 can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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 Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Eeh! I wouldn't worry too much about H-D's future there, Mike!  (nope...you see, if worse comes to worse, Willie G. can do what the corporate heads of the Big Three automakers just did....FLY on their CORPORATE JETS to Washington D.C. and ask for a hand out!!!)  
Last edited by Dwight; 11/20/2008 1:27 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I hope they can hold on. I'm not a huge Harley fan, but I like ALL bikes, and they are a US based company.
Clay
01010100 01110010 01101001 01110101 01101101 01110000 01101000 <3
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Read an article on economics once that claimed that high end toys are recession proof, to a degree. People that can afford to afford toys such as over priced bikes and boats will continue to buy them.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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With the way things are going, a few motorcycles might be the only thing left that we make in this country....
Stewart
.......
"It's outside your field of expertise."
"Poppycock normally is."
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
With the way things are going, a few motorcycles might be the only thing left that we make in this country....
Yep, Stew! Just like what happened to our "Mother Country", Jolly Ol' You-Know-Where! 
(...but at least THOSE GUYS could always blame THEIR manufacturing demise all on JOE LUCAS!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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Quote:
Read an article on economics once that claimed that high end toys are recession proof, to a degree. People that can afford to afford toys such as over priced bikes and boats will continue to buy them.
The problem with today's financial mess is that it has not been the rich people buying expensive toys, it's been the average working man buying toys that he really couldn't afford to pay for.
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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That was certainly a huge part of it Terry. You don't buy a loaf of bread for $40, you don't buy a 10pc screwdriver set for $700 and you don't by a house worth $300,000 for half a million. It's pure common sense.
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I like this quote off this guy Quote:
The reason that Harley is not what it used to be is because the company has turned its back on its core customers in favor of the quick buck. It has always been the die hard biker, not the weekend motorcycle enthusiast, that has kept Harley alive in the lean times. If you do not understand the difference between those two then you have no business on a Harley in the first place.
Apparently, somone in management at Harley has forgotten that. They now sell things like V-Rods, the definitive anti-Harley. This monstrosity is everything that Harley has always stood against. It used to be that when you walked into a Harley dealer you got grease and oil on your shoes, now it is more like walking into a chic boutique on the magnificent mile. In addition to that the company has caved into pressure from the government and very soon Harley's will not be customizable. What good is it to own a Harley if it looks just like everyone else's Harley? Harley may be just over 100 years old but it won't see 150 if they keep going the way they are going.
Source
Ray(UK)
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
They now sell things like V-Rods, the definitive anti-Harley. This monstrosity is everything that Harley has always stood against.
While that may be sentimentally true, water cooled bikes are the path of the future and HD needed to get theirs right to survive.
Quote:
What good is it to own a Harley if it looks just like everyone else's Harley?
This part is truly laughable. Sticking a few bits of chrome or loud pipes on a bike isn't customizing it, it's accessorizing it like the missus adding pearls to her little black dress. Customizing involves paint and welding apparatus...that cat is just whinging...they all look the same anyway unless they're cut, chopped, bobbed or painted.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
The problem with today's financial mess is that it has not been the rich people buying expensive toys, it's been the average working man buying toys that he really couldn't afford to pay for.
And the reason he couldn't afford them is that the better paying job he should have had in America is being performed (albeit badly) by a $20/day worker in Guandong. The bubble has burst guys; this is what happens when you break the economic circle that sustains us.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Quote:
They now sell things like V-Rods, the definitive anti-Harley. This monstrosity is everything that Harley has always stood against.
While that may be sentimentally true, water cooled bikes are the path of the future and HD needed to get theirs right to survive.
Quote:
What good is it to own a Harley if it looks just like everyone else's Harley?
This part is truly laughable. Sticking a few bits of chrome or loud pipes on a bike isn't customizing it, it's accessorizing it like the missus adding pearls to her little black dress. Customizing involves paint and welding apparatus...that cat is just whinging...they all look the same anyway unless they're cut, chopped, bobbed or painted.
Yep Ed! Exactly what I was thinkin' while I read "Mr.Traditionalist's" little op-ed there! 
Evidently THAT knucklehead thinks motorcycle technology's peak was in 1936, when those fellas in Milwaukee hit the market with THEIR Knucklehead, huh?!  
Though I do have to agree with him about that "boutique" phenomenon he made mention of, but once again I think he's off the mark here. What's made Harley so successful since Willie G. bought the family business back is NOT the so-called "hard core riders being faithful", nope, it was that the EVO motor was a heck of lot more reliable than the Shovelhead, and that after THAT, all those Wannabes and Returnees to motorcycle riding(after their kids moved out of the house and their Mrs. said it was okay to ride a motorcycle again) knew that they didn't have to be much of a mechanic anymore to own a machine that'll give 'em that "tough biker look" they'd been longing to project to the world for so long.
(...and of course the idea of which almost ALL the Harley ads you'll ever see continue to push to 'em)
Last edited by Dwight; 11/21/2008 1:43 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Shoot, the ones I see around can barely negotiate right turns or left turns, I don't see where downturns would be much different.
jh
"It's not what I say that's important, it's what you hear" Red Auerbach
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
Shoot, the ones I see around can barely negotiate right turns or left turns, I don't see where downturns would be much different.
jh
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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well if they close maybe someone like john bloor can buy them and build proper reliable bikes again like the bloor did with triumph i would not like it to be taken over by a jap or chink factory saying that most bits on HD and triumph are made in the oriental side of our earth and seem to be working just dont sound right HARLEY DAVIDSON MADE IN CHINA not even obama would allow that 
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I know we all like to give Harley a ribbing around here, but if anyone is gonna get a bailout and Harley goes under, we will need to reevaluate our priorities.
You can't put a price on cool.
Can anyone tell me what England made that was cool in between 1983 and the second coming of Triumph? I didn't think so.
Strangler
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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well the streetfighter style of motorcycle came from the brits
i remember MARTEK frames SPONDON HARRIS amonst others
also the hesketh was british and when malcom cox got his hands on one he customised it brilliantly
thats not counting the loads of cottage industry that make custom bikes
i know theres loads of others
the yanks like show
the brits like go
and even though my america has lots of chrome
(chrome don't get you home, but it will get you laid) or so they say
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
chrome don't get you home, but it will get you laid) or so they say
I like Chrome
Ray(UK)
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
Quote:
chrome don't get you home, but it will get you laid) or so they say
I like Chrome
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Victoria Beckham. 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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HD will muddle through. The real question is if Triumph can. Nothing could be worse for a twin builder than to see a glut of used, cheap, low mileage Harleys on the used market. Companies like Victory will also suffer.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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I've been looking at the ads on craigslist, and people are still looking for $10K-$14K for their used Harleys. I can't imagine too many are going to get sold for that price, and when people really need cash, there's going to be a lot of used iron on the market for pretty rock-bottom prices. Will anyone buy a new one if they can pick up a fairly recent one for, say, $8K?
EDITED TO ADD: And I'm seeing the same thing with BMWs. I think most of the Beemer crowd is going to weather the recession just fine, though, so maybe it doesn't matter so much.
Last edited by Joe_Merlino; 11/24/2008 10:31 AM.
-Joe Merlino
Boston, MA USA
1982 BMW R100 (decomissioned), 2003 America
Triumph: Cool enough for The Fonz, cool enough for me.
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
I've been looking at the ads on craigslist, and people are still looking for $10K-$14K for their used Harleys. I can't imagine too many are going to get sold for that price, and when people really need cash, there's going to be a lot of used iron on the market for pretty rock-bottom prices. Will anyone buy a new one if they can pick up a fairly recent one for, say, $8K?
I think it might be much worse than that. Maybe 25% of new cost for a bike two to three years old. 2010-2011 will see if I'm right.
Quote:
I think most of the Beemer crowd is going to weather the recession just fine
I'm in the camp that believes this isn't a recession and that it isn't temporary. The current economic crash is the inevitable result of the widespread, broadbase loss of manufacturing to southeast Asia. I don't believe anyone in the West will weather this storm. Given the current political climate (summed up in Bush's vow to the Chinese not to interfere with "free trade"), we're headed for thirld-world status.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
I'm in the camp that believes this isn't a recession and that it isn't temporary. The current economic crash is the inevitable result of the widespread, broadbase loss of manufacturing to southeast Asia. I don't believe anyone in the West will weather this storm. Given the current political climate (summed up in Bush's vow to the Chinese not to interfere with "free trade"), we're headed for thirld-world status.
+1
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
I'm in the camp that believes this isn't a recession and that it isn't temporary. The current economic crash is the inevitable result of the widespread, broadbase loss of manufacturing to southeast Asia. I don't believe anyone in the West will weather this storm. Given the current political climate (summed up in Bush's vow to the Chinese not to interfere with "free trade"), we're headed for thirld-world status.
I don't think so. Most of the world's technological innovation comes from the US. I think we'll survive the contraction in the manufacturing sector. (Of course, it might help if we didn't have to pay auto workers $70/hr.)
I think it's going to be a pretty severe recession - probably as bad as what we had in the 70s (although hopefully without the inflation), but I've been hearing gloom and doom predictions my entire life, and it has yet to materialize.
-Joe Merlino
Boston, MA USA
1982 BMW R100 (decomissioned), 2003 America
Triumph: Cool enough for The Fonz, cool enough for me.
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Most of the world's technological innovation comes from the US.
Really, do you actually think that is even remotely true?
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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I'm not going to open THIS can of worms. If you've got data, I'll be happy to consider revising my opinion. If not, I'm not interested in arguing national prejudices. I ran out of arguing-with-strangers-on-the-internet juice back in the mid 90s.
-Joe Merlino
Boston, MA USA
1982 BMW R100 (decomissioned), 2003 America
Triumph: Cool enough for The Fonz, cool enough for me.
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Quote:
Most of the world's technological innovation comes from the US.
Really, do you actually think that is even remotely true?
Even if it is true, innovation is only economic fuel. Manufacturing is the motor that creates national wealth.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I never said I didn't think we would survive this but I don't think it will go back to the way it used to be. Things get worse, things get better it happens. We are in a different global market now and that isn't going to go away. We need to adapt and learn that the US can't call the shots and survive as an island unto itself. There is so much fat that could be cut, trouble is the fat that needs to be cut is controlled by the people doing the cutting. Instead of getting paid the same pay after retirement those in gov't that get that should have to save for it and collect SS like everyone else. Those same people should take huge pay cuts in many cases. I have many more ideas, if we can survive this new president and develop our own oil resources that would also be a step in the right direction.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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The Dog in 2012!? 
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
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Re: can-harley-davidson-handle-the-downturn
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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05 TBA Mulberry/Silver, Thunder Bike pipes, K&N single Filter, 132 main Jet's, Snorkles Removed
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