 When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,806
Learned Hand
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OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,806 |
Ok you get to choose which dealership to close
Dealership one, number one in the county high customer rating profitable the only dealership that is ahead of last year takes every car that the car company wants,lots of cash
90 years in the same location
Dealership two, bank will not release cars till deal is done low customer rating 0 cash, down over 80% over last year, ownership trying to sell store
ok which one do you send a letter that they are closing???
which one would you pick to stay open?
Chris
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, and Glory last forever.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Does it really matter? I wouldn't take a car from a company in bankruptcy unless they gave it to me. The gov't is just wasting our money. GM is dead.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
I don't agree that GM is dead. But it still boggles my mind that such a GIANT corporation can be so badly mismanaged as to fail. And I am not so sure, in my paronoidal/cynical mind set, that the whole thing is possibly just a corporate, high financing way to milk the tax payers out of some free money.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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GM's destruction was brought about by....UAW......
The union did em in.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Uh huh! THAT'S it, alright. Mismanagement, systemic short-term thinking by G.M.'s "Deciders", the "Bean-Counters" purchasing obscure foreign brands in efforts to increase G.M.'s worldwide market share and making THAT a corporate priority instead of updating and upgrading their core product over a shortened timeframe, and allowing said "Bean-Counters" in effect to take over the operation from the "Car Guys" some 40 years ago, just AS, I might add, the first "Gas Crisis" hit America and caught G.M. and indeed ALL of Detriot with their collective pants around their ankles and thus allowing the Japanese to get their foot in the door, well....yeah suuuuuure, THOSE issues had absolutely NOTHIN' to do with sowing the seeds of this whole mess today. (nope, not at all!...and yep, "it's ALL the union's fault", alright!!!)  (oh and BTW...if anybody wants to debate me about this here, I'm sorry but I KNOW I'd pretty much be talkin' to a friggin' brick wall, and tryin' to get you to understand that EVERY "automobile player" had a hand in this mess and NOT JUST the friggin' unions, well, because I don't particularly like talkin' to "brick walls", THIS will be my only input in the thread...so...toodle loo, folks!!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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When playing the blame game, go for the trifecta; government, management, and the union all bear responsibility in the demise of the American auto industry. Those here who are of the "Government is Our Friend" mindset can do as they like...
I will support FORD!
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Don't forget the American consumer there Leno.
The market will produce what the people will buy. Of course Madison Avenue has perfected the techniques of "encouraging" people to buy what they don't need.
Of course it's all a house of cards as evidenced by the current situation.
The time comes when they won't come to what you build.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
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GM is just a pension and healthcare provider that just happens to produce automobiles. That's all it's been for 40 years. There are more retired GM workers collecting than actual workers. The TARP money is gone and more will follow. The secured debt holders, that includes non UAW pension funds, were told to go pound salt. Of course the gov will only be involve for a short time, right? Remember when Nixon said AMTRAK subsidies would only last 3 or 4 years.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Consumers are indeed the final arbiters, however their effect is limited to after-the-fact end user purchases. (C'mon, who seriously considers American consumers sentient after the long run of America's Funniest Home Videos?) Madison avenue is the reason that I decided 30 years ago that I would never wear or display any manufacuters logo on anything I own. I debadge a vehicle as soon as I get it home. 
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
(C'mon, who seriously considers American consumers sentient after the long run of America's Funniest Home Videos?)
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Chris,
Beyond the clatter below your post I get the impression that your dealership is the one closing down. If that is the case, I'm really sorry to hear that. Jobs aren't that easy to come by these days. Best of luck to you and I hope things turn out for the best.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,438
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I made a long post in reply to Mr. Dwight. Bottom line is that he completely and entirely disowns any ownership of this problem/solution to unions as long as his union pension keeps paying out. God Bless Socialism! God Bless Government Motors!
The constitution is but a guide to live by. Change is simply acceptable as long as a plurality, in a moment of time, is conceded by a political majority.
Ride On!
Airguy
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You gotta' be smart to be lazy(and get a job done)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I made a long post in reply to Mr. Dwight. Bottom line is that he completely and entirely disowns any ownership of this problem/solution to unions as long as his union pension keeps paying out. God Bless Socialism! God Bless Government Motors!
The constitution is but a guide to live by. Change is simply acceptable as long as a plurality, in a moment of time, is conceded by a political majority.
(geez...in Al Pacino-speak..."They keep pullin' me back in!!!") 
Nope! Sorry Keith! I invite you to RE-READ my above post! I NEVER SAID(and people wonder why I uppercase so much friggin' stuff around here!  ) that the unions had no hand in all this mess.
(OH! and one more thing...since when exactly did unionism and socialism become synonymous?...oh, wait a minute Mr. Brick Wall, never mind...I'm goin' back to not replyin' to stuff that makes no sense again...sorry...oh, and toodle loo AGAIN, dude!!!)
OH! AND CHRIS(there I go usin' that friggin' uppercase again, huh?!..well THIS TIME it's 'cuz I want Chris's attention here )...Like Deon said, if your question here was a subtle way of saying that your dealership is one of those that they're closing, then I TOO am sorry to hear that, and I TOO wish you the best of luck and hope things will work out for you in the future! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
G.M.'s "Deciders", the "Bean-Counters" purchasing obscure foreign brands in efforts to increase G.M.'s worldwide market share
But, that is in keeping with the GM theme. That's how they got their start, gobbling up obscure domestic brands. Buick was nothing to write home about until Walter Chrysler reorganized that division. They finally gave up on Oakland and reorg'ed that into Pontiac. They bilked Ransom Olds out of Oldsmobile. Chevy is an interesting story. The board was alarmed at what they considered reckless acts and fire Durant. So, he drummed up some backing from the DuPont family, bought Chevrolet, and used it to quietly buy up GM. So, for a couple of weeks until Durant reorganized it, GM was a division of Chevy.
I never thought much of GM engineering anyway. Chevy didn't have a real pressurized oil system untill 1954, and their V8 had a serious problem with tossing rocker arms because the pressed in rocker stands came out. The 331 Cad V8 produced some 20 less HP than the Chrysler 331. The Olds 303 needed a 4 bbl carb to make the same power as the 276 DeSoto with a 2 bbl. Corvair was a disaster, as was the Bent driveshaft Tempest.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Chevy didn't have a real pressurized oil system untill 1954
And their first-year V8s (265 ci) didn't have an oil filter.  None of this is what put them under, though. They're in bankruptcy because the demand for new cars is way down. That's because of the credit crunch, the result of mortgage lending to unqualified borrowers, borrowers who in turn saw their net income decreasing over the last twenty years because the West can't compete with Asian prison labor. Unfortunately, and despite many calls from folks who understand this, the current admin has now nailed the window shut in terms of taking a stand to reverse it.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
since when exactly did unionism and socialism become synonymous
They became synonymous when the gov't forced employers to allow organizing on their own property and to sit at a
bargaining table rather than fire malcontents. I'm a big fan of unions, in fact, but not under these circumstances. And then there's the fact that gov't employees who strike can go to jail. Do as we say, not as we do. Ba$tards.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,194 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,194 Likes: 56 |
The problem arises with unions when they lose touch with the workers they are suppose to represent and become too big. Like in the case of GM I feel that they protected the workers right out of a job.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I hope all turns out well for you Chris. If yours closes, I'll keep a good thought for you that a new & better door will open for you.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
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The bail-out was about the UAW guys. If GM failed without the Govt. bail-out then the UAW would naturally be fired by the receivers because all contracts on the current table at the time of the bankruptcy would be void. With the govt. in the game calling the shots their supporter, the UAW, gets to still be a player. D.C. knew GM was dead last year. Its all about the union and saving those big union guys that wrote the big checks for elections. It has not one thing to do with workers. The dealers closed will be, for the most part, white republicans who did not support the incumbent in that area. Like the old days, support me in this war and I will give you a castle, even if it used to belong to somebody else. Do not ever think the govt. is stupid. They are not! They just don't care about you. They are lining their pockets and the pockets of their friends at your expense. This is not a new thing, just on a grand scale these days. It started with Mr. Paulson saving his own bank first, and Mr. Cheney hiring his old firm with no bid policies by the way, not the current guys. The current guys learned a great deal watching the parting out of a country from the sidelines. The "New Deal" is a bad deal for all but those on the inside. In ten years there will be a new batch of billionaires getting awards for their great business leadership. All will forget it started here with redistribution.  I will go sit with Dwight now.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,438
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,438 |
Quote:
(nope, not at all!...and yep, "it's ALL the union's fault", alright!!!)
yep, mr. brickwall here saw no sarcastic, underhanded comments about unions there at all. nope, not a single reference.
by the way, i was not equating socialism with unions. it was more a statement on the government owning a means of production within its own nation. i am so very sorry and will further ensure that in future posts that i separate random thoughts on a stupid internet forum into a properly structured and organized compilation of paragraphs so the more simple readers will be able to separate the intent of the author.
wow! i did that all without a single letter in caps. i certainly hope all you simpleminded folk out there could undrstand the point i attempted to make there.
mr. brick "i am sorry i do not see the light"wall, signing off!
Ride On!
Airguy
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You gotta' be smart to be lazy(and get a job done)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I don't care what you all say. After the initial bankruptcy procedings and they GM gets back to business again, I am going to buy 500 shares of GM stock at $.50 to $1.00 per share and in 4 or 5 years when it gets back up to $30 or $40 I will make at least $15,000 and buy an new bike and pay off some of my mortgage. I have already talked to my neighbor who is a stockbroker. He is going to let me know when the stock is for sale again. GM IS NOT DEAD. American autos are now equal with the rest of the world's cars as far as quality. I own a 08 Ford and I'm proud they did not take bailout money, but GM will come back. I missed it the first time in the 80's when Chrysler stock sold at $2 per share and then went back up to $50 or so when Lee Iaccoca (sp?) paid back the government loans and the K car and mini-vans brought them back from the brink of destruction. I am not missing this opportunity. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
G.M.'s "Deciders", the "Bean-Counters" purchasing obscure foreign brands in efforts to increase G.M.'s worldwide market share
But, that is in keeping with the GM theme. That's how they got their start, gobbling up obscure domestic brands. Buick was nothing to write home about until Walter Chrysler reorganized that division. They finally gave up on Oakland and reorg'ed that into Pontiac. They bilked Ransom Olds out of Oldsmobile. Chevy is an interesting story. The board was alarmed at what they considered reckless acts and fire Durant. So, he drummed up some backing from the DuPont family, bought Chevrolet, and used it to quietly buy up GM. So, for a couple of weeks until Durant reorganized it, GM was a division of Chevy.
I never thought much of GM engineering anyway. Chevy didn't have a real pressurized oil system untill 1954, and their V8 had a serious problem with tossing rocker arms because the pressed in rocker stands came out. The 331 Cad V8 produced some 20 less HP than the Chrysler 331. The Olds 303 needed a 4 bbl carb to make the same power as the 276 DeSoto with a 2 bbl. Corvair was a disaster, as was the Bent driveshaft Tempest.
Well, some good AND interesting historic points made there, GB.
(...but, I guess you know that when YOUR favorite brand Chrysler stopped puttin' torsion bar suspensions AND push-button automatic transmissions on their cars, THAT'S when THEY headed down the Road-to-Ruin, RIGHT?!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,335
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,335 |
Chris,
I remember talking with you at the GA Rally a couple of years ago. I hope GM isn't that short sighted, and closes a well managed & one of the few profitable dealerships.
I went into my locale Dodge dealership a couple of weeks ago, and learned that they are not being forced to close. I talked with the service manager, and he said Chrysler decided which dealers to close based on their past performance.
In the long run retaining a dealership that will be out of business in a couple of years, due to poor management, won't help any car company.
Dwight and Airguy. You are both right, and at the same time wrong. Keep at it, eventually you might figure it out.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Disaster for Chrysler was certain when the top of the line New Yorker was powered by a little 318, for the first time since 1928, there was a US market Chrysler powered by a 4 banger, and their only inline 6 was one originally developed by AMC.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Ok you get to choose which dealership to close...
Umm, the one that donated to my political opponent is history and the one that donated big $$$ to my candidate gets all the business.
Just wondering... 
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Oh and BTW, GM will be back, the new owners (Govt.) will insure it. First, they will buy for their own fleet (your money again), then we will be "encouraged" to "upgrade" to the new product that they've decided we want - or must have for our own good. If we don't agree quickly enough, the "cost" of keeping our large cars will become prohibitive. Fed taxes on fuel, State taxes on fuel and then County increases on licensing...
Yep, I'm cynical (but I will be in line to buy a piece of the new GM).
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I missed it the first time in the 80's when Chrysler stock sold at $2 per share and then went back up to $50 or so when Lee Iaccoca (sp?) paid back the government loans and the K car and mini-vans brought them back from the brink of destruction. I am not missing this opportunity.
I don't remember all the details, but I had a friend who retired as a result of his Chrysler investment back then. He was in his late 20's!
I can't say I thought he was nuts for buying, but I sure didn't join in. Hindsight is 20/20.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I don't remember all the details, but I had a friend who retired as a result of his Chrysler investment back then. He was in his late 20's!
Exactly. Same situation, different company. But I'll be in my late 50's when I hit it big. Bummer 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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It will be interesting when the Gov't offers a Tax credit to someone who buys a GM (since they own it) and not a Ford. It's not as far-fetched as it seems...
ArGee
14 Thunderbird LT
Wasn't sure if Red or Black was faster, so I got a Red & Black one...
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Someone at work told me they are offering tax credits for people buying any new American Car. Is that true?
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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eh, the problem is that the feds are gonna make 'em build cars that nobody wants... no matter who owns them.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Went by the Jeep dealer Wednesday and looked at Compass for my wife. When I passed by yesterday it was a ghost town. No life or cars to be seen.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21 |
Your stock in the car companies is a very good idea. In a few years you will be as rich as those who had the same idea with AMTRAK. This subsidized orphan has done so well since it was too big to fail. The post office is in trouble too and they also charge for their products.
Once the taxpayer IV goes in you stay on life support. That is just the way it is. In the 80s they were guaranteed loans to Chrysler by banks co-signed by the Fed. The taxpayer never paid a dime. Chrysler paid the loans off.
A whole different animal.
Please don't invest the grocery money on it.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Okay. I will buy Ford stock then, at $5 a share. They just introduced the 41 mpg 2010 Hybrid Fusion rated better then the Camry Hybrid, have a redesigned state of the art Taurus waiting in the wings for this summer, and will be bringing the European Ford Fiesta over here in early 2010 so I know their stock will go up. Plus they have turned down bail out money and can't be told what to do by Uncle Obama
Last edited by PES; 06/05/2009 6:32 PM.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21 |
Now that is a great idea! I did too.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Posts: 533 |
Quote:
Okay. I will buy Ford stock then, at $5 a share. They just introduced the 41 mpg 2010 Hybrid Fusion rated better then the Camry Hybrid, have a redesigned state of the art Taurus waiting in the wings for this summer, and will be bringing the European Ford Fiesta over here in early 2010 so I know their stock will go up. Plus they have turned down bail out money and can't be told what to do by Uncle Obama
+1
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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The grocery money is secure.  With all their high profile intervention, the administration cannot now allow GM to fail. If B.O. really doesn't want to be in the car business (like he claims), he'll have to make sure it becomes an attractive investment for somebody to take on. That's what I'll be watching for. And I agree that Ford is well positioned and should also do well - as long as they're not penalized for being self sufficient during this time of "great crisis". USPS is still a quasi-govt agency, but with a mandate to be self sufficient (no tax dollars). It's not quite ready to really compete in an open market. That too is changing though.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Oh yeah another thing I just heard on the news yesterday. GM has sold their design of the Hummer to the Chinese. The military Hummer is our #1 vehicle for the armed forces. It replaced the jeep. What... we are going to buy our Hummers from the Chinese now, who just happen to be our biggest military rival. That just makes me furious. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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GM merely bought the rights to use the Hummer name and profile on their ridiculous GM chassis based urban status coaches (H2, H3, H3T). The Hummer H1, which was very close in design and performance to the original HumVee, was jointly produced by AM General and GM in very limited numbers until 2006.
The real deal HumVee is still made by AM General.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 232
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 232 |
Quote:
Okay. I will buy Ford stock then, at $5 a share.
Heh, I just sold my Ford shares about 2 weeks ago, bought it back in January when it was trading at $2 a share, sold it at $5.34, made a nice quick 3k.  I thought about holding it some more, but decided not to be greedy..
Rich
ArGee
14 Thunderbird LT
Wasn't sure if Red or Black was faster, so I got a Red & Black one...
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