Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Riding Technique MSF Course - opinion - long

I'm old enough that when I got my automobile license here in PA they asked me if I wanted the motorcycle endorsement on it. Back then, there was no test, you just asked for it and got it. At the time I said no. Dummy me. Four years later I had my first street bike, the laws had changed, and a permit was required. I got one and rode and rode and rode.
I learned a few things the hard way, got taught a lot of myths and tips from older riders, and eventually just rode without a license or permit. They never checked those things back then.
About '79-'80 I quit riding - usual story, wife, kids, responsibilities....

2003 I got the bug and bought my '03 TA. Got a permit good for a year, then another, then another. Finally decided to take the MSF course and make an honest man of myself. Took it, passed it, no problem. Legal.

My course took place in February. During the riding portion on 2 Saturdays it was cold and it was snowing. In my class there were several people who, in my opinion, were there for the wrong reasons. A few of us were already riding and just wanted to get legal. We gravitated to each other and bonded in a way. We knew the hazards and had some stories to swap...
But there were others who were there because:
My husband said he would buy me a Harley if I passed this.
I think riding a bike would make me cool.
My brother gave me a chopper and the cops keep hassling me.
My boyfriend bought me a Harley and said I should do this so I can ride with him.

During the riding portions of the course, Husband's wife actually did ok.
Cool man dumped his 250 cruiser about every other turn. Still passed the course, however.
Chopper boy kept duck-walking around the turns and still passed.
And girlfriend dumped the bike on her leg and left in an ambulance - her knee was about as big as a football by the time they came.

That was a couple years ago. I'm no expert rider, by any stretch, a man's got to know his limitations...

But.... (here's the opinion part}
During this 4 day circus, those of us who actually rode kept saying "Surely the instructors will weed some of these people out" but they never did. Some people are not meant to ride motorcycles. Just like some will never be acrobats or brain surgeons or ballet dancers. The instructors were good, but they never reached that conclusion. They passed everyone. Maybe not the injured-knee girlfriend - I never found that out - but everyone else in that class passed and got their motorcycle endorsement. They are now free to navigate the highways and byways legally.

In today's pc world, maybe the instructors can't tell people that driving a motorcycle is probably not a wise choice for them... but there isn't a whole lot of "safety instruction" involved when you let these people loose on the highway.......

That wasn't the case in my NJ MSF course in 2005. It was cut-throat and plenty of people failed. The instructors were outstanding and the course was worth its weight in gold. In fact, they told everyone that passed they weren't ready for the road, and to practice and be safe when heading out.

Wife did the MSF course, but was unable to shift well enough to pass. Since she rides an auto scooter, she tried to convince MSF to let her use her own bike. No deal, so now she's on a mission to get MSF to offer a scooter course.

State exam is tough to pass here. I went with her and out of 5 - none passed. Second try; out of 7 - only the wife passed. Examiner told several that they weren't cut out for 2 wheels.

There was a girl renting her Honda 250 Rebel ($15) to guys that couldn't handle the course with their big bikes. THAT was funny to watch and she made a pocketful!

I'm just glad I was "grandfathered" many years ago.

The last time I took it it was very strict. In fact the man who ran the course was a former Army drill sgt and he informed us at the start that we would do things his way or it would be the highway.

If he observed someone whom he thought was not paying attention during the riding/learning portion of the course he would stop them and remind them that he would fail them and keep their money for the course and that they would then have to re-enroll and try it again.

I tryed to talk my bro-in-law out of buying a bike he is the type that needs 4 wheels to ride. He got one we went rideing every stop sign or light he woould stall or drop the bike. He took the MSF and crashed their little bikes so bad that they sent him home. He is going to sell the bike He is very accicdent pron. I agree some people do not belong on a bike

I also took the course after a long hiatus of not riding. My background was all off road biking and I thought I should take the MSF beginners course to both learn something and get my license. I'm also in PA and I think you're right about the instructors being lenient. They were very friendly and informative, but it seemed too easy to pass the test. I had a pretty good class. Mixed bag of backgrounds. The only person who failed the test was the "teachers pet" throughout the whole course. She dumped her bike on the emergency quick stop part of the exam. Then got on her 1300cc Yamaha and rode home!
The only perfect score on the four-part final test was a girl, a high-school senior who also had a broken wrist with a cast on. All in all I think the course was well worth the time to take. It's also free in PA!

When I took it (almost two years ago now) There were a couple of people that didnt pass. One was a schoolteacher who needed the endorsement to be able to ride his scooter to work. There was one peron that never showed up for day 2.
The instructors were cool BUT not too cool. No mercy for anyone and everyone was treated equal.

Im glad I took the course.

When my OL took it, about a third of the class failed, including a fool who was asked not to come back ever after he rode the bike into the storage shed and halfway through the back when he forgot how to turn. She passed at the top of the class and is a decent rider.

I took the course back in 2000, same story pretty much rode for a few years semi leagaly back in the early 80's illeagly before that. then took 15 odd years off.

Out of a class of 13 people half(6 and 1/2 hmm) where former riders getting back into it. The rest you descrided.
Yep the wife but in this case the old man had already got her a bike sportster of course. the girlfriend, the cool guy.etc

Of the total class if I remember correctly 6 failed on the final test. The girlfriend crashed twice. Once she forgot to turn and ran straight into the curb. Second she took out another bike. she was asked to leave. The wife failed but that was a surprise, she had done well durring practice and training but froze up on the test. Me I passsed by one point
turns out I went through the "cone weave" backwards. Started in the wrong direction.

Guess it all depends on how honest the instruters are.

in florida, the course is a codified requirement that is tantamount to another tax. Pay, show up and show your voucher to the licensing department. pay again and you now have an endorsement. Perhaps that is why I have yet to bother with the advanced courses...Advanced courses that may have saved some skid marks though. Laundry .. a terrible thing for the missus at times.

I completed the course in PA 3 weeks ago.After 20 years off a bike it reminded me of a few of the basics.The instructors were very knowledgable and out of 12 starters 10 of us passed. For a free course it was worth every penny.

I did not take any course. What I had was my first husband was a excellent rider and taught me how to ride. He taught me 20+ years ago before our kids were born. I was taught to ride the way that they teach in the course. However, I rode for 10+ years without any permit or license (NOT recommended) When my second (and last) husband took me for a first ride, I must have impressed him, because he bought me a Yamaha XS 650 Heritage Special! We both took the course and passed. I was the only woman taking the road test. However, when I was finished he handed me my license and asked me if I had taken the the MSF, which I did not.

However, As my kids got older, the wanted to ride. I insisted that they take the MSF course to learn to ride. (We also had them ride with a licensed rider for 1000 miles, but that is another posting) Several of my friends took the course, as well as my kids.

One thing that I was amazed at during the course is that they did not teach them how to "take off" on a hill!

I wanted to take the "Train the Trainer" course, but I did not have the time.
Cheers, Cindy

Free in PA too, 2 years ago anyway when Wendy took hers.