Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Man I don't want to start a rumour................

or contribute to it but I'm hearing gas with jump $1.00 per gallon in the Southeast on Friday.
I went to fill up both cages and lines are forming at every station. Anyone else hearing this?
Mike

the price will be what it is .... Saudia Arabia bailed from OPEC... to increase production and lower prices. This is a scare.

I dont know, I heard it from someone in the oil industry they were expecting up close to $2 increase in texas and a bit lower on north. They are saying because of the storms in the gulf.

Storms in the gulf, Russia pipeline being squeezed by neighboring countries, a single tanker sinks somewhere in the world, someone somewhere related to the oil biz sneezes, one exuse is just as good as another. It's not hard to herd sheep.

problem isn't saudi arabia, it's the other members of OPEC. they are going to start reducing production in order to keep prices high. saudia arabia has stated that they are not going to fall in line with OPEC, but they did not specifically say that they are going to increase/decrease/maintain the current production levels. they could, on their own, decide to limit their production even more than the other members of OPEC, which would lead to even higher prices.

btw, it isn't oil availability that has driven oil prices up, it's oil speculation. if the federal government would prohibit speculation market activity, your gas would still be inexpensive. it's artificially high right now. the problem is that bush is from an oil family, and is tight with many of the people involved in oil both here in the u.s. and in the middle east. he's in a position to make them money, so he does. cheney's position as veep is exactly why halliburton gets all those no-bid contracts over there as well. it's all about favoritism, and keeping/making money for those in the 'know'

/rant

Above is a political rant, so......... EXPLAIN HOW TO REPEAL THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Drill Here, Drill Now!

drilling now isn't really going to help a whole lot. i'm not saying i'm against it, it just isn't going to be the panacea that people are hoping it will be. start drilling now, and by 2030 we get an extra 200,000 barrels a day. we use 20 million barrels a day. so, 2 decades from now, we'll have an extra 1%, if we drill here drill now.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html

mowing my lawn ain't going to stop the I have to mow my lawn issue either. Jeez, Grow up. Drill here. Drill now.
Edited to reflect all the issues:
Refine here, Refine now.

The other part of the process is production. I'm in favor of using our own oil supplies including the massive reserves in Alaska. However, we already have oil wells that have been capped off for years. What we need is the ability to refine more oil. When was the last refinery built in the US? Why hasn't there been more built? I think regulation and EPA is the problem there.

NIMBY

I blame the Environmental Wacko Tree Huggers, aided by the Democratic Party. The environment (at least in the US) is in better shape today then when I was a kid. Time to Drill and Refine our own.

.40 cent hike overnight in Knoxville. Somewhere in the neighborhood of .60 + total increase this week.
$ 3.99 for 87 this morning, I guesstimate $4.49 by Saturday morning.

Gas price Map

$3.73 for 89 octane September 11, 2008, Cape Canaveral, FL.

Prices at the pump have little to do with availability, OPEC, the price of crude or the ability to refine. One only needs to look at US oil company profits to know exactly why pump gas is $4/gallon. The oil companies and present political regime are to blame for this. End of story.

Jack

Sept 12th, Knoxville, Tn
11:30 am $ 4.49 for 87, reports some stations at $4.96 for 87.
F-n- nuts.

The "Tree Hugging Wackos" have nothing to do with sensible environmental policy. The largest US oil company (EXXON) controls less then 2% of the worlds output of oil, yes they are making a fortune, but they are not controlling the price level. If they could increase their percentage of the worlds' output by DRILLING HERE NOW they would make even more money but that pesky law of supply and demand would lower prices to the consumer, (that is us BTW). I am OK with that. BTW these greedy oil companies are all shareholder owned so have a duty to their owners to run responsibly (that means profits).

Drill Here, Drill Now!

Just a quick reality check here.. any new drilling, if initiated now, would not see any new oil flowing for 7-10 years, and even if all available reserves were exploited, it would only reduce our oil imports by an insignificant amount (the US has less than 3% of the total world reserve, yet uses over 20% of the worlds oil production). As a case stuty, the Department of Energy looked at what opening up the Alaskan Natural Wildlife Reserve (ANWR) for oil exploration and production would do. It's findings? Well, we wouldn't see any oil flowing out of there until 2018. And at peak production between 2022 and 2026, it would only reduce our dependence on imported oil by 2%. In addition, that study does not take into account the declining oil production in currently active domestic wells, which would drop the 2% estimate even lower. Drilling now would not provide any immediate or even short-term relief, provide only minimal long-term relief, prolong our reliance on oil (regardless of source), and would simply dump even more money into an infrastructure that, as a country, we are desperately trying to move away from.
Source: US Department Of Energy ANWR Analysis
Source: US Energy Information Administration Country Energy Profiles
Source: US Department of Energy most recent estimates of Oil Reserves - August 2008

The current gas prices are overly inflated, as Tim correctly pointed out, due to the 'Enron' loophole, which exempts energy speculators from regulation in the futures market. Closing that loophole would provide an immediate reduction in current prices and prevent them from skyrocketing like we have seen over the past few years.

The "loophole" was drafted by Enron Lobbyists working with senator Phil Gramm in 2000 (7 U.S.C. §2(h)(3) and (g)).
An attempt to repeal the policy was vetoed by President Bush in 2008. Several Democratic Legislators introduced legislation to close the loophole from 2000-2006, but were unsuccessful due to Republican control of the House and Senate (including current presidential candidate John McCain).

Sorry to be so US-centric in this post, however, since the US is one of the primary market driving forces for oil, this does, in many ways, directly effect those who live outside the US as well. Hopefully, our next President will be able to do something about this situation.

Cheers,
Brad

If the storm surge goes up the HOuston ship channel, we could potentially lose 25% of the US capability to refine oil. Think what that would do to gasoline prices.

Why are arguments against energy independence based on the "too long to market and then not enough anyway" screed. Bill Clinton vetoed drilling in ANWR about ten years ago. Who knows how much better things would be now? Make the "too little too late" argument AFTER we have done something, do not use it to stop progress. As for speculation driving up prices; the speculator takes a position and gambles he can predict the market direction, thus the ENVIRONMENTAL WACKOS demands that halt new production and refining do more to help those who speculate then any "loophole".

For anything to really change we need gas prices to double. Then people will be motivated to change. People will demand cars with alternative fuels and better gas mileage. It's not politics. It's human nature.

I heard that in Texas gas is $5 a gallon. Those bastages are gouging the people who have to evacuate. I think the oil co. and the station owners should face HEAVY fines for that one! Not looking forward to what this storm may do to prices everywhere either. Galveston Is. will be completely under water from what I hear.

$5 gas a few places here in Tallahassee. Most stations are out now. Today they mentioned $5 gasoline coming, there were long lines all over town. Reminded me of the embargo back in the late 70's.

T Boone Pickens, former oilman and now alternative energy guru, points out that we have less than 3% of the world's oil reserves but consume 25% of the available world supply of oil each day.
So, I must agree that any drilling is only putting off a problem our children will face and won't solve anything except satisfy our selfishness in the short term. We desperately need a long term strategy. And that means,for the future well being and security of the USA, we must stop being beholden to the oil nations. We must become energy independent.
And I won't even get into the dangers we set ourselves up for by borrowing from China to pay for all this oil (see current deficits)...
SteveB

Quote:

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The oil companies and present political regime are to blame for this. End of story.

---

Now this guy has it right! It's all about profit and politics. Just like taxes, our "government" needs more money to p i s s away, so they increase taxes. Wish I could increase my pay check every time I wanted more money.

Paw

laughs when we talk about Supply and Demand and how so many people are willing to buy that nonsense from Wall St. and their many friends in Congress and the Executive Branch.

Absolutely! All you have to do is look at how prices continue to rise, even when production is increased or demand declines. Here is a little tidbit for you to ponder over, taken directly from the 2001 Presidential Energy Policy:

Eighty-five percent of total U.S. natural gas consumption is produced domestically. Canada, with very large gas supplies and easy pipeline access to the lower 48 states, accounts for nearly all U.S. natural gas imports. Unlike oil, almost all natural gas is produced and sold within the same region. Therefore, prices are determined by regional, rather than global, markets.

In 2000, natural gas prices moved sharply higher after fifteen years of generally flat prices. Futures prices surged by 320 percent in 2000 to an all-time high of $9.98 per million Btus in late December 2000--nearly five times higher than the $2.05 per million Btu average from 1991 to 1999.

Source: 2001 US National Energy Policy Report - complete
Source: 2001 US National Energy Policy Report - sectional

It was in 2000 that regulation on energy futures trading was lifted (via the 'electronic trading' or 'enron' loophole), regulations that had been in place since 1922. And as the above points out, prices had remained flat until suddenly (without giving any reasons), they jumped over 300%. Do you seriously believe that "Demand" skyrocketed enough to warrant that type of increase?

Cheers,
Brad

Kudo's to MrUnix. He's got the facts. Supply and demand have little to do with market prices and petroleum nowadays.big business has got us sheep figured out. Ever hear of "marketing psycology"? big business knows that people will scream bloody murder every time prices go up. Congress will "investigate", comentators will decry the injustice of it all. After a little while, people get tired of *******n about it and grudginly go along with it, the furor dies down, the sheep quit Baaaaing loudly, prices may even drop a little. Then, the cycle repeats itself again. I so well remember so many different cycles of this crap, and so should most of the board members here, if they try and think back. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....(sorry for the cinisism).(and the spelling)

MrUnix
Great arguement, but it's flawed. For one thing there are existing oil riggs of the coast of California which were shut down with the ban. They could be up an running in about 60 days.

The major flaw is in the charts provided. You might want to read the foot notes to them. See how the GOV defines "reserves". Some believe there is more oil under America than has been used since the invention of the internal combustion engine.

The arguement that it will take a decade to make a difference, well that applies to all human endevors, the space programm, more efficent autos, etc. Even the left's "global warming" fix.

i think the argument is that even in a decade, it WON'T make a difference, not that it will take that long. we are not paying high prices because of lack of oil (although, i think that people are beginning to realize that supply is not infinite), but rather because the people that supply oil want you to pay high prices for oil.

let me give you a really quick fortune tell:
mmmmm, *shakes magic eight ball*...we will drill for oil here, and the companies that did so will make oodles of money.

there are existing oil riggs of the coast of California which were shut down with the ban

Which ban? And can you provide any documentation to verify this? I cannot find one single piece of legislation or bill passed that shuts down any existing platforms. Even the California State Lands Commission Offshore Gas and Oil lease summary shows that existing leases have continued to be developed since 1965, with undeveloped leases dropping to NONE in 2008).
Source: California State Lands Commission Oil and Gas Lease Summary - 2008

Even so, according to the California Division of Oil, Gas and Geothermal Resources (DOGGR) January 2008 preliminary report, offshore drilling (both State and Federal) in California produced a total of 38.2 million barrels of oil in 2007, and has been declining steadily. Given that, according to recent US Department of Energy estimates, the US consumes 20.68 million barrels of oil a day, that (1 years worth of pumping) would not even provide us with two days worth of oil. The addition of a few more wells would, as the proverbial saying goes, just be a drop in the bucket.

Source: US Department of Energy Petroleum Basic Statistics
Source: State of California DOGGR 2007 Preliminary Report of Oil and Gas production

See how the GOV defines "reserves"

Sure, here it is:

Proved reserves are estimated quantities that analysis of geologic and engineering data demonstrates with reasonable certainty are recoverable under existing economic and operating conditions.

And while "some people" believe there is more oil, does it really matter? Shouldn't we instead be focusing on the real goal of moving away from oil, and towards other renewable energy sources. I for one, would rather see the money that would be spent trying to find additional oil better spent on finding and developing cheaper and more environmentally friendly renewable alternative energy sources.

Cheers,
Brad