Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods Just how bad are the BA/America brakes?

Greetings, all,

I hope you will pardon a question from a newbie -- new both to the group and to cycling -- which has probably been fielded by the group more than once, but my purchase of an America hinges on the answer: Just how bad are the brakes on the Americas? The reviews I have found both in print and on-line have indicated that the writers were not happy with the front brakes of the BA/America, but none of them ever actually quantified how bad the brakes were. The few messages I managed to find here on the topic tend to reinforce the impression that the brakes on the bike could use some serious redesign, but is the problem the feel of the brakes or is actual stopping distance bad? I had written off a Speed Four based on the combination of my relative inexperience and reports of the Speed Four's brakes being to sharp for neophytes, but now I wonder if perhaps the America's brakes are dangerously inadequate or if the factory has addressed the reputed problems. I am not interested in jetting about like Squidly Diddly, but I would like to be able to come to a reasonably fast stop without having to invert bike and rider to do it.

If the brakes are inadequate from the factory, is there a proven fix for the problem that doesn't involve hundreds of dollars of rework?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

The brake calipers on these bikes are what is known as a "sliding caliper" i.e. the pistons in the brake caliper are only on one side - the back pad is passive. When you apply the brakes, the pistons are pushed out and this forces the inner brake pad against the inner side of the rotor. The caliper simultaneously slides inward on sliding pins, pulling the brake pad in the outer side of the caliper against the outer surface of the rotor. This system works fine - until the sliding pins seize up due to corrosion from road crud etc. Then the piston side does all the work leading to uneven pad and rotor wear and I suspect that this lies at the heart of the rotor problems some people on the board have been experiencing. This design was in use by the Japanese in the 1970's for god's sake...the only thing to commend it is that it's CHEAP. Other than that, a POS....

Most modern bikes have fixed caliper brakes with one, two or even three pistons in each side of the caliper (two, four or six pistons total). The pistons are said to be opposed - i.e. they work against each other. When you apply the brakes, all of the pistons force the brake pads against the rotor, and the caliper assembly does not have to move. True, these brakes can also suffer from stuck pistons but so do the sliding caliper type. IMHO, the stock brakes should be replaced with an opposed piston type. I beleive the Harrison billet calipers for the Thunderbird sport will fit our bikes and also there is an offering available via Triumph. Hope this helps

Jan

The brakes work fine.... they require a bit of maintenance, but they work fine.

If you want to impress your friends by doing "endos", then this ain't the bike for you....

Both brakes, front and rear, will lock up the wheel if you grab them firmly. But they modulate quite well before that point...

I've done a lot of two-up riding and riding with a trailer, on my america, both at high speeds. I've read the same revues and I can see their point. The front brakes don't feel "sharp", and as has already been pointed out have a single cylinder on a sliding caliper. There's also only a single disk compared with the twin disks found on the speedmaster & thunderbird sports.

The "feel" can be improved by replacing the rubber brake line with a braided steel one, and a "floating" disk can be used to minimise uneven pad wear. The speedmaster wheels & brakes are available as a factory option on the america.

However I feel the complaints are mainly an effort by "experts" in magazines to find something to complain about. While I've not come close to flipping the bike on it's front wheel, I've never felt like I didn't have enough brake to do the job. They're not amazing brakes, but they do the job as well as I want. Personally I'd like to upgrade to twin disks, but it's of so little importance to me that I'd rather keep the single disk rather than lose the spoked wheels for the speedy's alloy ones.

I suggest that if you really want reassurance, read through the forums here searching for people complaining about the performance of the front brakes - I think you'll find there's not many complaints (other than Adey who seems to find joy in making his front disk warp ).

Matt

Quote:

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beleive the Harrison billet calipers for the Thunderbird sport will fit our bikes and also there is an offering available via Triumph

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Speedy23,What info do you have on these other options?
Thanks, mikemm03

Hi there Tom,

Welcome to a great site. If you cannot find the answer to any question (including vegetable gardening) here, you may as well give up the question!

The brakes. You are going to get a ton of agreeing/dissenting opinions on here (and that's all they are) and here is mine. I live in Ft. Lauderdale where the cars/trucks/SUVs are plentiful and they all do not give a crap about motorsickles. Therefore, I am always grabbing a handful (and a footfull) of brakes. I have never thought "gee, is this bike going to stop?". It friggin stops just fine. Could it be better? Of course, but so could 99.9% of things out there.

All that said, I am VERY happy with the brakes and the way they handle. Will I upgrade them? Possibly, but not in the near future.

My suggestion is to go to the dealer and take a demo ride and see for yourself. Ride a BA and an SM and do a panic stop on each...

The fix: get a speedmaster

Added bonus: alloy wheels and a tach....oh, and killer looks.

Ok, ya'll can kill me now.

Definitely ditch the OEM pads. EBC sintered pads front/rear made a big improvement with my bike. I won't be doing any stoppies, but the two disc America has plenty of safe braking power for the cruiser rider.
The forward control rear pedal is easy to over-modulate and takes some practice not to lock up.

2 up in the mountains on my america i feel just fine with the breaks i have. they can stop the bike just fine. there always room for improvement but these brakes do get the job done. plus many reviews just lok for things to cry about because i rode my friends 05 suzuki C50 and his brakes dont feel nearly as good as my america

Frank

"The fix: get a speedmaster"

my humble comment... braaaaaaaaattttttt...

The brakes on my '03 America are better than the ones on the OL's '05 HD Lowrider. Depending on how you ride, you will probably need to replace the rear pads (a 20 minute task) sometime between 5K and 15K miles. If you buy aftermarket pads from newspeedmaster.com, they will last you about 2 to 3 times as long as the original. If you ride like a teenager, the same place has a great buy on a floating disk and really good brake pads.

Welcome to the group, friend...don't let any nonsense from those so-called reviewers throw you off...overall the Triumph machines are well-designed and well made...not to mention absolutely phenomenal good looks! Like any machine, of course, there are occassional glitches and failures, but these are not commonplace. To the point in question, the brakes are more than adequate. The front brake is not crisp, and feels a bit spongy, but overall has good stopping power, especially when combined with the rear brake. I agree that the sintered pads and stainless brake line would improve the feel and performance, and I personally intend to do this...but as a matter of preference, rather than necessity. Buy your Triumph, ride it, enjoy it...you'll come to love it...and oh, btw...don't listen to certain individuals in this forum (who shall be nameless for the time being...but they WILL appear unto you!) who will try to persuade you that...ahem...red is faster, black is faster, speedmasters are better...and other such schlock...buy a speedy, or buy an america in the color that you like and ride on, brother...

SPEEDMASTERS ARE THE SHIZZLE!! (Especially the yellow and black ones)

Sorry, couldn't resist throwing that out there!

Carry on, Carry on.

When I went to the experienced riders course this past summer I found that out of all the various bikes there my new America's stopping distance was about half of theirs. I was very impressed. I may have been braking more aggressive than some of the others, don't know for sure. Probably on average my bike was lighter, but all in all my 05' America brakes just fine.

Jerry

I have the floating front disc and the upgraded pads. Big difference in feel! If you grab a handfull, you'll feel it quick! Definitely worth it. I also have the braided lines.

Thanks to all of you who replied to me. I have read each and every one of your comments at least twice (including the recommendations to buy a Speedmaster -- please don't throw me into that briar patch, heh heh). I learned alot more from your comments than from the reams of inane prose put out by the "professional" motojournalists.

Seriously, I am not at all unhappy if the BA/America's brakes won't stand it on its nose as long as they help keep me from becoming a backseat driver in whataver vehicle pulls out in front of me. Seeing a couple of video clips of riders being flung off their mounts with the help of extraordinarily strong brakes convinced me that there is such a thing as too much brakes for a new rider not yet skilled enough to avoid locking up the brakes in a panic. So, my second-to-last issue with the America has been resolved. Now, only one question remains: What color? : )

The Fool

I agree with ssjones. I recently changed the pads to the EBC sintered "HH" pads and noticed a big difference. The stock brakes are fine but can feel soft. They will stop the machine in a hurry, they just don't feel like they will. The sintered pads give quite a bit more feel. One of the differences in the "crappy" brakes on the America and the "outstanding" brakes on the Thruxton is mearly the pads. The Thrux has the sintered pads from the factory.

Hi Fool,
When it comes to color there is nothing that compares to Black&Chrome all shined up.
A few here may not agree and those are the ones you don't want to listen to.
You started it!

You know blue and chrome looks the business!!
Joking aside, I think the blue sets the chrome off better than black.

One of these days Adey you'll get your head out of your cornflaxes you know Black and Chromes is best

Doesn't the thrux. have a bigger floating rotor?

As everyone knows, but few admit, they call it *JET* black because the black ones are just naturally faster.

Tom, Depends on if you want to find it in a crowd. Green America, of course

Jerry

malbury red is the best looking color hands down

Frank

I guess when you ride one of those slow Americas, you only need one front brake. The faster Speedmasters have two for a reason!

O.k. Guys... before this post degerates into a referendum on Speedmasters versus Americas, I thought I'd like to ask one more question before getting back to the color issue. (I know my preference) So here it is:

Does anyone feel their rear wheel locks up a little too easy?

It's probably my crappy technique combined with too much speed, but I always apply both brakes at the same time and sometimes find it a little too easy to lock up the rear on fast slow downs. Not a everytime I ride, just enough that when it happens it's a surprise. (Otherwise, I feel the brakes are fine and plan never to sell my Speedy). Thoughts?

I've noticed the same. My BA locks the rear wheel faster than ANY bike I owned in the past!! On my other bikes, I tend to use 80-90% front braking, but with my as-of-late "cruiser mentality", I catch myself using the rear more??!?!!
Oh.... I wonder if it's partially due to that crumby Bridgestone I stll have back there?

interesting.. I also have Metzelers... but again, I'm not ready to discount technique as the culprit. That said...

what about the rear breaking loose at "launches"?

Not that I'm exactly launching the bike at stop lights, but I sometimes feel the rear gets squirely too easily (and the tires are fine treadwise - I've got less than 6000 miles on my bike)

p.s. Disclaimer - I still would never sell this bike!

That will probably get somewhat better once you wear out the original pads and replace them with aftermarket ones. The stock pads are a bit soft. This makes them quiet, harder grabbing (when cool) and they tend to heat up (and fade) sooner than harder ones. In the meantime, just try to remember that the rear braked will normally stop better than you expect.
By all means though, check that the rear pads are clean and dry. A little misplaced chain spray, dust, axle grease escaping past a damaged seal or leaking brake fluid will make a brake "grabby".

Thanks for the tip, Ed. Good advice to watch for overspray when lubing the chain, etc. And maybe I'll give a shot at new pads all around as a winter project, too.

when i put the ebc pads i can put more pressure on without locking it up. change the ads and there will be a noticible difference

Frank

Speedy, Yes the Thruxton does have a floating rotor that is I believe 5mm larger. That will help the front brake dissapate heat faster, but will do little for the "feel" or the "bite" of the brake. Riding down a mountain road the larger floating rotor may come in handy as it will cool faster but in "normal" riding (what is normal anyway?) the pads will make the bigger difference.

I had to chuckle at a friend of mine the other day. He put some big dollar slotted brake rotors all around on his shiney new Mustang then complained it doesn't stop any better. I asked him what kind of pads he used he told me he got the cheapest he could from Kragen. He's happy now that we put some nice high performance sintered pads on.

Here's the definitive explanation of colors. Hey, I pulled it off the web. It HAS to be correct! I've highlighted the important parts for all you miscreants...

Red - Red is the color of fire and blood, so it is associated with energy, war, danger, strength, power, determination as well as passion, desire, and love. Red is a very emotionally intense color.

Orange - Orange combines the energy of red and the happiness of yellow. It is associated with joy, sunshine, and the tropics. Orange represents enthusiasm, fascination, happiness, creativity, determination, attraction, success, encouragement, and stimulation. Orange is very effective for promoting food products and toys.

Yellow - Yellow is the color of sunshine. It's associated with joy, happiness, intellect, and energy. Yellow produces a warming effect, arouses cheerfulness, stimulates mental activity, and generates muscle energy. Yellow is often associated with food.

Green - Green is the color of nature. It symbolizes growth, harmony, freshness, and fertility. Green has strong emotional correspondence with safety. Dark green is also commonly associated with money.

Blue - Blue is the color of the sky and sea. It is often associated with depth and stability. It symbolizes trust, loyalty, wisdom, confidence, intelligence, faith, truth, and heaven. Blue is considered beneficial to the mind and body. It slows human metabolism and produces a calming effect. Blue is strongly associated with tranquility and calmness.

Purple - Purple combines the stability of blue and the energy of red. Purple is associated with royalty. It symbolizes power, nobility, luxury, and ambition. It conveys wealth and extravagance. Purple is associated with wisdom, dignity, independence, creativity, mystery, and magic. According to surveys, almost 75 percent of pre-adolescent children prefer purple to all other colors.

White - White is associated with light, goodness, innocence, purity, and virginity. It is considered to be the color of perfection.

Black - Black is associated with power, elegance, formality, death, evil, and mystery. Black denotes strength and authority; it is considered to be a very formal, elegant, and prestigious color.

So in other words Yellow and Black Speedmasters are the perfect representations of Energy, Strength, and Authority! Outstanding!

from that red are definetly the best no. and better looking

Frank

Or power food.....

Is that the emotional side of you talking Frank?