 Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Its just killing me.
The other day at about 3500rpms 65ish started to break up. Thought it was fuel related. Higher rpms it was good, low end pickup and shifting was good. Once past 3500 sputter it was good.
Two days later starts to break up at lower rpms on a longer ride. Decided to break off and head home. Started to break up in all levels. Backfired a few times in the airbox at 70 ish on the way home like it loaded with gas and didn't fire.
Anyhow, I get it home. Clean air filter, drop pingle, pull little filter etc. etc. change gas. Take it out and spit sputter cough etc.
Bring it back and realize something. At idle it snaps right up. Can increase and hold at idle up to 4k or so (wont go higher without a load) without spitting.
Once under a load it breaks down.
Whats up? I don't think its fuel or it would starve at idle when revved. I hope its not electrical again.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
I'm guessing you already checked the imfamous squirrel condom?
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82 |
Replace your spark plugs first.. see how it does.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
The condom is there, may be leaking. I will change the plugs. At idle and high rpms its steady so its not air fuel. I guess under load its dumping more fuel but IMHO 3000 rpm is always 3000 rpm regardless of load. Thats what has me confused.
Will mess around some more.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Replace your spark plugs first.. see how it does.
+1 ... Absolutely the first thing to do when a motor misses under load.
Jack
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62 |
funny though , I still have my original plugs at 19,000 miles and they still look good. All I have done is pull them ,look at them,check the gap , and put them back in.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Missing under load, don't forget to check the plug wires for leakage or high resistance.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
That sounds pretty similar to how mine went, I went through everything and could not find anything to make it go like that. I then booked it into the dealer who gave it me back a day later, they could not find anything. I still do not know to this day what it was that caused it. Mine would just die and then come back again at the time, when it was at the side of the road it ran fine and revved fine, but put it in first gear and bingo it would just splutter and and jerk and even more so when you changed up.
Ray(UK)
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Thats where I am birchr. Plugs look good. Busy today but will swap them out tonight if I can. Took it out this AM. Started fine without a choke, idled like a Swiss watch, a mile in all is good and it starts running like crap. Bring it back and it idles and cranks up like a champ.
Stealership here says the earliest they can look at it is September 21st. Last time they had it for 8 days and found nothing wrong with it. Then again that is after a CDI and a coil incident.
Greggor, I don't know how to do that. Meaning I don't have a clamp or meter to do that.
Didn't even burp on my 2800 miles this summer to the Southwest Triumph Fest.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62 |
Have you looked at the vent line under the bike for obstruction? Or try pulling the tip over valve out and take it for a ride as that could be sticking. If those are OK then check float level , doubt that's the problem but if it were low it would give you trouble under higher demand. Then I would start suspecting something in the ignition circuit such as the pick up coil or pick up coil gap, the CDI , or even the fly wheel moving on the crank messing with the advance also a long shot but possible. Weak connections at any of the electrical plugs in the ignition. I would go with the easy stuff others have suggested first of course. I would suspect a vacuum leak first though since it seems to trouble you under a demand either that or an advance or tank venting problem ,same reason.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82 |
Breaking up under load is most always a secondary ignition (spark plug wires and spark plugs) problem.. there is a very small chance it's your CDI but I kinda doubt it. I did see a Speedmaster once that the CDI was bad causing it to break up in the higher RPM ranges... but not under load.
Change the plugs.. even though they look fine, it's happened to me twice now and it was the plugs both times. A lot of coils and wires have gotten replaced but it's my experience that is not usually the fix.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
lol, it never ends. picked up some plugs. an hour later and I can't find my thin walled 18mm. I HAD IT TO TAKE THEM OUT! I am a mess. Don't ever get old.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 422
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 422 |
Quote:
Don't ever get old.
Ya know Ron, I considered all the options and decided to stick with getting old.  Besides, I'm getting so good at it.
Morituri Nolumus Mori
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Pretty much points to lean mixture or weak ignition. 3500 is just above where the slides normally open, so you might need to add a shim or two under the needles.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Not the plugs. I have it a bit better after cleaning everything I can imagine. Plug wires are next I guess. Thanks for all the feedback. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Rather than purchase wires, can you bring them to your local Auto Pro shop and borrow their ohmmeter. Resistance should be somewhere around 3000 ohms for the length of cable (typical standard is 5000 ohms/foot). Both wires should be similar. If one is a lot higher, it won't provide enough energy to the plug under load to spark. Same holds true for the coils.
Leaking wires would tend to cause a miss in wet humid weather and not necessarily under load.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,073 Likes: 82 |
Quote:
Not the plugs
Drats! woulda bet on that one..
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62 |
Could be so many different things or combination of things, I'm not really suprised you didn't guess it right off. That's all we can really do from here is take an educated guess. Some problems , if described well ,can be nailed down from a distance others you can only guess at and start with the easy stuff then start on the most likely of the more difficult.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Good idea Greggor. After that I am going to quit,take it to a shop and leave it. I don' have the patience anymore to mess with this kind of thing.
Its going to turn out to be something very minor and silly but will probably be a comination of stupid stuff.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Ron, just for chucks and giggles, ride her and when she breaks up: pull the choke out. If she unbreaksup then you have something obstructing jet/port.ie fuel issue. I hate Fay
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
The other day at about 3500rpms 65ish started to break up. Thought it was fuel related. Higher rpms it was good, low end pickup and shifting was good. Once past 3500 sputter it was good.
That's an unusual symptom in my experience. How many miles on the motor? Have you made an changes to the carbs recently?
Quote:
I hope its not electrical again.
What electrical problems have you had?
Quote:
I guess under load its dumping more fuel but IMHO 3000 rpm is always 3000 rpm regardless of load.
Well, you have to open the throttle further to maintain the same RPM when the motor is under load. That, in turn, reduces manifold vacuum, increases combustion pressure, increases fuel draw from the float bowls and dampens the spark. The latter is the reason weaknesses in the ignition system/plugs often show up only under load. That 3500 RPM symptom is very odd though. I'm just not sure what to think about that, although instinct tells me its electrical. Now that you've replaced the plugs, you're entering more expensive territory in terms of trial and error diagnosis. My recommendation would be to take it somewhere they can put it on an engine analyzer. I'll be very interested to know what's causing this, once you get it sorted out.
Jack
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 348
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 348 |
see if you can borrow a known-good set of coils to try em out. I've had bad coils break up under a load before. a bad or wet wire connection can do it too
G
I never wanted to lead, and I never wanted to follow.
I just wanted to ride.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
I am about to surrender. Will probably have it in the shop by this weekend. Found a private shop where the mechanic used to work in BMW Triumph dealership in Waco I think. Will try that route. On the phone he said it sounds like coils if the plugs are not the problem.
Oh, I am just sooooooooooooo excited to buy coils for this thing considering they were done on warranty 18 mos. ago.
I will let you know.
Oh the bike has 20,000 miles Lazyrider.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Found a private shop where the mechanic used to work in BMW Triumph dealership in Waco I think.
Is his shop in Waco, or that's just where he used to work? I would also be interested in locating a good independent in the general area.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. If it turns out to be the coils (again), a letter to Triumph is deserved. New coils should obviously last longer than 18 months.
Jack
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Could be the sensor coil gap issue as that seems to pop up out of nowhere; might as well check that the gap is 0.8mm while you're at it.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Rode it 24 miles yesterday to the shop. Ran perfect for some bits of the road then would start to load up and break up. Just cruising or under load didn't seem to matter. Stopped in traffic had a few small airbox pops and one big pop from the left pipe on initial acceleration.
I can't imagine how it can run at 70MPH perfectly, then not, then perfect again. I hope he calls me up and says, "Hey, its a little hole in a hose". I don't think so. I fear hes going to call me up and say its coils.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,227 Likes: 62 |
Yep , I think he is going to find an ignition problem from what you describe now.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
Quote:
Yep , I think he is going to find an ignition problem from what you describe now.
+1
Coils or the dreaded igniter
Ray(UK)
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Mechanic called today. He said, he gives up. He put the bike back together, re-attached wires to the coils. Fired right up and ran perfectly. Only thing he can figure is the left coil may have been a little loose. ?????
Anyhow back in service with no real repair.
I dunno???? /looks over shoulder fast to see if the Prince is there.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Well Ron, from what I've read around here before, it won't be the first time that that simple loose coil wire theory your new mechanic now kind'a figures it might be would ultimately turn out to be the culprit here.
(hope that's it)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Makes me crazy, well crazier maybe lol
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Mechanic called today. He said, he gives up. He put the bike back together, re-attached wires to the coils. Fired right up and ran perfectly. Only thing he can figure is the left coil may have been a little loose. ?????
Anyhow back in service with no real repair.
I dunno???? /looks over shoulder fast to see if the Prince is there.
Still leaves a bad taste in your mouth though.... 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Still leaves a bad taste in your mouth though....
But it's not the sort of thing one can blame on the mechanic. Diagnostic procedures, expecially those that involve disassembly or adjustment, can sometimes disturb the pieces just enough to cause an intermittant problem to go away for some length of time. It's also possible for the initial work to cause an intermittant problem to become permanently obvious, but that would be too easy and it almost never happens. 
Jack
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
Quote:
But it's not the sort of thing one can blame on the mechanic. Diagnostic procedures, expecially those that involve disassembly or adjustment, can sometimes disturb the pieces just enough to cause an intermittant problem to go away for some length of time. It's also possible for the initial work to cause an intermittant problem to become permanently obvious, but that would be too easy and it almost never happens.
Jack
Yea, that is how I went through 4 CDI's on my bike, they said they cannot find anything wrong with the bike after replacing the igniter.. 4 times though.... 
Ray(UK)
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 121
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 121 |
Mine just started acting odd like this today. I had the same problem about 2 months ago. After a couple times stuttering and even stalling, I couldn't get bike to turn over. I assumed battery, when I went to remove it, I bent the negative cable at the attachment point, and got power. Seems to have been a not so good connection at the battery. If your mechanic unhooked the battery, he may have fixed it by accident?
Good luck
jeff
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 222
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 222 |
Riding over bumps and pot holes can jar the ignition coil wires loose. Had it happen to me, with similar symptoms as you describe. I used die-electric grease on the coil wire ends, and the coil terminals, then used nylon zip-ties to secure the wires to the coils. They have been solid, and no problems since.
'06 Speedmaster, Long TORS, rest is stock (for now)
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
One thing I know. We have way too many electrics issues on these bikes. Its just bad design or bad builds from their suppliers coupled with the lack of desire to make a good product.
I wonder how many cars Triumph would sell if they kept going back to the shop with issues under 10k or 20k. 4 times in the shop for electrics in 20k miles. Rotor, speedometer and timing chain tensioner were the other trips. All but the last two excursions with electrics were warranted but I am not impressed.
If we had an audience we could do a "How many have had their bike in the shop for broken stuff, raise your hand?" Then we could do it for new cars under 20k. A lot of hands would go down.
We should be able to expect the same dependability from our bikes as we get from our cars. Pound for pound with creature comforts and technology the bike cost a whole lot more than the car considering the very basic transportation they provide. One would think they could at least get the electrics and brakes right.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
ok, a little slow here, but crap gas maybe? had the same thing happen on several bikes in the past, especially this time of year with the weird changes to "Seasonal fuel".
Maybe I missed it in the above posts, but hey ya never know...plugs would also be my first guess, then gas.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Breaking up under a load
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
I changed all the gas out Pat. Changed the plugs, cleaned the pingle filters and the hidden carb filter. Now that the coils have been reconnected, runs just fine.
Dealer did the same thing for days and days a while back finding nothing. Now that its running right there is nothing to test or check.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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