Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Of busted knees and careless driving...

They say it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when...

The story:
I was riding on the freeway one morning at normal freeway speeds in the left lane. Traffic was medium-heavy for morning commute. I had plenty of breathing room in front and back. So I round this slight bend, slight hill that makes for a few seconds of blind curve situation. As I crest the hill I see nothing but brake lights - so I grab some brake myself. It wasn't at all a panic stop but it was certainly an aggressive stop if that makes any sense. Next thing I know I am in a front wheel skid at about 50mph and before I even have a chance to react, the bike is buckling under me and I go down.

The outcome:
Tore my ACL and MCL in my knee - my guess is that I planted my foot as I went down, like that would help - lol, but I honestly don't remember much between "Oh S$#%" and "Thank God I'm still intact". Full face helmet somehow avoided the road completely and my fully armored leather jacket took the brunt of the rest. My hands and wrists hurt quite a bit and I'll have to have surgery on the knee.
The bike amazingly is barely damaged. It just slid down the road a bit and didn't hit anything. It looks like someone carefully and gently laid it on its side and then dragged it for a 150 feet or so. There are a lot of scratches but the only thing keeping it off the road is the gear shift lever that is bent pretty bad but I could maybe tweak that back into place.

My take: All things considered, I guess I got lucky. And while this is obviously my fault, I'm still wonder how I managed to end up in a high speed front wheel skid in the first place... physics should be on my side, no? I did run over a puddle of green stuff, probably coolant, less that a 1/4 mile before this happened but I doubt that had an effect.

Anyway, the point of this long story is that at the scene, a cop wanted to see my registration and insurance, which I didn't have on me. So he writes me up for that and Careless Driving (While lying in the ER, leg in a brace, hopped up on dilaudid...nice guy) Since careless driving is more serious than speeding, I have to go to court for it.

Do I have a leg to stand on, no pun intended, regarding any kind of careless driving defense or do I just have to take my lumps and pay the man?
I'd really like to not have to pay this fine since I'll be out thousands of dollars in medical bills anyway.
Is there any legitimate mechanical or environmental reason that could lead to a front wheel skid at that speed... or do I just suck?

I'm not trying to lay blame off myself - I just want a FULL understanding of what did happen or might have influenced the event. I know that no matter what kind of stuff out of my control happens out there, I need to be prepared to react. Just trying to understand and trying to not have to pay any more out of pocket over it.

I don't know what the best approach to take is but unless he personally saw you doing something naughty it seems like a pretty big jump to assume anyone who drops a bike is riding carelessly. I would certainly plead not guilty and explore your legal options. Without someone to dispute your defense of "I saw brake lights and even though I didn't have to slam on the brakes I panicked and did just that...gosh I don't know why," a conviction seems unlikely. You might even call the prosecutor right away and explain what happened and see if he would consider dropping the charges since you are a licensed motorcyclist and you think you just panicked. Tell him the fine money would be better invested in an advanced motorcycle safety class.

Personally, I think any officer who cites a motorcyclist for careless driving after dumping a bike but not causing any other property damage is a complete arsehole. Your pain and banged up bike is fine enough!

You were not vertical when you grabbed the brake is my guess. Seen this happen a couple times on dirt. You really never want to brake while turning.

Clay

"puddle of green stuff"
I put anti-freeze in my p/u today,
had to wash my hands 4 times before
they didn't feel slippery.
Uncle Charlie

For what its worth, the OHIO State Patrol gave me a $80 ticket for "failure to controll", when I did a 180 on a snow covered road, in my then new 2000 Siverado, and had to be pulled out of the drainage ditch.

Also it's not that hard to lock-up the front brake on our bikes. Don't ask me how I know.

Too much front brake when you grabbed it. Frijoli may be right on the curve part contributing. If you were leaning and grabbed, well that makes for trouble. Glad you are gonna be ok longterm. The ticket sucks, I would go to court. But I'm cranky that way.

I can't imagine careless driving could stick but you'd better get a good story going. Did the cop say WHY he was charging you? He must have gone out of his way to get to you in the ER.

Antilock brakes would have been your saving grace. That's the one option I wish I had on my Tiger.

Bill has it right and you should always contest a ticket and in this case most definetly. he didnt see you go down and he has no way of knowing what happened. irregularity in the pavement, could be anything from a crack to sand or oil. go out there where you were and see if there is anything wrong with the pavement and if there is, take pics. but for sure this ticket should be contested!!!!!

Glad you made it brother. I'll tell ya, as UC notes, antifreeze is extremely slippery. As much as oil is, on a road surface. I'd use it, in your place, but as a rule, I avoid it like vampires avoid daylite.
Tell the man there was some on the road surface, if you didnt already
G

I think you have a really good chance of beating the careless driving rap. Like others have noted, the cop didn't witness the accident so your word is all anyone has to go on. The blind curve, cresting a hill, stopped cars appear in front of you. I don't think there's a chance that will stick. Just my 2 cents.
I hope you get better soon!

Sorry to hear about your wreck. Hope you're feeling better soon.

contest it, he didn't see it, there were hazards in the road... good luck, glad it was no worse, good luck with the surgery...

I once read about an accident in England during which a truck driver lost control on a city street and plowed into a number of parked cars. Criminal charges were dismissed when he claimed to have been sneezing uncontrollably. That aside, I'm sure you slid because a dog ran out in front of you. Or maybe it was the motorist who swerved into your lane unexpectedly, trying to avoid the jam ahead. Etc. Hope you didn't make a statement (and hope you get better soon).

When I dropped my bike and sat in the ER all morphined out, very nice nurses. Anyhow, Illinois trooper comes in and I do not have my license with me, on me, whatever, I was in space. Cop then states that he has to write me a ticket for "Failure to slow to avoid an accident." I inform him that there was not an accident until I went down so there was no need to slow. Nope must sight me is the response. I believe my reponse was to tell him what a "meow" ticket it was. For some reason he became very incensed. Amazingly I felt the morphine kick in and I "fell" asleep. ( ) Didn't beat it 'cuz the prosecutor made a good deal with me and I got out of the courtroom about 4 hours earlier than had I contested. Made sure I gave Mr. Trooper a big poop eating grin though with a little "meow" comment thrown in for good measure. It was a very fun reaction to see.

OK guys take a chill pill here on contesting the careless driving thing. As an ADA I don't appreciate it when the first thing out of someone's mouth in court is, "there's no way that trooper could have . . . " LEO's on the road are for the most part highly trained, and alot of them around here are crash reconstruction specialists. So when they say careless/reckless driving, they usually can back it up in court. When I have someone start out by bashing my troopers, I immediately call it for trial, and "my opinion is that I wasn't reckless/careless" doesn't stack up to an expert opinion. Keeping control of our bikes is our responsbility. Don't try and spin this. Careless driving just means you were not driving in a way that was suitable for the then existing conditions. If you top a rise into backed-up traffic, you should have slowed enough before reaching that blind spot to be able to stop. Or, look at it this way: if you had been in a car, and wrecked your car because of the traffic, do you think it's defensible? Of course not.

What WOULD work is to ask the DA if you could go to a driving school to reduce the charge to a non-moving violation (which we do all the time, and ESPECIALLY if I find out the Defendant is a motorcycle rider - and preference to METRIC bikes!) and/or tell the DA this was an accident case and your insurance is covering all expenses and damages. In that case, I ususally dismiss the charge altogether, all of the above being approved with the troopers as business as usual.

Thank goodness you're safe, and I'm glad your bike is going to be OK too!

Nope, I ain't going for it, Virginia. I never beleived in the saying "there is no such thing as an unavoidable accident", and I don't think such thinking is realistic, except to "superior" types that haven't been there. A judge once told me, after he collected the small fine and didn't file the minor accident report, "sometimes there are just accidents. Good luck in your recovery, Scott, and fight the ticket.

Sorry, got to call you on this one. Attorney's are all about "you agree to this, we'll agree to that", and in the end we ALL know you'll end up being charged with less than you were accused of. Come on now....

Nope, I ain't goin' for it either. The "vehicle under control at all times" is just a catch-all to fill the coffers and avoid having to really investigate an accident.
If everyone slowed abruptly at every rise in the road, every blind bend, and every intersection, no one would ever get anywhere and there would be a lot more accidents....

The man wrecked his bike and banged himself up and still doesn't know himself how it happened. There was no other vehicle involved, no other injury, and no property damage.
It's a b.s. ticket.

"I saw the brake lights of the car in front come on so, having left enough of a gap that I, myself, could react in good time, I gently applied mine to maintain the gap. Unfortunately, I noticed in my mirror that the car behind was gaining..fast. My brain just had time to register that the front of the car was dipped, like it might do under heavy braking, but the car was not stopping. I was sure he was about to hit me so I released my brakes to increase the gap between myself and it. Unfortunately, this meant that I was a lot closer to the car in front, who had continued to brake. Fearing either a rear end collision from the car behind, or going into the rear of the car in front, I made a decision to lie my bike down...blah, blah, blah...all under control" Or words to that effect.

What we don't know is whether the cop saw what happened, which I think is the issue. If he did, then, possibly, he can use the 'careless' thing. If he didn't, he's just guessing. If he did see it, find out if he rides. If not, and you're feeling up to it, you could dispute his credibility; the physics of a bike and a car are completely different. If you're going to crash, it's far better to slide into something than hit it head on: your slide, therefore, was intentional and under control; you had the presence of mind to make the decision. You could also try to find out if he's ever had an accident which would further undermine his 'expert assessment'.
I'd use this as a last resort, tho, and take Wannabe's advice first.
Glad your well enough to recount your tale, no matter how crappy it is.
Heal quick and well.

Sorry to hear that Scottish, hope you heal quickly . fight the ticket too, seems like bull shite to me.