Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods Ethanol in gas =poor performance?

I was just curious, has anyone had problems with performance of their bike with all the ethanol in the gas as of lately? All the stations around in town have signs that state they have 10%ethanol in their gas with the exception of one station. I know I went thru a period of when I bought gas at one particular station my engine seemed to ping a little and so I started buying at another and seemed to stop. Just chalked it up to poor gas from the distributor at this particular station.It was handy because this station was real close to home to use but after noticing this several times stopped filling up there. But since the increase in price and all the stink about ethanol and stations posting the pumps there has been alot of people around here locally that have had problems. Would like to hear some thoughts and comments on this. Thanks

That's all we have around here, and I've not had a problem. Last time it was dry enough to ride, I reached a tonne up on a back road without really trying.

I thought i heard or read somewhere that it takes twice as much ethanol to get the same output as gas. I could be wrong though, not an expert on the subject. I think it was also on an episode of OCC where they did the ethanol bike. If that is the case i can see performance lacking.

no probs with performance per se, just that mileage goes down. Ethanol blends are a bunch of cow poop, tell me one good thing that is accomplished by introducing this into the fuel supply.
It isn't cheaper than straight gas...mileage goes down, by real world accounts. Propaganda by ethanol producers state it burns cleaner so mileage increases. I have yet to find anyone that says their mileage has improved. It costs taxpayers huge amounts in subsidies to produce it as well as raising food prices AND gasoline prices...there is no savings at all, you still need to buy the same amount of gas to go the same distance.
Ethanol, yet another dog under the wrong tree.

ethanol actually burns cooler than gas, so if you have forced induction than its actually better. and dont see it hurting performance at all other than mpg's

Frank

Everything around here is 10% ethanol.
I haven't noticed any difference in performance or mileage between the 10% blend and the non-blended that I've used where available (outside of Las Vegas).

None.

Personaly I have noticed no lack of power but a one to two miles a gallon decrease.

Definitely decreases gas mileage. I was getting over 140 miles until hitting reserve on regular ethanol free fuel. (Didn't know it was ethanol free at the time because I didn't know any stations around here used ethanol.) A few weeks ago my mileage suddenly dropped to about 118 on two consecutive tanks of gas. First one I thought maybe I was a little heavier than normal on the throttle. Second tank same thing happened. At the time stations in Oklahoma weren't required to notify their customers if there was ethanol in the fuel. As of this past Monday it became mandatory. Well I searched around until I found a station that had the ethanol free fuel. Mileage is now back up. It costs about 10 cents a gallon more for the ethanol free here; however, it is worth it for the increase in mileage.

One thing in favor of ethanol gas is that it gave CA and other greeny states an excuse to ban MTBE in gas. That stuff was really bad. Oil cos were all for that because they no longer had to pay out a fortune to dispose of it (MTBE was a toxic waste until they started adding it to gas.) and they actually got to raise gas prices, so the people were paying to be allowed to dispose of that crap.

the things we learn on this site, i had no idea (probably because there was no thought of it) that my mpg would decrease because of ethenol. but my work van has lost better than 1-2mpg and i was trying to figure why. i was thinkin "well maybe i been letting her idle a little more because of the heat to keep A/C on) but no, its the ethenol. the stations around here have had it for a couple months now 10% per volume, all the pumps, i havent seen one without that tag on it in a while. and my bike has been running about 2mpg less, my bike has always gotton 50mpg dead on and latley its been runnin at 48 pretty steady. so not only am i getting less mpg, but its costing me more at the pump

Fuel is taxed by the gallon

Less MPG = more fuel consumption

More fuel consumption = more tax collected

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, but it sure worked out in "their" favor.

Corn fuel has created numerous opportunities for political favors and what-fors. Bush gave every country that neighbors Venezuela a lucrative corn fuel contract -- Except... you guessed it - Chavezville.

Around Oklahoma City Valero and some Shell stations are ethanol free. I don't know why some Shell stations have it and some don't. I guess some are just frachises using the Shell name.

Been running ethanol blend here in Iowa for at least 15 years now. No problems with the old Triumph cars and bikes, other antique cars from the 40's and 60s, getting 50 MPG regularly on my 02 America.

I filled up with it(10% ethanol) in CT before I noticed the sticker on the pump. I don't know if it was psychological or not but the bike didn't seem to run as well.

In my case the bike seemed to perform just as well; however, the drop in mileage was definitely noticeable.

Before using ethanol, i would have to pump in 3.2 gallons @160 miles. A few weeks ago i went to 160 miles and it took 4.1 the one time, 3.9 and 4.0 gallons each time. I thought something was wring with the bike til i found a local Shell that didnt have it. I filled up yesterday again @ 155 miles and i was right back to 3.2

One theory I heard from the local lawnmower guru - the alcohol fuel burns hotter, and so he recommends going up a notch on octane, which typically translates to using mid grade if the unit calls for regular. He believes the mid grade will burn cooler than the regular.

On the other hand, he suggested if my mower (bought used) was used to conventional oil, then don't change over to synthetic. I can't allow as how I'd agree with that, but I could be wrong. I typically try to mow when it's the coolest parts of the day, so oil breakdown due to high temps likely wouldn't warrant synthetic anyway.

I've been taking his advice on the mid grade, but I wonder what a proper engineer would have to say on the subject?

Watched something the other day about the ethanol fuel and the damage that it does to the vehicles that it runs in. You see, when they say that it burns cleaner, well, that just means that it produces less emissions. There are a lot of vehicles that have had issues with injectors going bad, oil going bad quicker than normal, etc etc etc. I guess that the ethanol really takes a toll on the oil the most. If you do not follow a strict changing schedule, then better start or you could end up with issues in the long run.
Mark

Reading plugs -
E10 - bone white.
Lead (& ethanol) free premium - sooty black.
This would seem to confirm that optimal A/F ratios differ between the two.

My brother is an ethanol plant engineer in Iowa and he was telling me that there have been a lot of complaints from the fellas last winter that ran ethanol in their snow plows and tractors in regards to not enough power. He didnt say anything about bikes though. Alcohol should burn hotter because of the higher flash point, right? Heck, I dont know.

My friend has an alcohol fueled dragster, 455 cu in engine makes 850 horsepower and man is it wild, shooting flames 20 ft out of the exhausts. Also has a blower and jets the size of dixie cups. There's no question it can make the power, and with his 300 mph runs the performance is there.

It's all about the A/F ratio and with alcohol its 9:1 or lower, our bikes look for something more like 13:1 (only because the 14.7:1 perfect ratio is impossible due to additives in the gasoline). You're just going to have to tweak the carbs a bit to improve the A/F ratio and accept that the volume of fuel input isn't going to translate into the same mileage. Doesn't make it right, just makes it what it is.

The dragster may be running on methanol instead of ethanol. CH3OH makes a better racing fuel than C2H5OH (ethanol) for some strange chemistry reasons.