 GM
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Oil Expert
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OP
Oil Expert
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I am hearing that it is a matter of weeks before GM declares Chapter 11. I am also hearing that Dodge is very close behind. Sad day for some former pioneers and current American icons, but perhaps, there is a silver lining here?
In Between the Dark and the Light..
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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I read the other day that GM as current owners of our trusty old SAAB are ready to give that part away for "free" to a good home. 
Last edited by piper; 04/22/2009 3:44 PM.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: GM
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Those same drums are beating on the Class8 side. KW, International and Pete are foaming at the mouth to go after the gaping whole that will leave in the municipal truck market. Dodge is super strong with 1 tons and GM suprisingly has a strong following in Class 6,7,8 for counties and state DOT's. One thing is for sure....the times they are O changin.
Ezcue
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Re: GM
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I was reading an article last week that Fiat was looking to merge with Chrysler to share "small car technology" but only if the unions backed off of some of their consessions. The union refused so Fiat told Chrysler to pack sand. Guess unions prefer no jobs at all compared to backing down even a bit. Wow. 
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: GM
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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Quote:
I was reading an article last week that Fiat was looking to merge with Chrysler to share "small car technology" but only if the unions backed off of some of their consessions. The union refused so Fiat told Chrysler to pack sand. Guess unions prefer no jobs at all compared to backing down even a bit. Wow.
I guess it depends on what they were asking them to give up.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: GM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Oct 2007
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Quote:
I guess it depends on what they were asking them to give up.
Staying out of the political side of this...
I was thinking about my uncle who worked for Ames tools for years and every time the union struck for wages, he would say "careful boys, we are only making shovels..." in the end, the market decided that they were indeed only making shovels and they could be made more cheaply elsewhere... even with the same warranty.
I suppose is a little considered truth that collective bargaining is like regular bargaining in that sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.
I know... 
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
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Re: GM
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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Fiat save Chrysler? Isn't that the definition of the blind leading the blind? Daimler Benz (who paid hundreds of millions of dollars for Chrysler and essentially gave it away for nothing to Cerebus to get out from under it) couldn't do it, what makes anybody think anyone else could?
Union leadership will never has and never will get it. They have huge amounts of money and have completely lost touch with the membership and what they are supposed to represent.
Black 04 TBA, AI gone, Freak, soft bags, summer screen, sissy w/rack
I was once on safari and some fiend lost the corkscrew. We were forced to subsist on food and water for many days - W C Fields
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Re: GM
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Joined: May 2007
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Oh , GM . "Government Motors" . That's as political as I dare get here . 
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Re: GM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
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GM was always going chapter 11, but now it's a "controlled bankruptcy", politicised, instead of one filed and referied by a professional Fed bankrupcy judge. Oh! and it only cost us 15 billion.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I hope they can recover, we need the jobs, the union should be reigned in some in my opinion. I know it's a slippery slope but if the japs can build cars here and make money we should be able to as well. I like the new Camaro too , the looks anyway just saw one today.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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If G.M. can get their new car The VOLT out on the market anytime soon and price it right i believe it might do a lot to save their fannies. But ya'll are right, a lot of what is happening has to do with the govt, the union and the cars that they have made. i believe the cars they are makeing today are right on par with the rest of the world and better then some but the union is just asking for to much for their people. i knew a guy that got caught stealing and G.M couldnt fire him because of the union, i knew a guy that got caught doing cocaine on the job and G.M. had to spend thousands on rehab for him and couldnt fire him because of the union i could go on with more stupid stories about G.M ant the union but i think you get it. also these guys are makeing way more $$$ for not doing much then most of us that actually have to work and think for a liveing.  and then when you consider that the govt. with their TAXES,E.P.A, OSHA and every other thing that the big three have to deal with it only makes sense that they dont build what they used to here in the good ole U.S.of A. anymore. i really cant blame them if they want to pack their bags and move someplace where they can build a car and sell it for less that or as much as any other car company does without loseing money.  oh please why did you get me started 
ENJOY!!!!! NEWT!!!!!
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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An employee that breaks the rules should be able to be fired union or no union, pay for drug rehab? Screw that fire his a$$ and let him either use drugs in the gutter or pay for his own rehab, his choice. Maybe he wouldn't use drugs on the job again. Stealing, fired! Pay should be brought in line with the times a smaller pay check is better than no pay check, ask me , I'm there right now and glad for what I am going to be getting even though it is substantially less than I am used to. Seems to me the auto workers union has protected their employees right out of a job, coupled with bad management along with the EPA and OSHA.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Seems to me the UAW wont be happy until all the GMs are made in Mexico
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 529
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Fiat save Chrysler? Isn't that the definition of the blind leading the blind?
Well I never said Fiat would "save" Chrysler. The idea the article talked about was the they would share small car technology, which is what appears most Americans are looking to get into...everyone wants the new Volt right. In fact, part of the merger deal was Fiat would not dump any money into Chrysler nor would it take on any of its debt. Simply share R&D towards a common goal.
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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American companies need to build cars that people want to buy (good performance, styling, mileage, reliability, etc...). It never ceases to amaze me that given our leadership in technology and design that we can't.
Having said that Fords new Taurus is gorgeous. The new Ford Fusion is said to be the best hybrid that has ever been built. So we can do it... I just hope it's not too late.
'06 TBA - Black, AI and Snorkel removed, K&N Drop In, Gutted Stock Pipes, 145/42, 2 turns out.
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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There's been a lot of union bashing lately, but very little is said about the management at the top. A couple dozen division Vice presidents making millions of dollars a year. Why blame the workers at the bottom of the chain? Who was planning, designing and making the decisions that led to the demise of these car company behomoths? Not the schmuck wrenching the wheels on or installing the bits and pieces. I have heard lots of comments about how the assembly line workers are making too much, but almost nothing in the news about the golden boys at the top. Sure, pay the assembly line workers a little less, but make sure you include the wage adjustments at the top to be fair.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: GM
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Lets talk about the cars and trucks first. The Chevys I am selling right now have never i repeat never been better.
They get better fuel economy then honda and toyota (look it up its true) On the quality side they are equal if not better then those cars. Our truck is truly the best,and with the start up problems they had with the new Tundra(bad cams for a start sub quality tailgates)the chevy truck is far better then that. The Chevy Malibu rides better is much better fit and finnish then the accord or the camery. Now that being said lets talk about the media. My best example is a GM car called the Prizm,when it was out consumer reports called it boring under powered and harsh riding all where very true,three months later the Toyota Corolla was reviwed by this same magazine. It was called the greatest smal car on the market,the fit and finnish where great and just the right anount of power, here is the problem, the Great Corolla was a Prizm there where built in the same plant parts where the same,same engine same drivetrain,ony thing different was one had a bowtie.
Now im not saying GM has not done stupid things,but Toyata brings out a truck with bad cams nothing said in the media if GM makes a mistake its front page.
The problems today dont just touch the guys in charge
its the guy who sweeps the floor in the steel mill the sell steal to gm, its the guy who washes cars on my lot that gets hurt,its the girl who fixes burn holes on used cars. There are so many people who touch GM and feed there families because of them it scary.
One last thing Saturn has found a buyer, not one story in the news about that,because its good news.
Now i am not saying go buy a American car because its right. I am saying take a look at what they have to sell try one out have a open mind and maybe you might just take a car or truck with a bowtie home with you
Chris
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, and Glory last forever.
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,194 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,194 Likes: 56 |
Quote:
There's been a lot of union bashing lately, but very little is said about the management at the top. A couple dozen division Vice presidents making millions of dollars a year. Why blame the workers at the bottom of the chain? Who was planning, designing and making the decisions that led to the demise of these car company behomoths? Not the schmuck wrenching the wheels on or installing the bits and pieces. I have heard lots of comments about how the assembly line workers are making too much, but almost nothing in the news about the golden boys at the top. Sure, pay the assembly line workers a little less, but make sure you include the wage adjustments at the top to be fair.
I guess I wasn't clear on that one. I did mention bad management but I meant all the people there should make less and the top dogs making millions should instead be making thousands and putting money into the retirement funds and research and development. I am not talking hundreds of thousands either but maybe around 100,000.
I'm die hard Chevy and GM in general, loved my 71 LeMans Sport, loved my 66 Impala SS convertible, loved my 85 Chevy pick up with the Pontiac 400 in it, Still love my 80 Chevy wrecker. love our P35 GM box truck, love our 96 Chevy Silverado 4X4. The list goes on and if they are still around my next truck will be GM too. All served me well and most had tons of mjiles and eventually were off the road due to rust. Still have the LeMans but it will probably never get put back together. Miss that car.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
YEAH!!! I don't understand all this GM bashing myself! I mean GEEEZ, General Motors has been in the forefront of automotive innovation for YEARS now! I mean, COME ON NOW, folks!!! GM has made some of the MOST BEAUTIFUL and WELL ENGINEERED cars for, well, FOREVER!!! And...AND.... ...What?! What's THAT you SAY???  Ummmmmmmmm...oh yeah. Okay, never mind.  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Lets talk about the cars and trucks first. The Chevys I am selling right now have never i repeat never been better.
They get better fuel economy then honda and toyota (look it up its true) On the quality side they are equal if not better then those cars. Our truck is truly the best,and with the start up problems they had with the new Tundra(bad cams for a start sub quality tailgates)the chevy truck is far better then that. The Chevy Malibu rides better is much better fit and finnish then the accord or the camery. Now that being said lets talk about the media. My best example is a GM car called the Prizm,when it was out consumer reports called it boring under powered and harsh riding all where very true,three months later the Toyota Corolla was reviwed by this same magazine. It was called the greatest smal car on the market,the fit and finnish where great and just the right anount of power, here is the problem, the Great Corolla was a Prizm there where built in the same plant parts where the same,same engine same drivetrain,ony thing different was one had a bowtie.
Now im not saying GM has not done stupid things,but Toyata brings out a truck with bad cams nothing said in the media if GM makes a mistake its front page.
The problems today dont just touch the guys in charge
its the guy who sweeps the floor in the steel mill the sell steal to gm, its the guy who washes cars on my lot that gets hurt,its the girl who fixes burn holes on used cars. There are so many people who touch GM and feed there families because of them it scary.
One last thing Saturn has found a buyer, not one story in the news about that,because its good news.
Now i am not saying go buy a American car because its right. I am saying take a look at what they have to sell try one out have a open mind and maybe you might just take a car or truck with a bowtie home with you
I agree, quality of todays American cars and trucks are very good. Consumer Reports to me are especially biased towards Japanese cars. From what I have read in the automotive press the New 2010 Ford Hybrid Fusion is a better car then it's competiton, Hybrid Camry. It is just selling the Amercian public the idea that the cars are better, that's the tough part. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: GM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 1
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I have allways been a chevy guy threw and threw but not so sure my next purchase will be one.It is the cheap breakable, expensive plastic parts that burns my butt.Take the third door handle on my pickup,I've replaced that four times at a price of about seventyfive bucks a copy,then found one on ebay some guy was makin to replace gm's part for ten bucks.Haven't had a problem since.
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
It is just selling the Amercian public the idea that the cars are better, that's the tough part.
Not as tough as selling someone on the idea that they should buy a car when they don't have a job. That's why GM (and Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, etc.) can't sell cars.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: GM
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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dwight  yet these cars are state of the art 
Chris
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, and Glory last forever.
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Re: GM
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Actually Chris, I was just funnin' a bit there with the Aztek thing. In fact, I've said many times that if that ugly van/SUV or whatever it was supposed to be would've had a Toyota logo on it and nothing else at all changed, it probably would've been a hit with the public for the very reasons you mentioned above: the present public perceptions and MISperceptions about the american car manufacturers' products.
All I can tell is that my 2000 Chevy Silverado which I purchased used a couple of years ago with about 60K miles on the clock, and which I've put about 20K miles since on it, has been one of the best vehicles I've ever owned.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: GM
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Posts: 23,194 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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our 96 Silverado has 130,000 or 140,000 on it now with no major problems. Couple fuel pumps and a starter that's about it except for tires and oil/filters. Getting pretty rusty now though.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: GM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,806
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Trust me dwight the aztek and the 2001 caprice are two cars i could live without. When the fist one got to the dealers we just shook are heads, but your right if they hade toyota on them they would at least had a chance
Chris
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, and Glory last forever.
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Re: GM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
I am hearing that it is a matter of weeks before GM declares Chapter 11. I am also hearing that Dodge is very close behind. Sad day for some former pioneers and current American icons, but perhaps, there is a silver lining here?
Yep, should have sold my GM stock at $50..., $40.....$10....$5.....oh well , it is now $1.70 so I might as well ride it into the dirt ! As long as you hang on to the handle bars there is a chance of saving it...that was my philosophy for my 1000 shares of World Com up till I got the "letter" ....that the fiddle player has stopped playing....use your stock certificates for starting a fire......  confirmed...I'm no financial genius ! 
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Re: GM
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Okay, now the following ISN'T about GM, per se, BUT I'm wonderin' what is DOES SAY about some american cars anyway....
A couple hours ago I ACTUALLY got away from this here keyboard(now don't faint now folks) because I told the wife I'd go pay her yearly registration for her Subaru Outback(and no, if you're wonderin', she ain't a lesbian!!!) at the local AAA office.
However, I hadn't had lunch yet and so I decided to grab a quick hamburger on the the way at the local McDonalds(I know, I know, but I was REAL hungry here, so gimme a friggin' break here, will ya???). And after I drove the Silverado(the weather here in L.A. today is really sucky, and so that's why I didn't take either the Triumph OR the Spyder, FYI) through the drive-thru, I pulled up a spot away from a guy sittin' in his new Chrysler 300(no, I don't think it had a Hemi in it, if you're wonderin' about that TOO!) who I guess had also decided to "slum-it" today and go to Mikey-D too.
And after a couple of minutes, this guy appeared to finish his lousy hamburger and he started his Chrysler up and proceeded to back out of his parkin' spot. BUT, the ONLY problem was that he had evidently driven the front of his car over the concrete stop in front beforehand, and as he backed away the plastic front of his car just STAYED where it was at and it started swinging out from the bottom like it was hinged at the top where it meets the hood!!!
Well, I guess the guy must've heard the sound it made too, and so he stopped and got out of his car, walked to the front of it, looked at what the result was with a mixture of puzzlement and disgust, and then proceeded to push the bottom of the thing back into his car, and then got back in to his car and drove away.
Now, I don't know if this is just as likely to happen to, say, a Camry or any other foreign car, BUT I don't think this says a whole lot about the design of the mounting points for the front end fascia of the Chrysler 300 series IF you ask ME!!!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Quote:
I am hearing that it is a matter of weeks before GM declares Chapter 11. I am also hearing that Dodge is very close behind. Sad day for some former pioneers and current American icons, but perhaps, there is a silver lining here?
Yep, should have sold my GM stock at $50..., $40.....$10....$5.....oh well , it is now $1.70 so I might as well ride it into the dirt ! As long as you hang on to the handle bars there is a chance of saving it...that was my philosophy for my 1000 shares of World Com up till I got the "letter" ....that the fiddle player has stopped playing....use your stock certificates for starting a fire...... confirmed...I'm no financial genius !
$1.70???... Hmmm. If I buy 100 shares for $170 and It goes back up to $50, if the Volt takes off, then I could afford another bike.  Problem is that I heard the Volt is going to be between $35-40K a little above most average families price range. My little scheme may not work. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: GM
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Regardless of quality, you can't have the highest costs and remain the leading producer of anything forever. American cars quality is very good, but if they have to sell at little or no profit even during good times, and at a loss during bad times, they will not survive.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Now, I don't know if this is just as likely to happen to, say, a Camry or any other foreign car, BUT I don't think this says a whole lot about the design of the mounting points for the front end fascia of the Chrysler 300 series IF you ask ME!!!
Odd, it said less about car design than it did about that driver being a functional idiot... IF you ask ME!!!
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: GM
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well yeah...I suppose that too, Leno. However, it still seems somewhat strange that just scraping over that concrete stop would cause the whole front end to lift up and separate from the rest of the car so easily afterward, doesn't it?!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: GM
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Seen the same thing happen on a VW Jetta (my daughters!). It's due to the cheap plastic/rubber nose piece used, and the screws/clips that attach them to the rest of the (metal) vehicle will just rip or tear out given the slightest bit of pull in the wrong direction. I must have reattached that thing 10 times in the year and a half that she owned it, having to fabricate new clips and mounting points each time. I had got pretty good at it by the time she totaled it out Cheers, Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: GM
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: GM
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Now I don't care who you are, that's funny! 
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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