start the bike last night after it had been parked for 5 days and it would only fire on the left cylinder. (I know it shouldn’t be parked for that long without being ridden but I had other things to do).

I checked for fuel, OK.

Swapped plug leads, still would not fire on the right cylinder. Using a spare plug. Sparked OK on left cylinder.

Swapped the coils, still not firing on the right cylinder.
Using a spare plug. Sparked OK on left cylinder.

Is there anyway of checking the igniter, or is it a case of swopping it for a known good one and seeing what you get?

Used Triumph spares in Australia are like rocking horse s**t, and a new igniter is about a A$1000.

All help will be appreciated.

Last edited by FrankW; 12/02/2009 10:02 PM.

FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364692 12/02/2009 9:46 PM
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FrankW unplug and plug 3 or 4 times make sure you got a good clean connection on the igniter. Do the same with the coil wires. Might want to change the plug if all this dosen't work. Rudyr, good luck

Re: Is It The Igniter.
majorruddell #364693 12/02/2009 10:00 PM
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I just saw this on ebay if you decide to go that route
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...5#ht_1352wt_962


Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
majorruddell #364694 12/02/2009 10:14 PM
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FrankW Offline OP
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Yes tried all that, swapped coils,leads,plugs and still can't get a spark on the right side.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
roadworthy #364695 12/02/2009 10:15 PM
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FrankW Offline OP
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Quote:

I just saw this on ebay if you decide to go that route
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...5#ht_1352wt_962




Thanks for that Roadworthy, I will check it out if I have to go that route.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364696 12/02/2009 11:30 PM
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I had something like that happen last July. A coil wire was loose. Didn't even notice it when I swapped the leads. Spread the lead end for the coil a bit and it stays in there just fine. Problem solved.


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It would be in your best interest to
FrankW #364697 12/03/2009 4:59 AM
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ask a dealer to replace the igniter via a Goodwill Claim

Re: Is It The Igniter.
Bucky #364698 12/03/2009 10:45 AM
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Frank,

Some things to consider before forking out the bucks for a new igniter.

1. Make sure the pickup coil is properly adjusted. That means pulling the right hand engine cover and checking the gap. Should be .8mm not the 1mm gap posted in early shop manuals. I have mine set at .6mm with no problem.
2. You might want to check the resistance of the pickup coil but I can't remember what it is right now and my bike is stored so I can't check. I realize that if the resistance is out it should affect both cylinders but for some reason, a lot of fellows have fixed the single cylinder firing problem by simply changing the pickup coil.
3. Make sure the leads and connections running from the pickup coil are tight and corrosion free.
4. Make sure your coil primary and secondary leads are secure. You might have to tighten up the interference fit on the plugs as already mentioned.
5. Make sure your plug connection for the CDI is tight and all connections for the pins are good. You can pull the plug apart somewhat to verify things are tight. Make sure the male pins are solid in the igniter.
6. Try warming up the igniter with a hair dryer or cooling it in a freezer to see if the cylinder will fire. If it runs after said temp change, your igniter is probably ....


12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
Re: Is It The Igniter.
Gregger #364699 12/03/2009 6:00 PM
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Quote:

Frank,

Some things to consider before forking out the bucks for a new igniter.

1. Make sure the pickup coil is properly adjusted. That means pulling the right hand engine cover and checking the gap. Should be .8mm not the 1mm gap posted in early shop manuals. I have mine set at .6mm with no problem.
2. You might want to check the resistance of the pickup coil but I can't remember what it is right now and my bike is stored so I can't check. I realize that if the resistance is out it should affect both cylinders but for some reason, a lot of fellows have fixed the single cylinder firing problem by simply changing the pickup coil.
3. Make sure the leads and connections running from the pickup coil are tight and corrosion free.
4. Make sure your coil primary and secondary leads are secure. You might have to tighten up the interference fit on the plugs as already mentioned.
5. Make sure your plug connection for the CDI is tight and all connections for the pins are good. You can pull the plug apart somewhat to verify things are tight. Make sure the male pins are solid in the igniter.
6. Try warming up the igniter with a hair dryer or cooling it in a freezer to see if the cylinder will fire. If it runs after said temp change, your igniter is probably ....




Hi Gregger, Thanks for all the suggestions.

The only thing I have not checked that you mentioned is the resistance of the pick up coil.
Last night I managed to contact a guy who lives about 25 Klms. from me who has a 2005 America. Up to now he is riding round to my place on Saturday and we are going to see if his igniter will work on my bike.
If it does work at least I will know that a new igniter will fix the problem.
If not it will be back to square one and more thought will be needed.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364700 12/03/2009 10:01 PM
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FrankW Offline OP
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I reset pick up gap to .8mm. Still no spark on right cylinder.

Checked wire from Igniter to right side coil for continuity. Checked OK.

As a last resort I swapped the wire from the ignitor which leads to the left cylinder coil with the wire which leads to the right cylinder coil.

Guess what? I now get a spark at the right cylinder and no spark at the left cylinder.

I can assume from this I need a new ignitor.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364701 12/03/2009 10:06 PM
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Looks like you have isolated the problem. Sure would like to know why these igniters fail? Good luck on finding a new one for a reasonable price.


12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364702 12/04/2009 1:05 AM
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Quote:


I can assume from this I need a new ignitor.




Yep, unfortunately a common problem on these bikes that Triumph refuses to address.


Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
Re: Is It The Igniter.
Gregger #364703 12/04/2009 2:27 AM
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Quote:

Looks like you have isolated the problem. Sure would like to know why these igniters fail? Good luck on finding a new one for a reasonable price.




I have just priced a new one here in OZ. A$1169 = US$1063.

It looks like BikeBandit US$606 + Shipping. If I can't find a 2nd. hand one.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364704 12/04/2009 12:40 PM
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have you asked your dealer about a new one.. many have got a new Igniter .from their dealer .even when out of warranty period..

ED


2013 NOREAST RALLY INFO>http://noreast.webs.com/
Re: Is It The Igniter.
biker #364705 12/04/2009 6:06 PM
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Quote:

have you asked your dealer about a new one.. many have got a new Igniter .from their dealer .even when out of warranty period..






Frank, mate you really need to take a stand here.

These ignitor problems are not going away and Triumph know they should have recalled and replaced them. Particularly at the price they want. It's a scam.

My suggestion to you is to do the following cos that's what I'd do.

Firstly research back as far as possible to find out who here has had to replace theirs either with or without warranty or better, out of warranty.

I recall a thread where a member asked others who had replaced theirs and we had quite a few names but I'm testing my noggin here.

Once you have your research stats, do another thread to pick up anyone else by asking the same question.

This issue is not going away and you can also help pave the way for others, like me for instance. Yes I do have a stake in this cos who knows if mine won't just give up the ghost at some point.

I believe we have the numbers and contacts to help each other here so that you won't have to pay the big bucks. And why should you? It's a rort that annoys the fu#k outa me, and I won't mention the other sub standard engineering issues our bikes have either.

Anyway that's what I'd do for yourself and to help create a precedence for others.

Of course if that fails (like your ignitor), I did a quick search myself and remembered this post. .

Personally, I don't believe we should have to replace an obvious fault Triumph know they should honour for free.

My 2 cents worth.

Staffo


Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
Stacka #364706 12/04/2009 7:21 PM
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Staffo, Here is a copy of my email to Procom yesterday, also their reply.

From what I have read Procom are about as reliable as Gill.

As for Triumph, how many weeks, months do I have to wait with my bike sat in a dealers workshop. I have to get past the local dealer first. They are certainly not going to give me a new igniter to fit myself.

Has anybody on this Forum had an Igniter replaced that is nearly 4 years out of warranty?

Email to and reply from Procom.

Thank you for your inquiry. Currently we do not manufacture a box for the Speedmaster. We are currently in the design phase and hope to have a box out by the middle of next year. Please check back in a few months. Thank you in advance.


On 12/3/09 6:30 PM, "Frank Whiteley" <loonganaboat@hotmail.com> wrote:


Hi,

I am trying to source a CDI box for a 2004 Triumph Speedmaster with a 790cc engine. (This is the engine with a 270 degree firing stroke)

I know you make them for the 360 degree engine which is in the Bonneville.

Do you make them for the 790cc 270 degree engine ?.

If so, where can I purchase one ?.

In Australia if possible, if not the West Coast ot the USA would be fine.

Regards

Frank Whiteley
Queensland
Australia

Last edited by FrankW; 12/04/2009 7:30 PM.
Re: Is It The Igniter.(Finding the dealer)
FrankW #364707 12/04/2009 7:51 PM
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Staffo, Further to my previous post.

My local dealer is not the dealer who sold the bike. I don't know which dealer sold it.

My local dealer is known for not being user friendly. He is also the local Harley dealer and tends to lean that way.

Showroom full of Harleys. He has sold 3 new Thunderbirds to my knowledge and still won't keep one on the showroom floor. Plenty of $35000 Harleys on show though.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.(Finding the dealer)
FrankW #364708 12/04/2009 8:20 PM
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How about a direct appeal to TR headquarters? They covered the faulty starter idler gear bushing, out of warranty, for myself and many others, at no charge for parts and labor! Appeal to maintaining their good name worldwide.


Hot Pipes
Re: Is It The Igniter.
Gregger #364709 12/04/2009 10:17 PM
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Have you tried locating an aftermarket igniter from an independent repair shop?

Assuming that is your problem, and it is out of warranty (If it is), Parts Unlimited may have a part to fit our bikes.

I had a rectyfier/regulator fail recently and the aftermarket part was less than half the price of the Triumph part.


Keith
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AI removed, Pingle, UNI Filter, 1 shim, straight-through slash-cut TORs, Stage 1 DynaJet, 140 mains, 3 turns, 16/42 final drive, 115K
2020 T120 Black
Re: Is It The Igniter.
Blackwind #364710 12/05/2009 3:03 AM
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Tried an igniter out of another bike today.

My bike started up straight away, guess i'm up for a new igniter.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364711 12/05/2009 1:48 PM
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I know it's been mentioned here a bunch Frank, but press on your dealer to try and get Triumph to replace it even though it is off warranty. This is more than just a possibility, especially now that you have isolated the problem to the igniter.


Bob 2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
Re: Is It The Igniter.
RamSound #364712 12/05/2009 3:58 PM
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i wonder what the difference is with the igniters,if it is only the timing for the spark could it be over come by disconnecting the TPS if so why not do a shonky ,fit yours to ya mates bike ,take it to the dealers ,oh look my igniter has failed ,most of the guys here in Brisbane at TeamMotto are that doey in the head they would'nt know the difference in the part #'s then when you get the new one just leave the TPS disconnected....
might be worth a try just putting it out their folks
btw sorry Frank i dont have a spare


04 yellow&black Speedmaster+the Money Pit{xj jeep}
Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364713 12/07/2009 12:45 PM
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Are you blowing the main fuse? My friend rides a 2006 Speedmaster and was having the exact same problem but was blowing fuses too. After replacing the ignitor, coils, wires and everything that we could think of he was still having the problem of only firing on one cylinder and blowing fuses intermittently. Finally we were able to find the problem. Where the wiring harness passes throught the bracket that the coils attach to on the frame, the clips that the coils screw to are sharpe and wore through the insulation on the wiring harness. It was hard to find and luck played a part in our discovery of it but since we patched it up and tie wrapped the harness up to the frame, he has not had any further problems. I looked this on my 2002 America and found that the clips were waring on my harness as well so I tie wrapped the harness up to the frame. I would suggest that everyone do the same to avoid some major headaches. The clips that the coil screw to are the culprit!

Re: Is It The Igniter.
FrankW #364714 12/07/2009 7:31 PM
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Here is what PROCON e-mailed me today when I asked for a 02 America 270 deg. igniter. The more people who ask, the sooner they might do something.

Thank you for your inquiry. We are currently designing these boxes. We should have them in production in the next month or two. Please check back with us then.

Procom Engineering, Inc.
(949) 748-6338 (wk)
(949) 748-6339 (fax)
http://www..procomengineering.com

Re: Is It The Igniter.
talcecom #364715 12/08/2009 8:03 AM
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Quote:

Here is what PROCON e-mailed me today when I asked for a 02 America 270 deg. igniter. The more people who ask, the sooner they might do something.

Thank you for your inquiry. We are currently designing these boxes. We should have them in production in the next month or two. Please check back with us then.

Procom Engineering, Inc.
(949) 748-6338 (wk)
(949) 748-6339 (fax)
http://www..procomengineering.com




I checked with Procom last week and they told me it would be the middle of next year.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: It Was The Igniter
FrankW #364716 12/16/2009 5:22 AM
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Got my new Igniter today. Plugged it in and started up on both cylinders straighy away.

I ended up buying one from Jack Lilley Triumph in the Uk after the one from the USA didn't happen.

It cost AU$640 including shipping. Saved AU$600, compared to Australian dealer prices.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: It Was The Igniter
FrankW #364717 12/16/2009 10:52 AM
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$585.00 U.S. about. Yep, that is about right for that little $90.00 piece of plastic with firmware in it.

Keep your eyes open for a wrecked one. Buy it off of the bike even if you don't need it. You may need it later.

Shameless behavior by Triumph for that pricing.

I really hope somebody makes an aftermarket one soon. Like the Virago, if ignitors in years to come are not aftermarket the bike will be useless once Triumph stops taking care of the parts for them.


I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
Re: It Was The Igniter
satxron #364718 12/16/2009 6:51 PM
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FrankW Offline OP
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Quote:



I really hope somebody makes an aftermarket one soon. Like the Virago, if ignitors in years to come are not aftermarket the bike will be useless once Triumph stops taking care of the parts for them.




I contacted Procom a couple of weeks back and they reckon mid next year.

Quality would be the issue with Procom.

There again, look at the quality issues with Gill Igniters.


FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: It Was The Igniter
FrankW #364719 12/17/2009 11:07 PM
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I saw this Czech company mentioned on another site catering for Triumph Tiger. A common theme ...failed igniters.

Someody might like to give them a try?? Mine ain't failed so I don't need to do any running just yet. http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

Good Luck


Think what you say .....before you say what you think!!! If in doubt...say nowt!!
Re: It Was The Igniter
FrankW #364720 12/18/2009 1:01 AM
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The sad part of your story Frank is that there are blokes out there who are actually buying it from Aus dealers for that sort of money, not only doing themselves out at least double of what they should as you've proven, but these bluff's which I'll call "genuine Recommended Retail Prices" (yeah right) wouldn't be asked by the smiling assassins if they weren't getting those that don't know better. Thank Goodness for the internet I say.

Another reason why this place (the forum) has been just the best. It's saved me some real big ones cos of the generosity of some of our selfless members who have gone out of their way to order for me from O/S, thereby taking the middle rip off artist out of the loop. There's more than one way to skin a cat buddy?

That's why I try to do what I can, when I can. In different ways maybe but still, looking after each other to beat the bast#rds is what it's all about.

Still criminal though you had to pay that much anyway but you gotta balance what it costs to be off the road too, which is what you had to do no doubt.

We never know what's round the corner (no pun intended) as I see and other firies on here see regularly.

So what costs do you put on a good ride? Yeah, that one too LOL

You're back on the road now which is what matters mate.

Now, where was that post on us Aussies getting together for a cruise and maybe a light beer mmmm


Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
Re: It Was The Igniter
Stacka #364721 12/18/2009 5:17 AM
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Hey Staffo, I wish I knew somebody who worked in a dealership then I might be able to find out who is charging the horrendous prices.

I know dealers have to make money, I was in business long enough to know that you have to make a profit.

So who is gouging, Triumph or the dealers.

I honestly think it is Triumph.

i.e. Prosperous country, small turnover, high prices.

As explained to me.

Look at the current prices for new Triumphs. When compared to the USA or the UK. Somebody mentioned to me that it was the long delivery distance. Aren't we nearer to Thailand than the USA or UK.

Last edited by FrankW; 12/18/2009 5:20 AM.

FrankW Ex Speedmaster rider, went to the Dark Side now riding an America.
Re: It Was The Igniter
BABRAT #364722 12/18/2009 10:00 AM
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Quote:

I saw this Czech company mentioned on another site catering for Triumph Tiger. A common theme ...failed igniters.

Someody might like to give them a try?? Mine ain't failed so I don't need to do any running just yet. http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

Good Luck





can you say what Tiger 955 or 1050 ????? I am on 3 tiger tiger sites and don't see any post about failed Igniter ??

Ed


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