Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Exhaust TORS vs Tbike ...which offers more power increase?

First, make sure you note that i am talking about the 865 speedmaster. Does anyone know which would give the bigger increase.....Long TORs with the proper jetting or Tbikes with stock jetting ? Of course we all know Tbikes say they require no jetting.

Also, which is quieter and by how much?

johnny johnny johnny,
Quit the darned procrastinating and just buy the Thunderbike pipes. You are scared to spend the $$ I know, I had the long TORs, then modded pipes then SS then finally got the T'pipes. I couldn't be happier. I spent a lot of bux for pipes before finally finding the ones I loved.
Just buy them, you WILL be very satisfied and happy. If you don't like them , it would be no problem at all to resell them here in about 10 minutes.

Ok, but for legal sakes this is just my opinion!!! And we all know about opinions eeh?
Buy the Tpipes, the performance gains are worth it.
The TOR's will give you sound and minimal if any performance gains. The gains would be made with jetting and air flow anyway. The T'pipes give you performance just by bolting them on. This is true. Everyone that has them says so. You can then jet some more and change airflow to increase the gains. Been there, done that. Everyone that has them has been very very happy with them too.
And, no, you will not have to pay any duty, at least I don't know of anyone that did yet.
They look just like the long slash cut stock America pipes too, and they have a removable heat shield. I like the look with no heat shields on, I ran for a year with them on, then took them off, looks nicer to me and has better lines that way. They just don't have the tapered end like most of the Speedmasters have.

Hmm...the TOR's give minimal gain? I wouldn't consider them then. Thats my main concern. As to the jetting with TB's, this is what i don't understand........if you can further improve thier performance by jetting, wouldn't that suggest that with stock jets they are NOT jetted correctly? The only thing i can think of is that they are not correctly jetted with the stock jets, but that they are "close enough". Is that it? If it is, then tell me this......will the stock jets with the TB's on make the bike run leaner or richer than the stock bike/pipes? Sorry if i'm taxing your patience Dinqua, but you seem to be DA MAN when it comes to this stuff.

Ok, it's like this. The T'bike pipes are designed for the ideal intake/output conditions on a stock 790cc BA/SM/Bonnie/T100. But...this is measured strictly by hp ahnd torque. You actually get the MOSYT hp and torque from a leaner motor than a rich one. So, too lean? Don't know for sure. Maybe someone with a stock setup can pull their plugs and tell us what they look like. Or even a G/A analysis would be even better.
Now, if you open the air up, you will need to balance the flow by flowing the gas more, larger main jets. This is not to say it is guaranteed to improve the performance, in fact T'Bike says their setup is perfect and any changes may actually decrease the performance. However, my past dyno runs and seat of the pants tells me otherwise.
What's that mean? Ok, if you get, for example, a 28% increase in hp and torque by bolting them on with stock setup this is the baseline. Then, if you remove the airbox and rejet accordingly to get the most effeecient fuel burn, you may experience another 10% increase due to more gas/air burning faster = more faster down the road.
Make any sense to ya? PapaDean is a far wiser man when it comes to carb operation so maybe he can chime in here too. I just now that my Thunderbike pipes haul some serious butt and when I went to bigger jets and such it hauled even more butt faster. Then the big bore, holy cc's it hauls large butts up hills even faster now.
Have you read this Article on tuning exhaust systems ? It's a good reference and explains the relationship between the effeciency of motors with exhaust systems and how they are properly tuned using valve timopng, exhaust length and header dimensions. All of this is how T'Pipe builds their pipes. In theory, you have room for improvement as the valve timing and exhaust physical attributes are constant in the formulas.

Gotcha. Ok, so i guess then the 865 is probably in need of jetting more so than the 790 they were designed for. Still apparently you can run them even with the 865 with no jetting because other are and say they work great.

it'll be a few weeks before i can order pipes, but when i do i'll probably still have to go with TB's. Thanks Dinqua.

By the way, anyone know of any sound files of the Tbike pipes besides that lousy 2 second mpeg thats posted at the Tbikes site and also here?

I have yet to hear a decent computer sound bite of any pipes that do them any justice. I know it
s hard to do, but I think everyone should hear them in person for whatever pipe they want. That way there are no surprises. I know people that bought the D&Ds and sold them cause they are obnoxiously loud.

edited cause I'm slicdestic.

I'm sure. But i'd still like to hear one. That tbikes mpg os so fast it's over before you even hear it.

Your profile doesn't list your location. If your near the DC area you can listen to mine. If your withing 200 miles of the DC area and there are nice roads between here and there you can listen to mine.

Hugh

Thanks for the offer. Wish i could. But we're on opposite coasts. maybe at least you could give me an exact time that you'll fire it up so i can go outside and listen....if i hear it i'll know they're louder than i wanted.

Have you seen any dyno data for both pipe sets? Before spending the bucks I'd want some stats to show real, not just perceived gains. The short offroads with K&N filters and rejetting on my TBA gave me a real power increase. I had the carbs tuned with a dyno to eliminate a lot of guess work. Just a thought.

Buy the TBikes and if you don't like them, I will buy them from you. You have my word. I was going to wait until spring but if there was a discounted used pair available I would jump on them immediately.

Cool. Let me know. I won't hold my breath though. I think you will be leaving them on.

Hi Fellas, I`m just having a long overdue through some of the posts in here and have been reminded that the temporary soundbyte we uploaded has now been there way too long. We have a couple of guys with an America 800 and a Speedmaster 900 having pipes fitted tommorrow and will do our best to upload some decent footage and soundbytes.
Cheers,
Graeme
www.Thunderbike.co.nz