Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Helmets and Gear Helmets vs Looking Cool

Peaked out the window at lunch here at work, and saw a friend adjusting his "dew rag" to look cool, before he took off for lunch. This guy just bought a used VL600 so he could save on gas to and from work. A real newbie. This is his first bike, that I know of. He has 2 great kids and a lovely wife. How do I tell him to wear his d%#* helmet w/o sounding like a Helmet Nazi? Maybe quote some statistics??? I think wearing a helmet should be an individual choice, but in this case it may be just a new rider needing some direction. Not long ago I ran in to a fireman who asked me if I wore my helmet.I told him always. He said he had recently worked an accident involving a Victory, where a rider had died and might have survived had he wore his helmet.

Get that fireman and any of his fireman/paramedic buddies together with your friend and just have them talk about the horror stories without telling any of them that your friend does not wear a helmet.

My cousin is a paramedic and he could go on for hours about the bike crashes he sees.....

I just try to lead by example by always wearing my helmet and jacket no matter what the weather is like (hot, cold, wet, dry). My helmet and jacket have vents which help as long as I'm moving. One of my brother-in-law's friends saw me pull up on a really hot day with all my gear on and called me 'Mr Safety'. I just shrugged, smiled and said 'Yep, that's me.' I've been down before and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Can you talk someone into wearing a helmet that really doesn't want to? Probably not, without doing the equivalent of dragging a smoker through a cancer ward. Newbies tend to either think they're bulletproof or they're going to die at any moment and act accordingly - I'd say your friend is of the bulletproof type. Maybe you can arrange to be putting on your helmet when he's putting on his dew rag and casually mention how cool his wife'll think he looks with his brainpan all sunlit, then smile sweetly and ride off into the sunset.

Matt

I doubt he thinks he's bulletproof, I think it's an ego thing like he said, trying to look cool! I can't stand it... all the crizzap people go thru for "the look". Get over it! It's life or death!! That being said, it's also your choice!

I recently read an article that said people don't respond to the negative very well and that what you should do is speak about the positive effects of change. I guess that would equate to telling your friend how nice it would be if he were around to see his kids get married instead of telling him what the remnants of his head will look like if they were scattered about the asphalt. On the other hand, I'm a graduate of the School of Hard Knocks w/ a Doctorate in Life Lessons. I figure that if you sneak up on the dude and wack him about 3/4 strength on the back of his head with a rubber mallet, he may get a good idea of what a solid head bashing might feel like. So, my suggestion is to tell him how nice it would be to go to the wedding, and while he's contemplating the mental picture - WACK HIM!

You have to wonder. I wouldn't go around the block without a full helmet. I've only been riding for 40 years so I don't know everything. Last year on a long ride to Dallas I met up with a couple of friends I grew up with, riding and racing in the 70's. Was shocked that they didn't think wearing a helmet was that big a deal. They're smart, family guys, you know... boomers like me. It was a let down. Guess I just thought anyone I would call a friend would at least know enough to wear a helmet. Well... one rides a HD with a doo rag, but the other rides an old Madura for crissake!
Have to hand it to the sport bikers! Whatever else you may think of them, haven't often seen one ride without a helmet.

You guys are probably right maybe just do what I always do, wear my helmet when I ride with him and try to lead by example. Maybe put a few newspaper articles with mc casualties discretely on his desk. But I do like your idea, Pipedr. I'm going to borrow a mallet or maybe I can find a good ol 2x4 if the other methods don't work

Hey! I gotta tell ya Barry!

Whit a name like SPAZIANI, youse should like know that maybe that term..."WACK HIM"...means som'um to certain udda people diff'rent den wha chu may mean here!

I mean...a guy could like get da wrong idea! Capece?!!

Dwight

Then there's those of us who look better with fullface helmets, with a very dark tint to the faceshield!

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Then there's those of us who look better with fullface helmets, with a very dark tint to the faceshield!

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LOL!

I'm a new rider...took the safety course, got my SM two weeks ago, already need to schedule my first service...but I wear my brain bucket.

This goes back to me being a somewhat competative cyclist for the past 18+ years. I used to try and be cool and go helmetless. For no particular reason, I started wearing one. It saved my arse...err, brain...a few times. The head hitting a curb at 20+ mph is probably not a good thing without a helmet on.

I'd opt for the positive reiforcement route...encouragement, checkin' out different helmets with your buddy, etc.

Good luck. In the cycling world, there are gazillions of anti-helmet advocats...their illogical reasoning cannot be broken.

Brad

There was a time when helmets were the exception on the road and many of us put many miles in the wind before mandatory helmet laws. It wasn't a matter of being cool. The helmet has saved some bacon over the years, but I'll wager cool heads and defensive riding have been a bigger factor in keeping those of us that have seen it both ways alive than have helmets. I use a helmet now and more than likely always will. Not by choice, but due to a law and that's the crux of the issue. It should be a choice, not a mandate. You can't save me from myself forever.

full face with tinted/mirrored lens is consistent with lady bird johnson's beautification program.....

Helmets are law here so I always wear one. But I reckon I'd wear one even if they weren't law.

Having said that I reckon each to his own. It aint your head so if the rider don't want to hear it after the first time you tell him/her then you should back off.

One thing has not been mentioned.
If the guy is a new rider he may not know much about riding gear. I remember how uncomfortable a cheap helmut can be, and even though price is not the sole factor determining a helmuts wearability I have yet to try on a cheapie that did not give me a headache.

So that being said make him aware of some of the better brands and the choices availible, Full Face, Modular, 3/4, etc.

Statistics show that there is little difference, but safe riding practices without the distractions and weight of a helmet has a slight edge.
For an inexperienced rider, the reactions needed for safe riding have not yet been developed, and a lid is usually a good thing. For experienced riders, do what you feel most comfortable with because it makes less difference than you might think.

I rode for years without a helmet (and have the hearing loss to prove it). That all changed when I took a full grown pheasant in the face at about 70 mph.

Rocks, bugs, bees, and road jam never accomplished what one little 6 pound bird did...

I bought a helmet

I wear mine. Feel naked without it. All the statistics in the world are great, but no two situations are the same (is your head turned when you get hit? Did you flinch? Did you get hit with debris? etc). Stats are are often compiled from controlled tests in "ideal conditions" which is an engineers favorite because they simplify things. No such thing as ideal in the real world.

I had a friend get hit in the shoulder by a small bird once. Made quite a mess!!!

I had a little incident yesterday when I hit a patch of sand at around 20-25 mph, washed out front and rear, first thing that hit the ground was my face, or I should say my face shield at left eye, nose level, did not touch the helmet at all. I always ride with a full face helmet and always will. I can only imagine the face, head damage with a half helmet or even a 3/4 one. Of course I used to ride with no helmet, started riding in 1952...there were no helmets then, except WW 2 'tank' ones with holes in the top and a leather chin strap. Helmets may be hot and restrict vision, but I will always wear a full face.

There are people who review all the facts, interpret them as they see fit, and decide that they don't need to wear a helmet. I can buy that, even if I disagree with it. For them the mindset is a lot like religion - they have faith they're making the right decision for them.

Then there are people who don't wear a helmet, without any consideration of the risks involved, because they want to look cool. Those people are friggin idiots. Those kind of people probably believe everything they see on the evening news, too. There's no reasoning with them.

Spring must be near if we're thrashing the ol' helmet argument again. Must mean we've run out of fresh topics...

BTW, what's the best oil to use in these bikes??

heheheh....

Hummm? Fresh topics or fresh oil? I have a container of Brent's finest sitting in the garage. Waiting for a bike to pour it into.

JH

HELMET LAWS SUCK

Getting cabin-fever here too. We could always debate AVGAS 110, premium or mid-grade again....

Oh, the helmet debate! Laws are, or at least should be, passed to protect you from me; not protect you from yourself. I don't wear a helmet unless I'm in some silly state like Washington that requires it. And before all you guys jump on the bandwagon about firemen and cops who've seen all the M/C accidents where a helmet would've saved them, blah, blah, I was one of those cops for 13 years in Seattle (3 of 'em as a motorcop) and saw all that stuff, too. Big deal. Yes, it was tragic. Yes, it was sad. But, the bottom line is that it is your life to live or die as you see fit. If you don't want to wear a helmet, get in a wreck, and either die or end up a permanent member of the 'Honda ward' leaving your family destitute, then shame on you. And, don't expect the taxpayer to pay for your hospitilization and your family's welfare. That's what I like about Texas; you can go sans helmet, but you better have the insurance to cover yourself. Same with seatbelt laws; 13 years and proud to say I never wrote a ticket for it. And, please spare me the 'its for the greater good' argument. Government can't even balance their checkbook. How do they know what's supposedly good for me? Everyone is so quick to say how 'good' a law is because it is "good for me and will save my life?" All this does is foment the already prevalent and growing attitude of, government knows what is best for you thereby absolving you of personal accountability. Whew, I'll get off my soapbox now.

i am not against helmets and with or without a law i would wear one on long rides
what i'm against is enforcement the rider should decide
in gibraltar as in all of europe we have to wear a helmet and when we buy one we pay a tax on top of the price of the helmet
helmets worn on a building site is exempt from tax yet biker helmets are not we have arguments with the government but they won't budge
it's only 6% but if it is law to wear them why should there be a tax on top of it
helmet laws as the seat belt law is nothing to do with safty
in the UK helmet companies were complaining about low sales ministers had shares in these companies and was not making money companies like griffin davida ect so how do we get more revenue inforce a helmet law same happened with seat belts
governments don't care about your safty just their pockets
the problem was japan germany and italy was making better quality products so people bought arai shoei agv thus the british helmet producers still went bankrupt
yes i know davida still make helmets but compared to what they use to produce they are a cottage industry now
the others have all dissapeared
don't get me wrong helmets have there uses but i feel the rider needs to decide not some suit and tir in parlament

i use an ab-sailing helmet for the bike and the police accept it
well they don't know it is a fibre one and looks like the yank novelty helmets you can buy
i'll post a pic of it in photopost

Hey Roy, while I appreciate your outlook one things, and I really do, let me just quote the title of the post again

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Helmets vs Looking Cool

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I think you make your decision on personal preference, but I just wonder how many people out there make it based on what they see as being cool on TV. And if they make THAT decision, what ELSE are the deciding based on TV (or whatever). A 1000cc sport bike as a "starter bike"? See what I mean? Like I said, I agree with your outlook on the laws, protect me from you, and that's it. I mean do we REALLY need a warning on a coffee cup that says "caution, contents hot"?!?

benny you are correct to a point
if you've never had a bike and just passed your test i think that person should not ride an R1 with turbo and nitros it could be a handful
basically true bikers know what they are doing some so called bikers would ride around with no lights brakes or safety features on their bikes bald tires is one well most are walking or in cars cos they don't have it in their blood in other words they just had the biking fad
i think a lot of us are bikers to the bone
this does not mean that a born again is any less a biker some have had to hang up their leathers due to families lack of cash ect but there are those who rode cos everyone did the true bikers keep riding and the ones who come back to it know their limits

OK I have to put my 2 cents worth in on this. First I live in South Carolina where you do not have to ware a helmet. So if you don’t want to ware one more power to you, but I think you should have to pay the higher insurance not me, and I think if you get heart or killed do to a head injurer you and you family should have to pay all of your bills not me or my insurance company.

I have been riding for 36 years now and have always wore a helmet, and started wearing a full face one when I was 7. But this story from about 5 years ago reminds me why I never ride with out one.

It was about 3pm on Christmas Eve when a guy in my hometown was riding home from work He was stopped at a stop sign 3 blocks from home. In this part of town the speed limit is 25mph. An 80something year old lady was coming to a stop behind him and hit his rear finder. She did not run over the bike or him she just knocked him over. He was not wearing a helmet and hit his head on the curb. He was dead before they could get him to the hospital. That day 2 little kids who were both under 10 at the time lost there father. You now have to think about what Christmas is to these kids is it a time of joy or is it a reminder of when there father died.

That's why I wear a helmet when mountain biking or road biking. More worried about getting knocked into a curb or something than actually crashing at speed.

HeliPilot

I agree with you completely; still wish you would wear a helmut.

I wear my lid when I feel like it. Its more confortable on long high speed rides and practical in a city atmosphere where a low speed accident my happen.

The problem with lid statistics is the application of the event and assumption. You can say anything you want with statistics. Closed head injury deaths are the leader in low speed accidents on bikes. If a helmet was not used in any death they treat it as a helmet related, avoidable death. A death from the broken neck if a helmet is used would not be blamed on the use of the helmet.

In any event, its a free choice. My question is more broad. Why with little folks at home is he biking anyhow? Is it a poverty thing? Helmet or no helmet, a bike is way more dangerous than a car. Its all a choice. Its his choice. I am sure he knows helmets exist and why.

This is the age old question... safER than whatever. Like folks who say SUV's are safER than cars. BAH!! I tend to agree that bikes can avoid accidents better than cars (which is why I prefer driving a small car to a large one, more agile), but I also think more OF the bike accidents result in injury than a far. But then again that is IF you get in the accident. All this demonstrates is the inherent flaw in ANY statistic!! The IF factor.

Since my radical statement that bikes are more dangerous than cars have been trying to do some research. It appears, I know its such a rare case, that I may be wrong.

It looks like in urban areas you are about 1 in 17,000 odds of being hit by a car while in a car. On a bike it appears to be 1 in 89,000. So, you may be 5x less likely to be in an accident if on your bike. In most cases this is attributed to the overall agility of the bike.

The qualifier is (sudy in Melbourne) experience and vehicle maint. 30% of the bike accidents are single vehicle. 30% of them have poor maintenance on their bikes and a lack of experience.

Watered down the big topic at hand. If you are hit in a car you have a 1/1750 chance of dying. On a bike 1/222. So you are 5x more likely not to crash with your bike but 8x more likely to die if you do.

Greybeard and others are right. Stats on helmets are so very limited one wonders if there is anything credible out there. I think helmets are not worn to be cool, both image and temperature.