 my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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ok i've been stewing over this for a while and here it is,i think Victory has to have the stupidest marketing strategy ever!why would you try to be the other american brand and price your bikes in direct competiton with harley?if people are going to spend $17,000 they are going to buy a harley.period.what victory should have done is built smaller engine bikes priced to compete with the japanese manufacturers.let's face most people buy shadows and what not because they can't afford a harley.and i'd bet 75% of those jap bike riders would buy an american non harley bike if they were priced competively with the japanese manufacturers.Victory would have been far more successful at cherry picking honda/yamaha/suzuki buyers than HD buyers,period.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I agree, at about 10-11k for a lighter bike maybe 1000ish cc. they would have sold a lot more bikes. They really don't intend to take folks off of Harley though. I am not sure what they have as a business plan. I like my Kingpin though. I find it superior in many ways to the motor company soft tail except it has a very noisy transmission. Looks like maybe you have been looking at them. From 04 on they are very solid bikes. Then there is the Vision. I think they made that to compete with the Rocket as weirdest looking bike in the world 
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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i'm by no means bashing their bikes,some of them do look really cool.i just feel they would benefit from a larger range,they don't have anything to compete with sportsters or the 650-750 range jap bikes.let's face it you get more for your money out of a v-star 650 or a shadow 750 than you do 883.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I was editing as you were typing
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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gotcha,but harley has the same problem,their sportster/entry level range sucks.that's one of the many reasons i love my speedmaster,it's priced in the same range as the sportsters/650-750 range jap bikes but you get so much more for your money.i'm 6ft tall and the sportster is just to small dimension wise for me,and yes i have rode them.unlike my speedmaster which is comfortable as heck because dimension wise it's a bigger bike.harley would also be able to steal buyers from the japanese if they would just improve thier sportster range.oh and that Vegas 8 ball looks awesome!i would definitely take that over anything in the softail or dyna range,but for $13,000 i would rather have a t-bird.if victory came up with something like the vegas in a 800cc-1000cc range that sold in the $8,000-$9,000 range they would definetly have a winner
Last edited by jake13; 07/21/2009 3:18 PM.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Member
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part of the problem is the irrational attachement these companies have to the Vtwin. Its a solid powerplant if you build it the size of a barn, but anytime theyre under say 800cc or so they dont have enough top end for sustained high speed ridin (aka highway runs, which cruisers are built for). To me, the Speedmaster is the ultimate small-block cruiser. And I will commend any company, Jap American or otherwise, that can even come close... tho Im not holding my breath.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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dwulf i'm with you,my speedmaster is the ultimate cruiser to me of any range,i'll be riding it to the end,and if doesn't last as long as i do,i'll park it in the back of the garage and get me another one. 
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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Then there is the Vision. I think they made that to compete with the Rocket as weirdest looking bike in the world
Agreed. I don't know what the ****** is up with that thing.
And is it just me, but do Victory bikes just seem big? Not bulky, just kinda big boned. Never ridden one to know how they handle.
As for trying to steal Harley buyers, I agree thats not happening.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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As for trying to steal Harley buyers, I agree thats not happening.
That's a fact, Harley riders are all about the brand. The only way they'll leave is if H.D. goes T.U.
I'm seriously considering a Kingpin Tour for my next addition.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Quote:
i'm by no means bashing their bikes,some of them do look really cool.i just feel they would benefit from a larger range,they don't have anything to compete with sportsters or the 650-750 range jap bikes.let's face it you get more for your money out of a v-star 650 or a shadow 750 than you do 883.
While I can't see buying an 883 when the 1200 is so much more for a little more cash, I wouldn't say they are worse than a vstar 650. Those things couldn't keep up with a 350 Enfield. I'd rather have a Ridley than a vstar. I don't think much of a shadow either.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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They are very big bikes. Low seat heights but long well planted bikes.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Quote:
Quote:
i'm by no means bashing their bikes,some of them do look really cool.i just feel they would benefit from a larger range,they don't have anything to compete with sportsters or the 650-750 range jap bikes.let's face it you get more for your money out of a v-star 650 or a shadow 750 than you do 883.
While I can't see buying an 883 when the 1200 is so much more for a little more cash, I wouldn't say they are worse than a vstar 650. Those things couldn't keep up with a 350 Enfield. I'd rather have a Ridley than a vstar. I don't think much of a shadow either.
well i guess that's why we ride Speedmasters/Americas because i don't think much of any those bikes either.my point is i think more americans would buy an american bike if there was another american non harley mid range cruiser,because no one wants to buy the girl's bike(sportster).
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Man's Sportster: Right here
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Ok, allow me to stir the pot on the other “American†motorcycle company, Victory.
Victory marketing is very careful to point out that the bikes are designed and assembled in the good ol’ U.S. of A….THAT’S IT!!! The parts on the bike are 90% Taiwan, China, and Japan. So, please lets’ call them what they are, “just another American based company outsourcing our jobs.†Now, I’m not putting Victory down, as they are very careful not to say that the parts are manufactured in the US, but for the price they command, they’re not worth the investment, IMHO. Let’s also recall that Polaris was slipping in the outdoor adventure market and needed another way of increasing their return, motorcycles, when they created Victory. This was not a “let’s produce a great American motorcycle†but more a “let’s increase our profits, which are slipping, and design and assemble an ‘American’ motorcycle that’ll have all of its parts manufactured overseas, so we get the highest rate of return.†Now, with that being said, I have one other point to make.
I agree that an American manufacture needs to come along and make the all American motorcycle line. They need to manufacture everything in the states and produce a LINE of bikes, just as most of the other manufacturers do by producing a standard, cruising, touring and sport bike. Now, if you can do that, with a price tag of 11K, you’re in business. I know hundreds of small machine shops that would jump at an opportunity to start manufacturing parts for the new American motorcycle company. I just need the engineers and draftsmen……oh, and a couple million to get started...any takers?
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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The motors are made in Osceola Wi.
Sheet metal in Iowa and Wisconsin.
Frames in Wisconsin
Closed loop EFI and top end by Cosworth. (Third world England) lol
Brembo brakes and braided lines. (Dang Italians!, Aston Martin Brakes suck too) lol
They all have a lot of different do-dads in them from different places. At least the American Victory is assembled in a factory in America that benefits American workers.
Where is the 90% part made in Asia?
I assume you own a pre-2006 Triumph.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Ah, I knew I would get something on the 90% comment. The information gathered comes from Dun and Bradstreet, coupled with the "Buy American Act" which does not allow for any corporations to advertise their product as wholly American unless over 80% of the products used in the final product are designed/manufactured by American companies or by overseas companies owned by American corporations. And I own an '07 America, which I am well aware is not manufactured solely in Britain, semantics. 
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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But you said that only 10% of the Victory is manufactured in America. You reference Dun and Bradstreet and the Buy American Act.
Please provide particular links. I am not finding it.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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The "Buy American Act" is referenced in the FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulations), Subparagraph 25.2, Marketing Policy, Subpart 10.08 (b)(c)(f), in my 4900 page hardcopy of the FAR. As far as Dun and Bradstreet, you need a license to access the credit data and overseas holdings/expenditures of Victory, once the license is obtained, you should have no problem accessing the information.no problem accessing the information.
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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OK  You have all that and no copy paste function. And nobody else ever called them on it?  Here is an easy one with a short list. What parts are made in America for the Victory?
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Man's Sportster:
Right here
+1 bigbill. I'd like to test ride the XR1200 sometime.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Ay, Ron, I appreciate your: “Believe nothing of what you hear, and half of what you see,†attitude. I am the same way. There are; however, several problems with your request. One, the FAR is held on multiple databases, I suggest you apply for licensing under the Freedom of Information Act to gain 100% access to the business side, and relevant government regulations. Two, are you suggesting I violate Dun and Bradstreet’s licensing program and disclose their information to “prove†Victory’s financials to you? I’m sorry; just don’t believe anything I’m writing here, because that’s not going to happen.  Also, Dun and Bradstreet does not disclose what parts are made where, they simply provide information as to what monies are spent overseas on manufacturing components for their bikes here. Oh, one last thing, what would someone call on Victory? Victory says they’re “designed and assembled†in the USA in all of their interviews and articles. They’re very careful to say that for the reasons I have laid out here. As I learned a long time ago: Let’s just agree to disagree. 
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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As I learned a long time ago, don't make an assertion you can't back up. I agree you are wrong but will leave it alone as meaningless. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Quote:
Man's Sportster:
Right here
+1 bigbill. I'd like to test ride the XR1200 sometime.
in this month's 'THE HORSE back street choppers mag'AUGUST2009
their is great wright up about this bike..
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Ooo, sorry Ron, just me, I'm used to arguing points with a higher caliber of opponent (who can access all the pertinent information).  Tell me, do you still believe in the Tooth Fairy? I ask this because your grasp on reality and the marketing of global businesses seems to be lax. In relation to your grasp on reality, could you please explain why, in all interviews and when you talk with any Victory Salesman, they are very quick to point out that the bikes are assembles and designed in the US, with no mention of where the parts are made? Please, I welcome your thoughts.
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
Man's Sportster:
Right here
+1 bigbill. I'd like to test ride the XR1200 sometime.
not intentionally hijacking this thread
(though i should -- to keep the potential for personal attacks
and infamatory remarks at bay -- guys you are treading toward a lock down.)
but i did ride the "man's" sportster last month and...
allhailthefrenchpress
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I agree that an American manufacture needs to come along and make the all American motorcycle line. They need to manufacture everything in the states and produce a LINE of bikes, just as most of the other manufacturers do by producing a standard, cruising, touring and sport bike. Now, if you can do that, with a price tag of 11K, you’re in business.
here's someone looking to get their machines in the wind: the Ryde story
i have to say their page is pretty lame; so who knows where they might wind up.
allhailthefrenchpress
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Mert, Allow me to respond to your potential hijacking, due to my remarks here. I apologize, to you, the others on the forum and most importantly, Ron. Ron, I'm sorry, I was a over zealous in my responses to you and your remarks. I hope you accept my public apology. 
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Now, if you can do that, with a price tag of 11K,
Now theres the problem. American engineered, American materials,LABOR,marketing.
A task of biblical proportion.
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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No need to apologize to me. I am still waiting for the short list of 10% made in America. Now don't go over 10% cause you know 90% is manufactured outside Made in USA standards.
I didn't call anybody names, you can make up your own name for a person that makes a statement then can't back it up.
Lets see umm the first American part would be
1-
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Quote:
Mert,
Allow me to respond to your potential hijacking
When a moderator does it, it's not called hijacking. 
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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if people are going to spend $17,000 they are going to buy a harley.period.
I think people go for a Victory because they don't want to be lumped into this very large assumption, which is very true a lot of times.
By the way, I'm an engineer looking for a job, so if anyone has a few mill to toss around, I'd be happy to draw up a few parts and even turn a wrench or two 
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Man's Sportster:
Right here
+1 bigbill. I'd like to test ride the XR1200 sometime.
not intentionally hijacking this thread
(though i should -- to keep the potential for personal attacks
and infamatory remarks at bay -- guys you are treading toward a lock down.)
but i did ride the "man's" sportster last month and...
I thought I'd get a response from you on that 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Closed loop EFI and top end by Cosworth. (Third world England) lol
British electrics  ...I dunno...............
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Quote:
Quote:
if people are going to spend $17,000 they are going to buy a harley.period.
I think people go for a Victory because they don't want to be lumped into this very large assumption, which is very true a lot of times.
i do understand why the few who do buy Victory do.however those guys are few and far between.nowadays most of the people spending that kind of money on bikes are RUBs,posers,and yuppies;and those guys love the Harley costume image that Harley is now catering to.here in Dayton, Ohio where i live there is a fairly large weekly bike nite that attracts about 3,000 bikes each week,and out of that lot i usually only see 1 or 2 Victory's.there are two crowds there,the Harley guys,and the ones with jap bikes that wish they had Harley's.man i'm sure glad i bought a Triumph.my cousin has been keeping his softail deuce in my garage(he's going through a bad divorce)and he let's me ride whenever i want,but every time i'm on it i wish i was on my speedmaster.i just don't get the Harley image thing,it's a nice bike but riding is like watching The Phantom Menace,a lot of build up only to be let down.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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Quote:
i do understand why the few who do buy Victory do.however those guys are few and far between.nowadays most of the people spending that kind of money on bikes are RUBs,posers,and yuppies;and those guys love the Harley costume image that Harley is now catering to.here in Dayton, Ohio where i live there is a fairly large weekly bike nite that attracts about 3,000 bikes each week,and out of that lot i usually only see 1 or 2 Victory's.there are two crowds there,the Harley guys,and the ones with jap bikes that wish they had Harley's.man i'm sure glad i bought a Triumph.my cousin has been keeping his softail deuce in my garage(he's going through a bad divorce)and he let's me ride whenever i want,but every time i'm on it i wish i was on my speedmaster.i just don't get the Harley image thing,it's a nice bike but riding is like watching The Phantom Menace,a lot of build up only to be let down.
That was a very intelligent assessment good fellow, and well written ta boot. I too am glad I went 'my own way' as a social statement within the biker community and as a statement to the corporate world that I can make up my own mind without help.... thank you very much.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Parking amongst a lot of Harleys is always fun at a bike night. Especially when you get off your Trusty Triumph as a group of HD riders walk buy. The groups, with older HD riders, usually stop, talk and ask questions about the Triumph.  The crowds with younger riders; however, try to completely ignore the Triumph, sitting in their midst…but I always catch one of them looking!...and I snicker to myself because they’re probably thinking: “I’d like to talk to him about his bike, but I don’t want my friends to see.â€
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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It is aptly named 'Bike' night rather than 'Biker' night for a good reason...  You may now return to your regularly scheduled 'Self-empowerment and Group Think Reinforcement through the Bashing of Others' session.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Parking amongst a lot of Harleys is always fun at a bike night. Especially when you get off your Trusty Triumph as a group of HD riders walk buy. The groups, with older HD riders, usually stop, talk and ask questions about the Triumph.
The crowds with younger riders; however, try to completely ignore the Triumph, sitting in their midst…but I always catch one of them looking!...and I snicker to myself because they’re probably thinking: “I’d like to talk to him about his bike, but I don’t want my friends to see.â€
Right On bro...
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Quote:
Parking amongst a lot of Harleys is always fun at a bike night. Especially when you get off your Trusty Triumph as a group of HD riders walk buy. The groups, with older HD riders, usually stop, talk and ask questions about the Triumph.
The crowds with younger riders; however, try to completely ignore the Triumph, sitting in their midst…but I always catch one of them looking!...and I snicker to myself because they’re probably thinking: “I’d like to talk to him about his bike, but I don’t want my friends to see.â€
that happens to me all the time to,the older riders,you know the real ones,the ones who have been riding 20+ years and been wrenching all along the way,always stop to talk,and the RUBS just walk on by playing biker for the night.it's very sad at 28 years old i'm convinced that i'm the only person under 35 who knows what a panhead is,let alone changes his own oil and works on his own bike.dang my generation is freakin lazy!
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Re: my problem with Victory Motorcycles
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Ha, Jake, I'm 29! I guess that makes two of us!
"It doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you're out there."
- Hells Angels President (Philadelphia Chapter)
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