 New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
Hey folks, I know I hardly ever post here unless it's something important, but figured many might like a techs view on the 1600cc engine I just did the training for.
Once again, it looks llike Triumph engineers have a winner with the 1600 twin that will power the Tbird. This is no Bonnie engine on steroids, and has some nice design features
Starting with the gear box, the new six speed box has straight cut first and sixth gear sets. Second through fifth are conical cut to reduce noise. Between the new gear designs and the belt drive, it makes for a fairly quiet drive line.
They have moved to a hydraulic cam chain tensioner for reasons of quiet operation, and now have an idler gear in the bottom end to run the cam chain, giving a quieter top end. Because of the mass of the engine (800cc per cyl) they have added compression releases to the exhaust cam for quicker cranking and giving it easier starting and less abuse to the battery.
They are running a duel spark for a strong flame front, and emission reasons. As with all the curent Triumph engines, it has secondary air injection, but there's a bit of a twist. With the Euro 3 standards in place, the engine runs so clean, the SAI is non operational. Future virsions of the bike may not have SAI at all, dependant on 30K testing their in the middle of right now.
You might say, how can they release the bike prior to the testing..... They havent. The testing for the standard configured bikes have all been done, and passed. The testing is for the engines that have the big bore kit installed. In another first for the company, triumph will offer a factory big bore kit. The kit will bring the bike up from 85HP to 100, and from 108 to 115 torque. The parts, which will be pistons, pins, liners, cam shafts, gaskets, bolts, and performance air filter will retail for around 900 USD. It will not be a factory install set up, and they estimate the cost to the customer willl be around 2K parts and labor as a dealer upgrade. If the SAI is needed, a quick remap, and the bike will be ready to rip.
The clutch is the biggest Triumph has used to date, even larger then the one used in the Rocket. They had gone to a ratchet type clutch lifter / accuator for an outstandingly smooth pull. Tey are running a 40 amp charging system, so adding all the bull ****** people love to put on their bikes will be no issue.
It's a 270 firing crank, and I was taken back by the mass of the crank on the sucker. It's friggin huge. Some have said that you cant hear the bike with a full face on. They must be friggin deaf. I'd have to say, it one of the best sounding stock exhaust systems Truimph has come out with. No, it's not loud and agressive sounding, but your not going to sound like your on an angry sewing machine either.
All in all, they did a great job with this engine. I also have to give props on the overall package. While they made it a bit hard for the techs to do some of the work on it because of how well they hid dam near everything.
The world wide press gig started yesterday in Spain, so you should be seeing lots about the bike any time now. While I won't be running out to get one, I expect to see lots of used America, and Speedmasters on the market by mid summer.
Cheers !
Last edited by Sightglass; 05/13/2009 7:57 PM.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Thanks Sightglass, great write up.
Mike
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,717 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,717 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Thanks Sightglass, great write up.
Mike
+1 Definitely!
I sat on one last night, it felt pretty light and very balanced for a bigger bike. I think I'll pass on wanting one, although it does look very nice in person.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,931 Likes: 1 |
Brent is working on an aftermarket fin kit for it.
we should do this every weekend!
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,048
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,048 |
Sightglass, thanks for spending the time to write that up!
Good stuff.
Clay
01010100 01110010 01101001 01110101 01101101 01110000 01101000 <3
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
In another first for the company, triumph will offer a factory big bore kit. The kit will bring the bike up from 85HP to 100, and from 108 to 115 torque. The parts, which will be pistons, pins, liners, cam shafts, gaskets, bolts, and performance air filter will retail for around 900 USD. It will not be a factory install set up, and they estimate the cost to the customer willl be around 2K parts and labor as a dealer upgrade.
Do I understand correctly, someone who wants the larger displacement off the floor will essentially have to pay for the smaller displacement parts, and then dispose of them?
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988
3/4 Throttle
|
|
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 988 |
Great write up!  
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517 |
Yes, you understand correct. The bike is delivered with a 1600 motor-the hop-up kit is an add-on at customers expense.
Not like ordering a car where you spec the engine. Trade theparts, sell them back to the dealer (or trade) or e-bay them to the few who will need them in a year or two.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730 |
Quote:
Yes, you understand correct. The bike is delivered with a 1600 motor-the hop-up kit is an add-on at customers expense.
Not like ordering a car where you spec the engine. Trade theparts, sell them back to the dealer (or trade) or e-bay them to the few who will need them in a year or two.
Seems like a load of crap to me. Personally I don't think that you should expect anything less than 100hp out of a 1600cc engine. Then having a "factory" big bore kit that the factory won't instsall...
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,717 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,717 Likes: 5 |
I completely agree on the HP, but man, that torque!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533 |
Has any graphed dyno results been published for the Thunderglide yet?
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
|
|
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
While they made it a bit hard for the techs to do some of the work on it because of how well they hid dam near everything.
That's a shame. One of the things I really like about older bikes is that they weren't ashamed to show off their working parts.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Yes, you understand correct. The bike is delivered with a 1600 motor-the hop-up kit is an add-on at customers expense.
Dang, as though there werent enough reasons already to dislike this machine. That's the worst motorcycle marketing scheme I've ever heard. What a bunch of hooey!
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 86
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 86 |
Quote:
Quote:
While they made it a bit hard for the techs to do some of the work on it because of how well they hid dam near everything.
That's a shame. One of the things I really like about older bikes is that they weren't ashamed to show off their working parts.
This really confirms the old saying : If you can't hide something, give it even more visibility.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
Folks, when you buy a Harley, they don't offer a factory installed big bore kit.It's dealer installed. At least if you have it installed pre delivery, it carries the same 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.
When you go to the car dealer and opt for the larger engine you pay for it. Some of you people really scare me.........
What thay have hiddin is stuff you don't want to see, like the radiator cap, and electrical stuff. You still see everything you normally would.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517 |
Well said. The Thunderbird police are something else. Maybe they can start their own motorcycle company and build the perfect bike. Last I knew you did not have to buy what you do not like, but I missed the part where you're not allowed to say anything good either. I'm SURE I'll get the reasoned reply soon....
We've been in the Powersports business in one form or another since 1964. It never changes yet we never see the naysayers put their OWN capital at risk-they just tell everybody what they should hear.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17
Complete Newb
|
|
Complete Newb
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17 |
Triumph should make a stripted-down hot-rod version with the 1700 kit installed at the factory,call it the Speed Twin.Wonder if the hot cams and tune can be installed on the 1600,would be a lot cheaper than the big bore.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753 |
i think its great they offer a big bore kit. my only problem is that the 1600 should have 100hp and the big bore should bring it to around 115-120
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517 |
Now there is an idea-Speed Twin.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Let's face it, most guys aren't going to spring for a big bore kit. The T-Bird should have plenty of stock HP & torque.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533 |
Quote:
The Thunderbird police are something else.
As opposed to the gushing T-bird fanbois? 
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730 |
Quote:
Folks, when you buy a Harley, they don't offer a factory installed big bore kit.It's dealer installed. At least if you have it installed pre delivery, it carries the same 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.
When you go to the car dealer and opt for the larger engine you pay for it.
A) Triumph is not Harley nor should Harley be used as the business model that Triumph is compared to.
B) The HUGE frickin difference is that when you buy a car at a dealership with the bigger engine in it you don't have to buy the car with the smaller engine, buy the bigger engine, have the dealer install the bigger engine, then try to sell the smaller engine. Bad example.
Quote:
Well said. The Thunderbird police are something else. Maybe they can start their own motorcycle company and build the perfect bike. Last I knew you did not have to buy what you do not like, but I missed the part where you're not allowed to say anything good either. I'm SURE I'll get the reasoned reply soon....
We've been in the Powersports business in one form or another since 1964. It never changes yet we never see the naysayers put their OWN capital at risk-they just tell everybody what they should hear.
I'm not sure where you're coming from but show me ANY industry with no critics. Last I checked no one said you couldn't say anything good about the Thunderbird. Everyone one here has been expressing opinions, which is really the point of a forum. I'm glad you love the new bike, good for you, but there's things that people don't like about it. If you have issues with people expressing opinions that are not the same as yours perhaps a public forum isn't the place for you.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Well, I'm not so sure that Triumph hasn't in the past hasn't OR even presently doesn't "use Harley-Davidson as business model" to some extent.
Remember a few years ago when H-D was under-producing for the amount of interested potential purchasers out there, and the old saw was, "They sell every one they make!"???
Well, hasn't Triumph's rationale for their limited production and the excuse I often hear as to why Triumph doesn't advertise in the mass media(and the cause of our continually hearing the question, "When did they start making those again?" posed to almost every modern Triumph rider out there...and this question comes EVEN from MOTORCYCLISTS!!!) this very same rationale? Unlike, I might add, what the japanese Big Four's production/sales scheme seems to mostly have been over the years.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
When you go to the car dealer and opt for the larger engine you pay for it.
Right. But ya don't have to take the smaller motor home in a bag. 
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Quote:
Quote:
In another first for the company, triumph will offer a factory big bore kit. The kit will bring the bike up from 85HP to 100, and from 108 to 115 torque. The parts, which will be pistons, pins, liners, cam shafts, gaskets, bolts, and performance air filter will retail for around 900 USD. It will not be a factory install set up, and they estimate the cost to the customer willl be around 2K parts and labor as a dealer upgrade.
Do I understand correctly, someone who wants the larger displacement off the floor will essentially have to pay for the smaller displacement parts, and then dispose of them?
 Like days of yore ?
Yenko, Dana, Baldwin, fred Gibb, Dick Harrel, Nash, ... etc. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
Can ANYBODY post a brochure that DOESN"T "PRAISE" the subject at hand ?
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 29
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 29 |
Quote:
Let's face it, most guys aren't going to spring for a big bore kit. The T-Bird should have plenty of stock HP & torque.
Exactly my thoughts.
And if someone does want to go for a big bore kit, then they pay for it.
Isn't that how it has always been done?
So, what's the fuss all about?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517 |
I stand corrected. The new Thunderbird sucks. Thanks for helping me out.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
Quote:
I stand corrected. The new Thunderbird sucks. Thanks for helping me out.
Ouch, that'll leave a mark!
I do not get all the negativity. Don't like, don't buy.
?????
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517 |
I don't either, Pat. You going to Bennington?
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 390
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 390 |
Whereis that little smiley eatin the pop corn..."feelin a lot of love" in this thread...Like it or hate it.....the new bike has certainly created a stir. Not sure about the bike but I like the ruckus it is causing. By the by, when you BB the current bikes, you are left with a sack O parts?? Hang on Dwight, this has some serious pot stirring potential.
Ezcue
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730 |
Quote:
Let's face it, most guys aren't going to spring for a big bore kit. The T-Bird should have plenty of stock HP & torque.
Quote:
Exactly my thoughts.
And if someone does want to go for a big bore kit, then they pay for it.
Isn't that how it has always been done?
So, what's the fuss all about?
Any one know what this is?
If you're unsure I'll enlighten you... It's a supercharged Rocket III engine, and it's not a one of a kind, that's a kit... If there's enough interest in supercharging a 2300cc motorcycle engine that it warrants producing a kit, don't you think that a Big Bore kit for a 1600cc engine might move a few units in the bigger-is-better good ol' U.S. of A.
And the fuss is that it's a Triumph part... If it were a Wiseco kit no one one would be having this discussion but the fact that if you want it you have to pony up the cash for two sets of engine internals from the same company makes one feel like he's being taken advantage of.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 29
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 29 |
I already feel taken advantage of when I paid 13-14.000 in my country for the same bike you paid 8 or 9 grand for. Personally, if I were in the market for a BB kit on the 1600 I wouldn't care if Triumph or Wiseco made it. I would probably go the Triumph way if it also included 2 years warranty as was mentioned above (I don't know if Wiseco offers the same).
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 29
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 29 |
Sightglass,
Thank you for your efforts and a detailed and balanced post.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017 |
And apologies for the guys who don't understand how a business works and basic economics...
Mark
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Hang on Dwight, this has some serious pot stirring potential.
Well SHOOT, Joe!!! Yota already took MY best line in this thing when he said...
Quote:
Brent is working on an aftermarket fin kit for it.
...and so I had to RESORT to talkin' about that "Triumph/H-D Business Model" thing Tim brought up!!!
(and for the life o' me, not only could I NOT find a friggin' joke in THAT, but I couldn't even think of a way to "stir up this friggin' kettle" here with THAT line of talk EITHER, dude!!!!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
No reason for an apology LitzerSki, that's why I mainly stay away from these forums. I posted here because I have quite a few customers with America's that are seriously looking at the Tbird, so I figured I'd just pass along the info. It's easy for people to say what Triumph should do, but don't look at the big picture. They haven't a clue about Euro 3 standards, HP limitations in many countries, noise standards everywhere, and how this bike will be produced almost completely the same for all markets around the world. 48 states will get one bike, and the rest of the world will get the one with a charcole canister. Triumph will save a fortune in manufacturing, which has kept the retail price down on the bike. But why think globally, when you can complain about yet another product that willl surely help Triumph to prosper well into the next decade. People can pick apart my examples all the want. Fact of the matter is, the bike will out preform in box stock configuration 99% of the America, and speed masters on the road that have been modded out. It will toat them, and fat arsed ol ladies around all day long at 90 to 100 mph without straining, or killin the air quality. It will adapt from sea level to the top of Mt Washington faster then you can rid up, and will double cruising distance on a tank full of gas. Now that I think about. I hate this bike. It does everything right, can be hopped up easily,will never be over jetted, and will require less maintanance then any Bonnie engined bike on the market. What a pile of shlitz.......
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Now that I think about. I hate this bike. It does everything right, can be hopped up easily,will never be over jetted, and will require less maintanance then any Bonnie engined bike on the market. What a pile of shlitz.......
Good comeback Pete.
Thanks for the great report. I would already be on the pre-order list if I hadn't of bought a new cage last August. Dang I'm stupid.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 517 |
Well said. I'll stand with my comment that almost no who post have ever put their capital at risk in the Powersports business. Thanks for the report and perspective.
|
|
|
Re: New Tbird mechanical review.
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730 |
I like to think I'm a pretty fair guy and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
All my experience with Big Bore kits, it's something that if you buy the kits and have the work done then you have to pay the labor costs, machine work, and whatever other charges are associated with it, ending with a much larger cost than just the cost of the kit. The way I was looking at it earlier was that you'd have to buy the kit for $900 and have the dealer install it with all the extra costs that I just mentioned earlier...
If that was the case I think it would be bad business for everyone, Triumph would waste money on pistons, cams, and all the other things that got replaced on 1600's that never got to see a mile of road and the customer would have to drop extra cash on labor, and machine work for a "factory" upgrade.
I was just on the Triumph web site using the "create your bike" application and I saw that one of the options was the big bore and that it was $899 total. If that's the case, then I see nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact I like that a lot. If that's the case, I was wrong and I apologize. And if you got the 1600 and decided later you wanted to go bigger there's no reason you shouldn't have to pay the extra labor charges and whatnot. But if it was that you'd have to pay all those costs to have your bike upgraded upon delivery, which may have been my mistake, then I stand by my statement that it would be a load of crap.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
|
|
|
|
|
