Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Another Tire Post - fyi Only

I have used Metzlers since day one. As most, I have been thoroughly satisfied. About three weeks ago, on the advisement of my dealer, I purchased a Dunlop 404 front and an Avon Venom rear. I have no idea how they'll wear, but, I have never experienced such a dramatic, positive change in handling characteristics. Dry pavement, wet pavement, and newly paved with those crappy stones and tar - All conditions were met with unexpected performance. I say all this only because its a mix that I have never heard anyone using.

Perhaps I'll try to remember to re-post closer to their end of life.

Tyre cost and wear is a pretty big topic as you know Bazza but so is grip so when we find someone who has found a good combo, this type of info can be gold. So if you can remember your impressions as the kliks (miles) pass you buy, it'd be pretty handy.

I've just changed to the marathons after using the lazertechs for 2 tyre changes. I wasn't impressed with the how long they lasted.

I'm not sure though how dramatic the effect of riding with a couple of psi lower than specified has on tyre wear cos whilst I'm on top of it now, I found I was caught out a couple of times, making me realise I had to check more often.

So it may well have been me, I don't know.

I've been using the Dunlop on the rear for quite a while now. But I'm never gonna be able to tell about handling characteristics, cause I've never had a newer bike till the BA. Only old trumpets, and no kind of tires are gonna make the BA handle with my old trumpets.

I've gone through 3 sets of Avons - front and rear. I don't ride like a wildman, but I've scraped my pipes with the Avons and they grip like crazy.
I put Dunlops on this last go round and the front is still in good shape while the rear wore out at less than 4000 miles. So now I'm riding with the D404 on front and a Bridgestone Spitfire on the back. They handle well in all situations, but they don't give me the same "stuck to the road" feel like the Avons did.

It will be interesting to see how long your combo (and mine, for that matter..) last.

interesting combo.

Replaced the stock Bridgestones on both of our Americas with Dunlops on front and back. 3rd set on mine 2nd set on the wife's...Never had any problems with the Dunlops...they're a heck of alot cheaper, and last me around 9000 miles (front)...Not going to pay for something just so I can say I have it...IYKWIM...

+1 on the roadholding of the Avon Venom, feels much more surefooted than the ME880 ever did, especially noticeable when it gets wet.

I was just interested to know why you would have different tyres front v back. I always thought it was best to have the same brand on both.

For instance, the venoms are getting some good wraps so I just don't understand why you wouldn't put them on the front too.

Just interested for my next tyre change down the track. Like, we are all searching for the best package available with all the boxex ticked aren't we?

it seems some get 4k with avons and others get 10k. seems like a big difference even with different locations

So how goes it with the dunlop/avon combination? I am going to try something new this time for sure.

Combos run:
880 pairs
Avon Venom pairs
Spitfires pairs

Been a little slack this year, so i've only ridden 13k in 12 months. Lots of tread left on the Kendas.

Moe, I've been recently reading some not so good press on the marathons. Couldn't find who had mentioned their experiences when they found them a bit slippery in the wet.

I've just changed to them from lazertechs and was a bit concerned maybe I'd made the wrong choice.

The other thing is what I found in the tech vault re tyre pressure

Quote:

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170/80-15 ME880 - 40psi.

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Is that right? If so I better increase my pressure cos I've been using 34psi but luckily not for that long. Can you confirm what tyre pressures should be used for the 880 marathons both front and back? It might explain some bad experiences in the wet, I dunno. Hope so anyway.

Also, Have you had any probs with the 880's in the wet by any chance?

Thanks for any feedback cos at least the lazertechs felt grippy in the wet but just shocking longevity. Certainly in my experience anyway.

cheers
staffo

Hi John,

I never have had issues with the 880s in the wet. I really wanted an Avon for the rear but as luck would have it none were available locally. So I settled for an 880. Didn't want a dunlop 404 for the rear. I asked the various shops about formula changes for the 880s and all told me no changes in formula. As usual I had to inform one shop that the upgraded dunlop (from the 404) they showed me had a manufacture date of 2006. And the other one still bound to two other tires had a 2005 date! They were shocked to say the least. At least the metz I got from em had a decent date. Like April of 09. Funny how tire specific shops can still learn something. Like metz are made in brazil. "oh no they are from the fatherland" Well then what does this say right ...
...here? "Oh okay I see it now. "

As usual the buyer has to be fully cognizant and shop way before beer thirty. Speaking of buying locally, EVERY shop wanted to match the lowest price I got off the www. The beauty of them matching price is I gets to look at the DOT stamp.

Re tire pressure, I run 38/36 on my 880 although that is a bit low for yanks but not for us Floridians where the average ambient temps are something ridiculous like 90 degrees.

One thing about the 880s v the venoms is that the 880s have a much friendly sidewall profile for direction change. At least that has been my experience having both brands mounted on Americas simultaneously.

An inverse relationship exist between tire tread life and tire handling (grippyness). Which is another reason I wasn't too bummed out with no venoms being available.

Speaking directly to the wet handling of the 880s, if you are coming from a high tread life tire, the 880s are grand. However if ya are coming from a tacky tire the wet handling will cause a buttocks pinch or two until you have several under your belt. Gosh, was I to reside in a location that had lots of twisties I sure would be going through a lot of venoms. But I don't so the 880 is an excellent trade off for me.

Hi again Moe,

just one more question re the 880's and it's about tyre inflation and logically I want to get it right.

You said

Quote:

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Re tire pressure, I run 38/36 on my 880 although that is a bit low for yanks but not for us Floridians where the average ambient temps are something ridiculous like 90 degrees

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Do you mean 36 front and 38 rear, which I'm thinking you do, and secondly, my not knowing that much about tyres etc I'm at 2000feet so just in your opinion (no big deal), what would you suggest I run both my 880 front psi and 880 rear psi at my altitude? Sounds like it would be 38F and 40R, what do you think?

Regarding long life = less grip (harder compound) etc etc, I understand that but riding in the wet takes practice and common sense so if that saves me some money but along the way I learn the limitations I'm happy with that considering I'm not too big on the race scene anyway.

thanks for your info and if you could just give me an IMHO on pressures, I'd be greatful for that info too.

cheers

Firstly, i don't know sheet. Secondly, imho 38F and 40R is okay. Lower pressures afford a softer ride is all. We aren't racers and as such, I don't have much concern over a pound or two for the casual rider. Although I hear that a pound or two makes a world of difference on the track. Heck, to keep the tires at a certain pressure ya have to check em every day and we all do that.

The wet handling for most highway tires sucks vis-a-vis things such as painted lines, steel, leaves, tar snakes, etc. Ride like all that stuff is trying to kill ya and the wet handling issues are mute.
The 880s are top of the line tires. I betcha that those that had wet issues with their 880s had old tires or exhibit a propensity to ride hot into turns.

Check out how awful my old rear skin was. omg.

What is that? A bubble/general deformation the size of one's palm? Jeez. No wonder the thing tracked uneven surfaces.

Thin is a four letter word.

Yeah, wear bars are getting close, but with a casual rider i'd estimate these tires would easily go 15000+. I ride pretty hard though. I blew through D404s at 6k (rear), oem (for '02) bridgestones in 8500, and ME880s in 11k. Uhh... I should mention that the Kendas don't grip wet road stripes well... I went down hard on the Hellbender July 4th. (Just over 50k uninsured medical bills from that.)

I run the low cost Venom (RoadRidder?)on the front. I'm using 28-30 psi up front, and 26-28 on the rear. Florida, 50-150' above sea level.
(just doing my part to keep this thread alive.

Well, if you know shite Moe, where does that leave me mmm???

In particular, considering how important those donuts are, I like to pick the brains from anyone who has learnt from here and there.

In this discussion I find it interesting to read the variations between one rider and another or is it one tyre and another.

First thing though, is there or why would there be such a big difference between one tyre the same size as another yet made by different manufacturers?

Here we have much the same elevation yet Erle runs around 28 on the rear using Venoms whilst Moe's is around 36 or there about for the 880's.

That's a big difference between manufacture's tyre specs?

Sure, I don't want to take this thing too seriously but to have a fair understanding wouldn't be a bad thing.

Even if you take the safety aspect away and do as Moe suggests, which is let me say, take a more mature way of riding. Just the cost factor itself is a fair incentive to be in the right ball park inflation wise.

The other thing is, the triumph manual specs say around 31F and 34R (or there abouts), but hasn't there been a variation in tyre manufacturers from stock depending on which country you bought your bike?

Me for instance, I had lazertechs but am I wrong when I recall others having Bridgestones or something similar etc as stock on their bikes when they bought them?

A few questions there, and then I've found this inflation guide by Metzler for the 880's.

So by the looks of things Triumph owes me a few bucks cos my Lasertechs lasted bug#erall k's.

Anyway,
for Marathons

you may find this chart interesting.

Anyone else want to add their experiences, join in cos it's not nearly as simple as I've thought

My front Lasertec is still going at almost 24,000 miles.

Careful on how ya read the chart.

The way eyes reads that chart:

880s ONLY
SOLO
Front 38-40
Rear 40


NOTES:
1. We aren't running the Alpha tires.
2. For bikes with the following rear tire sizes: 170/80-15, 180/70-15, 150/80-16, 160/80-16, 180/60R16, 180/70R16, 200/60R16, 240/50R16, 140/80-17, 160/70-17 D spec, 170/60R17, 210/50R17, 150/70-18, 180/55ZR18, 200/50R18, 210/40R18, 260/40R18, 280/35R18, 300/35R18, 260/35R21.

ME880 (tires as listed above in item 2.)
Rear
Solo 40
2 Up Light 42
2 Up Heavy 42


COMMENTS:
I might just increase the tire pressure in my rear 880 to 40psi. I am in a quandary about what to spoon on the front wheel. An 880 or a dunlop 404...

nice composition.

Thang-Q !

Ian, can you tell me what psi you have run in your lazertechs? that's the only variations I see can effect what you've been getting miles wise and us. Tell me you've been running them at 40 psi will ya. If you have I can live with it cos at least then I'll be able to put an end to the puzzle.

And while I'm here, Erle, that's a nice looking bike you have there. As a looker it's up there but IMHO the tool bag on the forks takes away some of the "hey, nice bike" factor, but all the same we, or should that be you, are all a bit different

One thing though which intrigues me with these bikes with no guards, how do you travel in the rain? It's got me bamboozled

thanks for the pic anyway cos whilst I'm "bamboozled" about the guard thing, (some would say I'm always Bam....." it does look

Um, I was sort of refering to the Triumph with no Wheel guards, not whatever that pic is of.

It's not important.

Thanks for the complement. The "bags", Front, back, or bottom of downtubes, have two straps that hold them on, and can come off in less then 60 seconds, if desired. But with the minimum necessities for road travel, I just can't get along without the three of them. (It's bad enough I can't carry cold beer while traveling, like my "Bagger Buddies" do)

Quote:

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Like fat girls, we've all been caught on something we probably wouldn't brag about, such as that H.D.

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So true my learned friend Next beer

fyi, I'm running the 170/80-15 in the rear and still have 5mm (that's 1/5th") after 4000k's and the fronts were replaced at the same time and have the same depth of tread.





I've been inflating them at 31F and 33R with no grip issues so far in the dry or wet.

So, do we listen to Triumph's or Metzeler's recommendations. For instance Triumph know what bike the tyres are on but Metzeler has a generic for "Touring/Cruising" table with my tyre listed.

I'm more confused now than I was before, that's for sure. Maybe it gets down to a compromise between the both. Comfort wise for me, lower pressures as suggested by fogle makes sense but will the handling be less optimum for the sake of a spongier ride so to speak (boing boing - LOL).

There has to be a definitive answer or isn't it that simple cos I can understand a few psi's difference but holey dooley,

for solo riding here are the comparisons:

31psi (Triumph Recommendation for front) v 38psi (Metz) and,

33/4psi (Triumph for Rear) v 44/46 psi (Metz for Rear).

That is just a huge difference, and a whopping 10+ psi diff in the rear.

This isn't adding up (sorry) in my book.

At least I'm getting some descent wear out of the Marathons compared to the Lazertechs though. Geez, I'd probably be thinking about whether I had enough tread to go north again in a few weeks if I still had the Lazers.

John,

Metzeler's inflation table reads this way for

880s ONLY and for rear size of 170/80-15 only
SOLO
Front 38-40
Rear 40psi

Thanks Moe,

Your right, the table is a bit confusing but it does appear 40psi is definite for the Rear and 38 for the front.

Still a big difference though.

I have emailed Metz about it and see if they come back with a reply.

finding triumph's contact is not as easy though.

staffo