 ? about my cage
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I have a 2000ford explorer sport with a front end problem. When I hit 70mph the front end starts shaking. It kind of feels like I'm driving over cobble stone. I thought it may be the tires,(needed new ones anyway) so I replaced them. NO difference. I was told that poor alignement wouldn't cause the shaking. Do you guys have any idea what it could be?
pain is temporary, pride is forever.
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Re: ? about my cage
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Either it is balance or could be worn shock's. Do you have a lot of snow there? Are your wheels impacted with slush or snow? My wife experienced something similar recently, and it turned out to be snow impacted in the wheels.
2007 Custom America with BUBs
I make my own parts cause I cant afford to buy theirs.
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Bent wheel, bad tie rod ends/draglink,worn control arm bushings,bad tire/out of balance.
Rule out bad tire since you just changed them and I would hope had them balanced. Next most likely would be the bent wheel.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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I would take it to Firestone and have a free alligament check done on it. If the tech knows what he is doing he will find the problem. Only showing up at 70 would rule out a bent rim for me.. I would lean more to tie rod ends and A Arm bushings.
Dont like what you see??? Big red X in the top right of your screen will fix it!
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Re: ? about my cage
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If the drag link, tie rod ends are all tight, tires balanced I would spin the wheels and check for the bent rim.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Re: ? about my cage
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Old Hand
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A friend has a similar problem on a VW Super Beetle. It turned out to be a bad steering damper.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: ? about my cage
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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warped rotor will do it too.
we should do this every weekend!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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most of the time a warped rotor only shows if you apply the breaks. The bent rim sometimes won't show up at lower speeds, it all depends on how it's bent and how badly bent.
As Matt said I also wouldn't rule out the front end alignment.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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pain is temporary, pride is forever.
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Re: ? about my cage
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Rotational mass out of balance,tire, rim etc will appear in a 10 mph window (like between 70-80). You don't say if it goes away after a certain speed. A bent rim probably,but not necessarily,wouldn't balance with the new tires. You could rotate tires (front to rear) to see if the vibration moves. Also, you don't mention how many miles you have on your car. If you've never had any front end work, you're due. Have a thorough front end check by someone who knows what they're doing. Those vehicles are famous for wheel bearing problems as they get a little long in the tooth. I'm sure it's 4wd, check axle joints. I can't help but wonder how the tires wore and whether or not it's all over the road. A good alignment will not solve a vibration but can't be done unless the front end is tight, so they'll let you know exactly what you need.
Good luck!
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Thats I why I said the way it's bent Paul,remember this is what I do for a living. A bent rim will definately bubble balance and if not bent too badly will spin balance then showing up as a shake or vibration at only higher speeds. Normally if spin balanced it will take an out of the ordinary amount of weight to get it to balance thus indicating a need to check the rim. Trouble is it isn't always a bent rim sometimes its a tire made under low quality control so the mechanic balancing it may have been lazy and not bothered to check for a bent rim as long as it balanced.
LOL I just typed all that then reread your post and you are correct about the 10 to 15 mph window I misread it as after 10mph. The axles/wheel bearings are a good thought and if that is the cause fix it now since for a wheel bearing to cause a shake like that they must be really bad.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Exactly, You and Matt, ditch_dr, are dead on the money here. Everyone seemed to be saying the same thing. This is a great site for questions like this one. Invariably, someone will have had this problem or have fixed one like it. If we're all giving the same info we're probably at least close to right. I've been a master tech for years and I'm now in charge of a huge fleet of vehicles we've got 20 explorers of various vintages with up to 300,000 miles on them(those ones are real rough). Everyday I try to learn something new, reminds me how much I don't know. I hope we get some feedback as to what fixed this vehicle but it may well be :I got the estimate and decided to live with the vibration. I hope not.
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Loquacious
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may sound stupid, but check in your wheels to see if you have any ice or snow built up anywhere in there...it'll throw it outta balance at high speeds and shake the whole car.
Mark
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Re: ? about my cage
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Quote:
may sound stupid, but check in your wheels to see if you have any ice or snow built up anywhere in there...it'll throw it outta balance at high speeds and shake the whole car.
Not stupid at all! # 1 cause of winter vibrations in snow season and my first thought. The only confounding info is that he had tires installed and the vibration was still there.
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
I hope we get some feedback as to what fixed this vehicle but it may well be :I got the estimate and decided to live with the vibration. I hope not.
Front end problems have been known to be terminal at 70 mph so the fix is the thing, there is no safe "living with it".
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: ? about my cage
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope we get some feedback as to what fixed this vehicle but it may well be :I got the estimate and decided to live with the vibration. I hope not.
Front end problems have been known to be terminal at 70 mph so the fix is the thing, there is no safe "living with it".
Oh sure there is, haven't you ever been behind that guy doing 50 mph on the interstate? 
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I would like some feedback as well on what the problem turned out to be.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Just saw this post. I had the same problem with my 98 last year, as soon as I got it over 75 it would get the 'speed wobbles' I had to change lanes at speed and it felt like I was on two weels.... different feeling than on the bonnie. Took it to the shop thinking it was the shocks, turned out the tierod was brokem, my mech told me this happens alot to the exploders. it was an expensive fix, the rotors were shot too, and unfortunately I was paying SW CT prices.
Hold my beer......
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Re: ? about my cage
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Bar Shake
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You got the tires replaced. And the problem has not changed a whit?
Unless you went to "BillyBob's we be tires an stuff" I would expect that they have modern balancing equipment that would be able to detect a bent rim.
Most likely not a rotational issue, though there is the possibility.
I would check for worn suspension/steering components. And if that turns out to be the problem, then I would suggest that a complete front end overhaul is in order.
Last edited by bigbill; 02/22/2008 4:36 PM.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: ? about my cage
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Loquacious
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alignment will NOT cause a wobble!!!! something loose or out of balance will cause a wobble and if its only happening at a certian speed then most likely it is balance, i say most likely.
ENJOY!!!!! NEWT!!!!!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Well she goes in tomorrow so we will see. Here is my problem, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I no longer really trusts auto mechanics. I have been using the same guy since high school and it has been getting worse and worse with him. Too many reasons to list. So I expect to bring my little green machine into the shop and this guy is going to tell me the problem is "whatever" he can easily replace on a saturday, I'll get her back and it wont be fixed. Did I mention that he wont even take her for a test ride after the job is done. I know I sound like a "glass is half empty kind of guy" but that is just the way things seem to be going lately.
pain is temporary, pride is forever.
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 Re: ? about my cage
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Loquacious
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The good news is it's not the tires. The bad news is, any part that spins or pivots in your front end can cause a wobble if it is too worn. Wheel bearings, suspension bushings, steering linkages... You need the proverbial honest mechanic  to systematically go through the front end. My sympathies.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
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Re: ? about my cage
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Man, surely in NJ there's a hot rod club nearby. Ask one of the old guys who does his work, there's your mechanic. Cruisin' Classics
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Spin balancer doesn't detect a bent rim in most cases just tells you where the weight goes.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Well she goes in tomorrow so we will see. Here is my problem, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I no longer really trusts auto mechanics. I have been using the same guy since high school and it has been getting worse and worse with him. Too many reasons to list. So I expect to bring my little green machine into the shop and this guy is going to tell me the problem is "whatever" he can easily replace on a saturday, I'll get her back and it wont be fixed. Did I mention that he wont even take her for a test ride after the job is done. I know I sound like a "glass is half empty kind of guy" but that is just the way things seem to be going lately.
You need a new wrench.
If you know the guy's going to screw you, and you go to him anyway. WTF????
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: ? about my cage
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Quote:
Quote:
Well she goes in tomorrow so we will see. Here is my problem, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I no longer really trusts auto mechanics. I have been using the same guy since high school and it has been getting worse and worse with him. Too many reasons to list. So I expect to bring my little green machine into the shop and this guy is going to tell me the problem is "whatever" he can easily replace on a saturday, I'll get her back and it wont be fixed. Did I mention that he wont even take her for a test ride after the job is done. I know I sound like a "glass is half empty kind of guy" but that is just the way things seem to be going lately.
You need a new wrench.
If you know the guy's going to screw you, and you go to him anyway. WTF????
I am going to a new guy. My point was, they all seem to screw you. 
pain is temporary, pride is forever.
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Re: ? about my cage
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Spin balancer doesn't detect a bent rim in most cases just tells you where the weight goes.
Geez Ian. We were spin balancing in the '60s, really old technology.
Dynamic balancing will detect bent rims.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: ? about my cage
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Yeah, seems to be the case. Ask around, check the BBB. And look for the ASE emblem  prominently displayed on the business and the techs.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I posted before and then deleted it because I didn't want to get into a big discussion about spin balancing that I have been doing since the early 80s. They do NOT always detect a bent rim. They will catch badly bent rims. If the mechanic is on top of things he will catch nearly all but still not all. I am well aware this is old tech. I went to school and am a trained auto mechanic. Of course back then HEI was the new thing and we still used carbs on almost everything. I now bubble balance since I don't have the cash for a spin balancer. I do however have a nice Hoffman rim clamp tire machine with the air operated helper arms to do low profile and run flat tires as well as those stupid 21" 22" etc fancy wheels. I have a plastic duckbill on it and it has the air operated arm so the bill is held about 1/4" off the wheel so nothing actually contacts the wheel during the changing procedure. It does anything from small tractor tires to motorcycle tires.
EDIT: Guess to put it simply none of the spin balancers I used had a flashing red light that said bent on it so you could balance almost anything if you put enough weight on it.
Last edited by The_Dog33; 02/24/2008 3:02 AM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Learned Hand
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I concur, thats why I always look at the edge of the rim while a rim is spinning. If there's any ? I release the assembly after I balance it,reorient it about 90 degrees, and make sure it replicates to zero. Ever see a slipped belt, sometimes they'll balance to zero. "Always" is a funny thing "sometimes" is more likely. I know when people come into my shop with ?s and I say "sometimes" I come off as noncommital but I'm more concerned with getting the vehicle fixed correctly the first time. Which,unfortunately doesn't always happen,(sometimes it does).
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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I want in on the pool. I say its a tie rod or a steering gear. What you are describing sounds like what we 2nd gen dodge cummins owners lovingly refer to as "death wobble".
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: ? about my cage
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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i say it's a drive shaft issue. the front and rear (on some models) are 2 piece and will fail. i was told ford stopped making rear drive shafts for my '96 exploder sport (2-door) and it would have cost more to have one made than the truck was worth so i sold it to an illegal immigrant. he said "all fords shimmy like this?" i told him i didn't notice it. 
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." - Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus
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Re: ? about my cage
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Learned Hand
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I had a ford pickup do that when travelling highway speed and hit a bump, the front end would shakelike the wheels were wobbling left to right really fast. turned out it was the steering dampener but not all cars use a dampener.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Re: ? about my cage
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Ford had a huge issue with that on mid and late nineties trucks. To anyone who has never experienced the feel, it is like a tank slapping wobble, only in your truck. Most of the affected vehicles didn't come with a stock stabilizer; but the installation of an aftermarket one(like Rancho)always solved this problem. You could always tell if that went bad. You'd hit a bump and it'd take the wheel right out of your hands. 
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Oh, on the bet, I say he needs everything, tie rod ends,ball joints,control arms, bushings. I believe that thing's rack and pinion, so no drag link,etc.(although the rack is probably leaking). And axles if they're u-joint style(I forget when they went constant velocity. While they're in there it'd be crazy not to do brake rotors loaded calipers and hoses (known for failure). I bet the hubs are junk too, if his luck is anything like mine!
HOPEFULLY, it's just a bent rim. Throw the spare on and call it a day.
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Quote:
i say it's a drive shaft issue. the front and rear (on some models) are 2 piece and will fail. i was told ford stopped making rear drive shafts for my '96 exploder sport (2-door) and it would have cost more to have one made than the truck was worth so i sold it to an illegal immigrant. he said "all fords shimmy like this?" i told him i didn't notice it.
Strangler
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Re: ? about my cage
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Ian. You seem to have missed my point entirely.
Dynamic balancing is not spin balancing, and yes, a good eye can detect a bent rim with a spin (but not always).
Dynamic (computer aided) will catch it every time.
FYI: I too am a trained auto tech. Held a NIASE (before they changed it to just ASE) master tech cert before I let it expire when I went into construction equipment.
I still keep up.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: ? about my cage
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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OK got ya, I misunderstood you. We call both methods dynamic and computer assisted we called computer assisted.I thought you were telling me spin balancing will automaticly catch a bent rim every time. I can usually catch them the same way Paul does. I was kinda leaning to tierods and if that thing is rack and pinion the inner isn't a job for a back yard mechanic it takes a special tool. Lower ball joints usually don't cause a shake they just fail all at once if the inspection mechanic doesn't catch them.I had only mentioned a bent rim as 1 possible cause.Ford has a notoriously weak suspension system. They tend to give up handling and load capacity in favor of smooth ride.Not sure on the year you have but the 4X4 axle set up on the earlier models was poor at best.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ? about my cage
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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 Regional idiomatics strike again  .
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: ? about my cage
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Quote:
Regional idiomatics strike again .
Who ya callin ' an Idiomatic ?? 
We prefer " colloqualisms" . Sounds innocuous anyway . 
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