Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Riding Technique Once down rider needs mentorship

Folks,

Need your input. Well, last fall I laid the bike down in traffic. I was extremely lucky and got by with only minor injuries and the bike amazingly will be pretty cheap to fix considering the fact that it slid down the road. I firmly believe that if the bike fit me better, I may have been able to avoid the accident altogether. I am 5'8 and have a very short inseam. I have noticed that when I go for the thin and tiny rear brake that comes stock on our bikes, I will sometime miss it or am not able to apply an appropriate smooth amount of pressure.(wide tank I presume.....when sitting on the feminine accomodating Sportster, I have little trouble reaching the brake)What are my options on making this bike fit me? I have bought floorboards from another member of this site as well as a used rocker shifter. Are there any larger aftermarket rear brake pedals that provide a larger surface? Is is possible to bring the brake closer to the rider? I am also thinking about bringing the bike to a small mom and pop bike shop and asking them to help "fit" the bike to me. The bottom line is that although I am somewhat gunshy about getting back on the ride, I will figure out how to become good at riding a bike. I did not break my hand for nothing. Would appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Jason

The sportster has more of a traditional foot position. My recommendation is to relocate the pegs closer to the seat, and risers to bring the bars back.
I don't think it's ever a good idea to not be COMPLETELY comfortable on the bike. The style of the bike is great, but if it doesn't fit well, and you can't change you really need to reconsider what you're going to ride.
The peg kit ain't cheap. The other option is to buy a Bonneville Black!

Clay

I think the Mom & Pop shop is a good idea to rework the rear brake pedal for you. That is a simple matter of cutting, bending, and/or welding steel.
What about the front brake? Do you use it? Does the lever fit your hand? Many newbies are afraid of the front. The best stopping power is using both brakes together.

Jason , sorry about the spill , have you evaluated why you slid and spilled ? Sounds as tho you may be over - relying on that back brake . That thing will get ya in trouble sometimes . Pedals are an easy fix - they can be repositioned and/or bent to fit . Good luck .

Wendy is 5'2 and I made her bike fit her comfortably. I put floorboards on so she could be in a comfortable seating position. I removed the arm from the shaft coming out of the primary that the shift linkage connects to and rotated it to move the lever closer to her foot to make shifting easy and comfortable. I also adjusted the break pedal back with the threaded rod connecting it to the master cyl. That brought it back far enough for her. I also lowered the bike 2" to make it more comfortable for her to hold up when she stops. Where are you located?

Overcoming a spill can be tough, but it can also be a great wake-up call. Like Dog says, you can adjust things so the bike fits you better, but the back brake alone is poison in a panic situation. You need to become comfortable with stopping quickly using both brakes and the engine to slow you properly. That is only accomplished with the 3 P's.
Practice, Practice, and Practice.

Being gun shy is normal. If you love riding enough, you'll get back on that horse determined to not let it happen again.

Most if not all riders have gone down in their early learning phase. I know when I started in the dirt I went down several times and except for the times my bike wasn't ridable I got right back on and rode the rest of that day. I also had a couple nasty wrecks on the road thanx to some helpful cagers and once thanx to 3 bottles of JD and 2 cases of pounders between me and 1 friend of mine. I was still under age then so it isn't on my record plus I got ARD. When I got out of jail I went down to the impound swapped the broken clutch lever for the unbroken break lever and rode it home. So I guess my point is if you really want to ride get back on your horse.

When I started in the dirt I was the master of the "flying W" dismount... My knees had an unerring radar that could find a rock even hidden under 3 inches of mud....
I'm not a riding expert by any stretch, but I've managed to adapt my riding to my skill level. I've had a few on the street as well, and you sense your mortality rather quickly when that happens. You either pick it up and ride it or give it up.

I grew up riding in the slate quarries and let me tell you that stuff is SHARP! Also I would find a piece every now and the sticking up edge ways enough to wrap my toes around my foot peg! Man that hurt , especially riding home with broken toes!

Well, good to hear that there are options available to make the rear brake more accessable. My wreck was largely a compilation of rookie mistakes caused by a car getting within inches of my rear tire, I got nervous, and things spiraled downward from there. A big part of the reason that I went down is the fact that I grebbed a hand full of front brake.....never had a chance. I think if the rear brake were more accessable, I would be more inclined to use it. I know that an experienced rider would have been able to get the bike stopped and remained on two wheels. Live and learn, I guess. I am very lucky that the bike is largely fixable. The parts that were damaged are the cheap stuff. Thanks for the constructive comments.
Jason

Glad you are OK. You need to sign up for a bike safety course and learn to use the front brake instead of trying to modify the rear pedal. The front brake needs to be your primary braking tool and has most of the bikes stopping power (60-80%). If you only rely on the rear brake, you will get into trouble again. If you have a twin-disc Speedmaster, you are even in better shape. In an emergency situation, to stop in time, you have to be prepared to grab a fistful of front brake and apply the rear to stabilize the bike.

Your name doesn't show your region. I'd locate and take the MSF course, they offer a beginner and advance course. If you have track near you, they will also offer courses (and perhaps more aggresive braking instruction than the MSF). I'm not sure I agree with the MSF's stance on locking the rear brake up (I try to avoid that and find the pedal makes modulation difficult).

I only use the rear brake in low-speed, parking lot situations to control manueverability or on loose gravel, etc where the front wheel can easily wash out.

Many racers don't use the rear brake at all, evening during exremem braking. Those bikes have more effective front brake setups than ours (we'll never be able to do a controlled "Stoppie") But they know the power comes from the front brakes.

These sites might help get a better understanding:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/braking-tips.htm

http://www.msf-usa.org/

Keep us posted.

If you can't get any satisfaction from the local shop Norman Hyde makes a pedal relocation kit that moves both the shifter and the brake and the attendant pegs back toward the rider; designed to accomodate riders with shorter inseams or riders wanting closer to a mid peg location. Norman's stuff is pricey but my experience with his Rearset pegs for Bonnies tells me the quality is very good.

I've experienced some grabbiness with the front brake on my 2007 America. Like coming up to a stop sign where you think the intersection is clear, but then realize its not, you end up grabbing some brake and sometimes with the front wheel turned slighty, you end up getting a litte more brake than you expect. Had this happen a few times to the point where I almost thought I was gonna drop the bike. In normal use its fine, just in those low speed situations it can be a little "grabby".

IMHO, I don't believe in making bikes fit you to be able to ride them. At 5'8" it fits, you are just not used to it. I believe in alterations for comfort though. In this case you low sided yourself without hitting a fixed object by relying way to much on the rear brake.

It sounds like forward controls may not be for you. That is pretty normal, they are not for everybody. Its a totally different ride.

How bout taking the bike out and unless absolutely needed you use your front brake only until you get used to how it all works. Doing this in light traffic naturally until you get your feet wet and back into the saddle.

Around the neighborhoods reverse that and only use the rear brake until you get the pressure 2nd nature on it.

When I used to teach I found new riders that depend a lot on the rear brake are squeezing the grips so tightly they don't feel comfortable using the levers. At the end of very short rides they would complain that their hands hurt. As they got a lot of miles behind them they would learn to lighten up on the grips.

In any event, glad you survived it with just a bit of pain and damage. I would give what you have more time and practice, practice, practice.

Ya know, I was thinkin' here that Jason's short inseam and his 5'8" height COULD have contributed to this, because if one has to reach for the peg AND rear brake pedal, that it could make having a "light touch" upon said pedal kind'a tricky.

Jason, I think maybe you might wish to look into gettin' one of these set-back foot control units that Brent sells here....

http://www.newspeedmaster.com/html/hyde_footrests.html

(oh...and yeah...and start practicing the use of that front brake lever up there at your right hand too, amigo)

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input. I have been advised of a few products by your posts that I did not know existed........thank you very much. Like I have stated before, the accident was a result of rookie mistakes on my fourth day in real "live" traffic. Someone pulled their car within a couple inches of my rear fender, I got nervous and closed distance with the car in front of me. When the traffic to the front hit their brakes, I dumped the bike trying to get stopped. Like I said, I think an experienced biker could have got the bike stopped and remained on two wheels. I actully had taken the MSF course as as mandated by my employer (US Military). Well, as far as planning the way ahead, I think I will retake the MSF course offered for the amazing price of free on post. Actully, it all depends on how you look at it, but I would in reality be getting paid to take the MSF course.....just have to arrange for the time off from the job to take it. I may actully take the course a couple of times this summer if time permits. I feel that the little 250's in the course gave me a false sense of security. I felt that I could simply manhandle the littler bikes if I got into trouble. Bottom line, lots of practice to do and many lessons already learned the hard way. I think the first few trips of the bike will be white knuckle experiences due to the fact that the accident will still be in the back of my mind. Gotta get back on and try again.

Thanks,
Jason

I think you should also practice hard stopping on your bike to try and get a feel of the breaks and how much pressure you can safely apply to the front. Start out normal breaking and slowly work up to more and more pressure on the front until you get the feel of what is safe. Thing is the 250s they supply are good practice but won't help you get the feel for your bike.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there ain't nothing better than riding dirt before you ride street...

But since that probably isn't an option here, I have to agree with Dog, you will get more out of practising on your bike than you will out of taking the safety course over and over. See if you can use your bike in the safety course. In PA they have an advanced course where you use your own bike, but I don't think you're at that point based on the info so far. Good luck, whatever you decide. And keep this thought in your head when you're riding on the street - "they don't see me and they want to kill me"...

And some of them do see you and just don't care if they kill you!

Our bikes have a slightly higher center of gravity due to the vertical twin vs the V twin configuration. If the front wheel is turned a smidgeon and you hit the front brakes, it will go down. However, once you get used to maneuvering your bike it won't be a problem. There is no substitute for hours riding. Since most bike drops occur at low speed, put in a lot of practice in parking lots and other places you can safely ride without worrying about other drivers. I hate people crowding my back side any time. If I am stopped, I usually turn around and look at the driver-nothing rude-just establishing eye contact and they get the hint.

Hang in there and you'll make it just fine. Some people think the first day you get a new bike you should just go kick it over so you get it over with-like the first dent on a new car.

You might want to get a copy of the 'Ride Like a Pro' video. It is very good for even experienced riders.

Man to cab driver in NYC: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?

Cab driver to man: Practice, Practice, Practice!

the old ladies glare, too

Lot of good advice already posted to you. As you are in the military you can understand "watch your brothers back". Same advice for those of us into bikes.Take all the advice in the spirit it is given as we all want you to be safe. I have been riding bikes since 1961 (you do the math) and I still find an empty high school parking lot every once in awhile to keep myself in touch with emergency tactics and just for fun. Experts in any field will tell you that in an emergency your body/brain will react the way it has been taught thru training and repetition. Practice your low speed handling, sweeps,swerves, stops ect. If you go to Amazon.com or several other book sellers and go to books and enter motorcycle in the search block you will get hundreds of books on riding bikes safely. It is money well spent. One I have read and re-read and highly recommend is "More Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough. It covers most of what you need and causes you to think about differant situations you will find yourself in. Also has many parking lot drills illustrated. Bottom line is learn all you can about riding safe and learning to avoid hazardous sitiuations so you can avoid having to use emergency tactics to keep from harm. Develope that 6th sense that a lot of old hands have. It comes sooner than you think if you study and observe every time you ride. Go your own way.

Dale, how did they make bikes run in the days before electricity?

STEAM. http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/classics/bike.asp?id=3 Bring your lunch if you want to play with this old dog, Doggie.

In answer to your question Dog 33.

Quote:

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STEAM. http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/classics/bike.asp?id=3 Bring a sack lunch if you want to play with this old dog, Doggie.

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Forgot you answered me? Oldtimers kickin' in? Now try and remember that you answered me , no need to post it again! I hyaven't read the link yet but I'll get there.

I have seen that article before but the pictures down the side are pretty cool. I don't think I ever saw close up shots of that bike.

Thanks for your service Lohman! A good practice technique I use for modulating the front brake and improving low speed manueverability (parking lot situations). I do this in my cul-de-sac with no traffic:

USING ONLY THE REAR BRAKE - see how slowly you can do figure eights with the handlebars at or near complete lock. Use the throttle while holding the rear brake on to hold the bike at a crawl. You'll be amazed at the control you can develop. In low speed situations, when you have to move the handlebars with your arms, stay off that front brake, it will toss you down. Like I said earlier, all front brake at speed.

It sounds like you could use the advanced MSF course. I believe in some you can use your own bike or 400 cc bikes. Those 250's are tiny and you make a great point that they instill over-confidence because you can man-handle them.

With Spring coming and more miles, your confidence will soar - don't let that make you complacent!

Tell us where you are from, someone here might be close and it's fun riding with these folks (and informative).

Google 'Motorcycle Cornering". There is a great on line free riding instruction course that gives the basics of braking, cornering ect. with pictures. I had to relearn to ride by taking baby steps and this was one of them. Although I had ridden for 10 years 30 years ago I did not even know what counter steering was. Knowing the physics, mechanics of the sport is huge. My dealor told me to forget I had a front brake under 5 miles an hour. That thing will torque your wheel over and down you go. I must start practicing panic stops at speed. It is essential. The back brake is merely a compliment to the front. They do say to use it when braking in a curve. You want to be straight up in a curve if you try hard braking though. I will take the advanced rider course. I know that in all things I can keep learning. Good luck and God bless.

No, worse than that. Was trying to paste a pic but could not figure it out. I guess my hyper wont linc, or my linc wont hyper.

Think you could modify it to meet present day EPA standards using same fuel source ?

This pic?

Really cool and bet it took guts to hang onto it at 40mph.