 Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
Is the difference in performance between the newer 865cc engine and the older 790cc version noticable? If I were to buy the Triumph, it would be an '09 because I want fuel-injection. But just out of curiousity, I was wondering if the larger size was significant to any degree.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Nope, not enough that it's really much noticeable, JC.
Depending on their state of tune, both of 'em will give you about 50-55 BHP at the rear wheel in stock form.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
and for an extra 1 or 2 grand, you can bump it up to 70-80rwhp too
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
Roadworthy, how would you do that (bump HP)? I would be interested in more ponies, but never at the expense of reliability or longevity. In all honesty, I'd probably be just fine with the stock version. But I'm surprised that my VStrom actually generates more HP (I didn't look, but I believe it's rated at 65hp). I admit my ignorance on this subject, but I'm going to assume the higher HP out of the VStrom's smaller engine is due to the Vstrom being water-cooled?
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Dave is talking about doing a big bore on it, The 904 kit is pretty easy and in expensive as big bore kits go. Plus it;s made by Wiseco so you know it's top notch.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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I have the 904 big bore kit with a ported/polished head and 1mm oversized valves, and my hp went from 54 to 70 and torque went from low 40s to mid 50s. I am waiting to get my bored out stock carbs delivered, that should add about 5-7hp, and finally I will be getting reground cams to put me up near or over 80rwhp, and I'm hoping to be in the 60 ft lb or better range for torque. Power is money, how much do you want to have and how much do you want to spend? There are many many guys here with the big bore kit, and I don't know of any reliability problems. These motors are pretty much bullet proof. These bikes run much better stock than the numbers suggest, I was very happy with mine in stock form, but I just like to have more power.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
I forgot about the bigbore kit. I have read about those before. If it's reliable and doesn't do anything to reduce engine life, then it sounds pretty darn nice. Always an option, and I guess you could put several thousand miles on the stock engine first before doing anything like that.
Btw, Stainetune claims a 7 to 8hp increase by just adding their slip-on exhaust for the BA/SM. Is this true, or just hype? I had a stainetune on my BMW F650 and liked the sound, but I don't think it did anything to increase hp.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
Open up the exhaust and air intake, and you can get a nice boost in power.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
The bored out stock carbs that I'm waiting on, have shown a 5-6 hp increase on a dyno on a bone stock bike. I will post numbers when I get them, hopefully they get here today. The guy will bore out your stock carbs for right around 300, maybe less, maybe more. I'll keep everyone updated.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
I'm interested in that Dave so please do keep us informed.
I plan on running my bike for 100,000+ miles since I have heard they go that far and farther before I do any rebuilds. Then I plan on doing all the bearings and a big bore once the engine needs to be rebuilt anyway. If I have the money then I'll probably go with a stroker too.
I wonder if the EFI guys could put carbs on those bikes, just a thought for guys like me that like carbs so I can tinker.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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if anything ever happens to my motor, the next build is going to be the 1100cc, no machining the crank or opening the cases, just a new billet cylinder block and pistons.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
OK, here's maybe a stupid question, but to bore out stock carbs, what does it actually mean? What is bored and how? 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
The size of the opening that the air travels through is opened up.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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What he's doing is making the intake side and the manifold side of the carb bigger (I don't know exactly how it's machined), but he has tested them on a flow bench and the stock flows at 199 cfm's and the new bored out carbs showed 234 cfm's. He also does some drilling to the slides, and polishes the slide. I don't know why. The test will be if it feels better, more responsive, dyno numbers...
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
OK, thanks for explaining. Nothing you do on your workbench in the shed...  Can't wait to for the results! Sounds like it's heckofalot cheaper than bigger carbs.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
Quote:
if anything ever happens to my motor, the next build is going to be the 1100cc, no machining the crank or opening the cases, just a new billet cylinder block and pistons.
Is this another aftermarket upgrade option for BA/SM, or is this something you plan to have custom built?
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210 |
Quote:
What he's doing is making the intake side and the manifold side of the carb bigger (I don't know exactly how it's machined), but he has tested them on a flow bench and the stock flows at 199 cfm's and the new bored out carbs showed 234 cfm's. He also does some drilling to the slides, and polishes the slide. I don't know why. The test will be if it feels better, more responsive, dyno numbers...
Making them larger decreases the air velocity is that crucial for carbs? Or does he modify something to increase the velocity?
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Quote:
if anything ever happens to my motor, the next build is going to be the 1100cc, no machining the crank or opening the cases, just a new billet cylinder block and pistons.
Is this another aftermarket upgrade option for BA/SM, or is this something you plan to have custom built?
this is an available aftermarket upgrade. stock stroke, bigger displacement
904 has 92mm pistons, the 1100 has 110mm, I think
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Quote:
What he's doing is making the intake side and the manifold side of the carb bigger (I don't know exactly how it's machined), but he has tested them on a flow bench and the stock flows at 199 cfm's and the new bored out carbs showed 234 cfm's. He also does some drilling to the slides, and polishes the slide. I don't know why. The test will be if it feels better, more responsive, dyno numbers...
Making them larger decreases the air velocity is that crucial for carbs? Or does he modify something to increase the velocity?
I'm not a machinist, all I can do is relay info from him. Maybe it's swirled like the head should be, or the intakes, or whatever he does, but the numbers are there and proven, both on the dyno and the flow bench. For the price, it looks like a very affordable upgrade for carbs, and you know they will fit just like stock! Like I said, I will post dyno numbers soon, I'm expecting delivery on these today, finally, after delays because of the custom intakes he was having machined from billet aluminum.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 95
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 95 |
We can talk about price point. Harley's are way over priced.
I test drove a new sportster and I was not impressed.I could not use all the power it had. The BA I ride is an great handling bike. I don't even get into 5th under 60 to 65 mph on the 2 lane roads. It has plenty of power. The braking is fine. I must have forward controls. The middle weight bike is for me. I am not a big dude, but if the bike leans over at a stop I can pick it back up from a near ground touching position. This thing nadles as well as my old Norton which was a roadracer. This thing does destroy curves. I love this bike. You will to. I ride all day and am not sore and I am 57.
2008 BA, Ageon Blue, roadster shield, light bar. tach, big bags, square engine guard, short sissy with rack. All Triumph parts. No mods.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
Thanks everyone for the great information. I've pretty much decided to drop the Sportster from my list. The Triumph demo days are the 24th & 25th locally, so hopefully I will get a chance to ride both the America and the Speedmaster. Even if I only ride one, I figure they are pretty much the same except for the options that have been mentioned on this thread.
The next step will be to see if I get a decent trade-in value on my Vstrom. I hope so, but I also realize that I might have to sell it first before buying.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Remember they are extremely quiet stock but easy to pop out some baffles.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647 |
Dog is right, they sound like a sewing machine in stock pipes.
06 America 904
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Roadworthy, how would you do that (bump HP)?
On a carburetted 865, the first order of business is to swap the cams. Aftermarket cams such as Thunderbike or even stock 790 cams are needed before anything else will be fully effective. From the rated HP, it looks like the injected version has better cams to start with.
Once the valve timing is corrected (if needed), open up the exhaust and intake for a 12 - 15% power increase. If you still want more, the Wiseco big bore kit will take care of it.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753 |
you actually need to bore the cases for the 1100 so they do need to be split
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
you actually need to bore the cases for the 1100 so they do need to be split
you are correct, sir. my mistake.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 31
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 31 |
i had a sportster 1200 before my america790cc and all i can say is the america is all that i wanted the sportster to be i will be sticking with triumph.Harleys are ok if you dont do long rallys,but thats just what suits me.10 out of ten for my triumph.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
here is a link to my new thread about the carbs, now with pics! http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...ge=0#Post386230
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
here is a link to my new thread about the carbs, now with pics!
http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...ge=0#Post386230
Shameless promoter!  Hey Dave, what ya gonna do with all that extra power?! (Oh god, I'll probably find out if you ride to the midwest ralley with me...) 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680 |
That's right Rich, we will expect lots of photos from you of the back of Dave's helmet way off in the distance.
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,715 Likes: 5 |
hope you have a powerful lens on that camera!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 70
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 70 |
something to consider... Speedies and Americas tend to lose resale value real quick like the moment they are taken off the showroom floor. There are deals abound on craigslist for one of these awesome bikes in the $4-6K range with very little miles on them. I bought my 04 in Oct'06 with 3400 miles for $4800, and nothing wrong, not a scratch. The prior owner even took the liberty to buy D&D pipes for it. All I have spent my money on so far is oil and filters, and a set of panniers and EZ brackets.Oh heay, I bought some of Fast Eddy's Mirrors and stickers too! Way cool and a bargain!
Andy
04 Speedmaster
and missing my '70 TR6R
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 247
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 247 |
All the 1200 sporsters I priced were all over $10,ooo so you'll save as much as any depreciation before you leave the show room floor. Plus if you ride with someone on a Sportster when you get off your Bonne., your friend will always beat you into the restarunt, because you'll always have to field all the questions and complements out in the parkinglot. I think it's called curb appeal
Chip Sciarra "07" America, N.C.Switch Blade windshield, Moto Lights, Tri. Off Road pipes
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmaster
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11 |
done a road test on sportster 1200 custom last week at silverstone harley davidson & that skinny front wheel in my opinion is a nightmare in town/traffic riding & you hit a pothole with it & you will fill ya pants! i also test rode the rocker C & that was the most uncomfortable bike i have ever ridden! the bars are wrong the seats wrong & for a 1500cc bike it was under powered.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 29
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 29 |
I've rode harleys, hondas and triumphs, now have over 15,000 on my 07 america with out so much as a hiccup, try that with a hardly. Have a bud that rode to alaska and back from the east coast, 06 america, 43,000 miles with only regular oil changes, tire changes. Did have to replace the tail light bulb twice tho.
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Did have to replace the tail light bulb twice tho.
Can't Triumph get anything right? 
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
Lost my tail light bulb once in Conn. at night. Almost junked the bike.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
I got a chance to do a demo ride (Triumph Demo Days) yesterday. The America was booked, so I settled on the Speedmaster. Just like I thought, I did not care for the drag bars, which were too narrow and too far forward for my taste. However, the Speedmaster was a fun ride and had a very nice rumble to it. In fact the SM and BA were both loud bikes when compared to the other models on the demo run. Don't get me wrong - they were no obnoxiously loud - they had a pleasing rumble, and the sound picked up when you gave it the throttle. So for you guys that said the SM & BA sound like sewing machines, maybe Triumph listened and for '09 put louder pipes on. A bike that was almost whisper quiet was the Rocket III touring, and I was surprised by this until I thought about it's intended use (long hauls). And what a nice looking bike the RIII was up close. Also had a chance to look at the new Thunderbird. No rides allowed on the bike, but it did look nice.
Btw, the mirrors on the SM sucked. Would definitely replace those if I bought that bike.
They still have the "demo days" going on today, but I'm so busy that I'm not sure if there will be any time to go back over and test out another bike. If I do, I'd like to try that RIII!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,186 Likes: 55 |
If you haven't sealed the deal yet see if the dealer will swap bars out for you. Many dealers will make small changes like that to make the sale. Herm threw in a seat for me because I wanted the BA set up for taking Wendy when I first bought it and before we got her a BA. He trew in the seats and I paid cost for the sissy bar if I remember right.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Sportster 1200 vs Bonneville America/Speedmast
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34
Greenhorn
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OP
Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 34 |
Dog33, I'm not yet close to any deal, so no worries at this point. I'm sure the dealer would let me ride the BA on another day if I wanted. It was just that Triumph had booked all rides for the BA on Friday so I rode the SM to get a feel for what the BA would be like. I did get a chance to go back to Triumph's Demo Days again (Saturday) in hopes of riding the BA, RIII Touring, or the Tiger. I had arrived late, so everything was booked except the Scrambler. I figured "what the heck" and rode the thing. What a kick in the pants! The Scrambler was a fun bike to ride. It also had the optional Arrow exhaust installed, so there was a nice "bark" to it. I'm glad I got a chance to experience it. 
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