 Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948 |
My 2006 has about 25,000 plus miles and I am getting a very loud tapping. I had the valves set by an independent shop and the noise didn't go away so I personally checked them and they were all in tolerance. Then I took the bike to my dealer and their Triumph experienced tech checked it over and said everything was in spec. But it sounds like one of the right exhaust valves is hammering-way above the noise of the others. Doesn't sound like piston slap or anything like that. I'm leaving Sunday for a 1500 mile trip-anyone have any clues what could cause this excessive noise? 
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457 |
Probably have to change the backlash springs. I'm doing that every time I do the valves from now on. I think they are around $12 from the dealer.
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948 |
Thanks, never heard that before. I'll look into that.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 44
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 44 |
Quote:
Thanks, never heard that before. I'll look into that.
Hey, would you let us know if that turns out to be the remedy?
'05 Speedmaster, Corbin Solo Seat, removed psgr. pegs, idiot lights converted to led, AI removed, left mirror removed, long slashcut exhaust with baffles removed.
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457 |
I saw that on another site somewhere. The guy posted before and after videos with sound. The springs are C-shaped stamped steel, kind of crude in my opinion. EDIT- Found it. Videos and stills Sure do appreciate people that document their troubleshooting.
Last edited by Lonzo; 08/12/2009 4:04 PM.
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
The only other posts related to valve train noise that didn't go away after a valve adjustment that I can remember were due to a defective cam chain adjuster spring and a worn cam bearing due to an out of round cam journal. (memory isn't the best though)
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948 |
The overall sound of my valve train is similar to the sound in the first clip although it is hard to tell. However, I do have a much louder single 'CLICK,CLICK,CLICK' like a small block with solid lifters where one is badly out of adjustment. The concern is either I leave Sunday or don't get to go this year. I hope it isn't causing serious damage.
I will report when it is fixed.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I've got that noise too. Dang, I was going to just check my valves again (and I will) but those videos give me something else to look for.
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
The only other posts related to valve train noise that didn't go away after a valve adjustment that I can remember were due to a defective cam chain adjuster spring and a worn cam bearing due to an out of round cam journal. (memory isn't the best though)
Chy had an out of round bearing surface in his that he sussed last year using donor parts from 'The Orphan'...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
I didn't think these motors have cam bearings????
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64 |
Quote:
I didn't think these motors have cam bearings????
They don't and that is one thing I really don't like. Bad design and no reason for it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
I didn't think these motors have cam bearings????
Ian's right, there are no inserts. The head is the bearing.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
I don't think the design is that bad at all. Seems like
a lot of oil gets pumped to the cams. When I adjusted my
valves at 13k, there was no appearent wear at all. Some
members here have logged over 75k without going in the
motor. Change the oil, and hope for the best.
Your results may vary,
Uncle Charlie
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I didn't think these motors have cam bearings????
No, they use the parent material as the bearing surface. A slight coating of oil acts as the bearing proper and as long as the surface is true you can put over 100,000 miles on an engine with very little wear. Honda was the first to put this mass production practice into the mainstream and virtually every manufacturer has followed suit because it is successful.
The inherent weakness is that a journal milled out of round or an out of round camshaft would cause the kind of excessive valve train noise that Chy discovered. And, the one out-of-round part would then transfer that state to the other part. Uncommon but not unheard of.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64 |
When I say it's a bad design I don't mean it doesn't work or last a while. What I mean is it's bad for guys like me who don't plan on selling the machine and want to keep it running. Once that wears ,and it will eventually wear ,or if you have an out of round condition then the repair much much more costly that it needs to be. With bearings it's a simple matter of new bearings and cams with our type set up it means head replacement.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,362
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,362 |
The Dog's comment got me thinking... I've rebuilt more than my fair share of worn out old british engines (car, not bike) and had to use techniques like nitriding a crank to get worn journals up to the max bearing oversize, and I'm wondering if there's any reason the cam bearing surfaces can't be bored slightly to take bearings, assuming some can be found of the correct diameter & width? I'm not sure at what point the oil journals pass through to the bearing surfaces and finding bearings to match this could be the biggest problem, unless it's possible to drill journal holes in bearing caps?
At this point it's not a huge issue as new parts are available (at a cost), but if it gets to the day where these bikes haven't been made in years and someone (like me) is wanting to restore one it might become more viable.
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Ian, you have a good point about the wear but I still think you have to consider all of the 1970s CB-750s that are running over the road now and still show minimal wear. Then there's also the 100,000 mile Bonnie that was reported earlier this year; I'm not so sure that after 100K miles that replacing the head would really bother me too much, at least not as much as replacing the ignitor at 10K did.
I was trying to think of an overhead cam engine that actually uses a separate bearing and I couldn't think of one. Anyone? I can only recall pushrod engines that use cam bearings, but that just be my limited exposure to overhead cam machines.
And, Matt, I've only been in the cam chest once but I don't think I saw enough meat to retro fit a decent bearing. But it would be a great idea to be able to line bore and fit a caged bearing, just think how bullet proof that would end up being.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64 |
I don't think there would be enough meat on the caps for a bearing. I just hate to think if for any reason a cam went bad and caused Journal damage when it did there would be no repairing it you would have to buy a head. And even after 100,000 miles I would still rather buy bearings than a head. I have rebuilt 50s and 60s Triumph heads with 3 times that on it and I just don't see that happening with our bikes.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1 |
Hi
I seem to have the same problem with my 06 Speedmaster. I had my valves set by an independent shop and I thought the sound was OK but the minute I left the shop I started hearing this "CLICK, CLICK" again.
I guess the best solution is to take my bike to the shop again and show them those videos that Lonzo found.
Just wanted to share that I also have this problem.
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Re: Help-Excessive valve noise
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I don't think there would be enough meat on the caps for a bearing. I just hate to think if for any reason a cam went bad and caused Journal damage when it did there would be no repairing it you would have to buy a head. And even after 100,000 miles I would still rather buy bearings than a head. I have rebuilt 50s and 60s Triumph heads with 3 times that on it and I just don't see that happening with our bikes.
I agree with you, it just seems like that's the trade off for overhead cam performance VS push rods.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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